Good coaches put their players in situations to be successful. If Lanning is only smart enough to learn one play set he shouldn't have been recruited at QB. Football is pretty similar regardless of your formation.
Who's calling the shots?
- Thread starter CycloneBob
- Start date
Lanning makes a back shoulder throw- perfect throw
Richardson makes a back shoulder throw- he can't lead his WR
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Sam has had three years and not once has he thrown a ball to the sidelines with that velocity. Hell most of the time he doesn't even throw a spiral. I like Sam but next guy in. Also it wasn't a horrible throw, maybe a bad decision but the throw was NFL level.
I have watched that replay a few times. You stated it was a perfect throw. I disagree. It wasn't even a perfect back shoulder throw.
Sam has made the same back shoulder throw at least three times this year. Once against Iowa, once against Toledo and once against KU. OK believe he made two in the Toledo game. Lazard dropped one that was reviewed and there was another. I think I am missing a couple more as well.
I believe Sam's were in the 15-22 yard range. Yes Lanning had more velocity but Sam's gave Lazard more opportunity to time his stop and were when a DB was deeper that the WR.
Lannings was when Lazard had half a step and the DB could make a play.
Lazard made a great play on the ball, fought of a tackle and scored.
Lanning does have a cannon though and would love to see more of him.
Here is a pretty good article about how and when a back shoulder throw is thrown
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_26653872/nfl-airballs-qbs-like-burning-dbs-pass-thats
Things to note
-throw it backside with little zip
-throw when DB is playing over the top
-QBs are reluctant when the defender stays even
-WR gives the sly look to trigger the throw
-originally designed for about 15 yards
None of those really happened on the Lanning TD pass
-pass had a lot of zip
-DB was not over the top
-DB was even
-Lazard was looking for the ball for ten yards
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.... you ever watch the immaculate reception... it was a beyond terrible throw that eventually went for a touchdown... bad throws go for touchdowns too....
Or his ability made up for the small margin of error Rhoads is always touting. I wish so hard Sam was the guy. He's not. If that's a bad throw what does a good Lanning throw look like?
Ummm yes. Option, zone read, power run, certain throws, those things change. Otherwise its all the same. If you don't know your formations probably better not play D1 football.
Lets say you're in a formation with 3 receivers and 2 running backs. Yes in any given play you could hand off the ball to either running back, you could zone read, you could throw the ball to one of three receivers or to the 2 running backs etc.... of course each of those 5 potential receivers could be running multiple different routes and you have to know on which play which running back will be running to your left, right, or on a pitch to the left or right, which receiver will be running a hook or a stop and go.... and you of course have to be able to tell if the defense is in man or zone, what type of zone, where in that zone is going to get you a free receiver, is a blitz coming, if so from where should you keep one of those backs in to pick it up etc...
If there has ever been one player who got more slack than they deserve at ISU, it's Sam. He has had dozens of bad decisions and poor throws that get ignored. Instead people bring up the one throw he had X amount of games (seasons) ago as proof that he is a big 12 caliber QB. It's nothing personal but we've seen Sam's ceiling, he has actually improved big time over last year but even at his peak, he's average at best.
Ok, thats true for every play of the game, I guess I'm missing your point. I was responding to the notion that Lanning was unable to run the offense to Mangino's liking and that is why his playing time and play choices are small. If 3 years isn't enough to be ready to run at least a few formations then IDK what to tell you.
He threw the ball to the where only Allen could make a play, otherwise it's probably incomplete. That's pretty much the definition of the a good throw on the sidelines. Whether or not it was a check off to that throw, or if it was a throw that was called is irrelevant. I would argue if Allen had a step on the DB then it should have been a Deep route. If he was even then the back shoulder throw is the correct one. Whether or not Allen knows its coming is another story. There's a ton of conjecture here. Also, as far as comparing Richardson to Lanning, Sam wouldn't have been able to make that same throw. Lanning made the decision and put the ball where it needed to be. Yes Allen made a great play, but that wouldn't have happened if Sam were in there.
Let me start by saying that I agree Lanning should play more. Heck, if he started the rest of the year i'm OK with that.
The bolded part is my minor quibble. We don't KNOW for a fact where the receiver is supposed to be on every throw Sam (or Lanning) tosses. We don't know what the initial call at the line of scrimmage was... if Sam (or Lanning) changed it... if a receiver didn't pick that up... or if Sam (or Lanning) flat out shanked the pass.
We have no real way of knowing whether or not Sam is a B12 caliber QB because all of the teams he started for weren't B12 caliber from the coaches on down (except the receivers). For Sam's entire tenure as a QB here he has been trying to win in the B12 with a less than B12 team. I'd be willing to bet that if we put Sam on as Tech's starting QB he'd look a hell of a lot more like a B12 caliber QB than he does now. That is my point.
Your first sentence isn't correct. What you are saying is that in order for Sam to "deserve" some slack is that he needs to overcome playing on a crappy TEAM. He needs to be better than B12 caliber because his teammates/coaches sure aren't.
He gets slack form the coaches but not from the fans. I disagree about people bringing up one throw or whatever. That is crap. People regurgitate what they have seen from the past and make every bad throw into a game loser.
Sam was responsible for the failure of 1 maybe two series out of seven that ended without a score on saturday. Yet fans blame him for the ineffectiveness of the offense the last three quarters. He had a handful of bad passes but not much more. Guess what...every QB has a handful of bad passes.
I don't see a thread ragging Montgomery for getting knocked on his *** on 3rd and 3 and killing a drive. Montgomery, Bunderage and Lazard have been inconsistent blockers all season and their blocking has cost iSu some big plays. It isn't new and they have done it for multiple seasons.
I don't see people ragging on Bundrage for the go route where Sam threw a perfect throw to the sideline but Bundrage for some reason gradually ran the route two yards in. But then most think Sam threw a ****** ball. Reality is Bundrage was two yards off and Sam threw the ball right where it should be thrown just inside the sideline.
I don't see people ragging on Bundrage for his false start on 2nd and 4, then the dropped ball from Lazard on 3rd and 9, and then the hold on Philbert and the slip on Thomas on the screen that was well blocked.
Warren has fumbled in the red zone twice this season. One most likely costs us a win. The other cost us a great drive in a back and forth game. No comments.
Here are the failed drives and why they failed
2nd quarter
13 play-57 yard -Series ends with the Warren fumble on TCU's 18
3 play 3 yards- Sam missed Ryen on first down, three yard run on second Sam hurried and throws it away at Warrens feet on 3rd Poor protection punt from the ISU 33
3rd quarter
4 play-33 yards- 2nd and six Sam sacked on Corner blitz trying to go deep and a fumble on TCU's 42
8 play- 48 yards- Montgomery gets knocked on his *** on 3 and 3 otherwise Wesley gets the first down and much more. Punt form TCU's 45
4th quarter
13 play 49 yards- 3rd and 9 Lazard doesn't complete the catch to the ground that was originally ruled a fumble. 4th down, Thomas slips on a well blocked screen and Philbert called for holding. TO on downs on TCU 26
11 play-43 yards- 2nd and four and Bundrage false starts. Run the ball twice. 4th and 3 and Campos false starts. Incomplete pass TO on Downs at the TCU
People want to think that a QB is going to make all those games winners...great. I tend to look at all the warts and think it will take more. \
Sam had three incompletes in the second quarter one to Bundrga in the endzone that was well thrown but he defender had Bundrages right hand and no PI. The overthrow to Ryen that would have gone for 10 yards max and one to Warren where Sam was pressured and threw it away at Warren's feet to avoid the sack. One bad pass in the whole second quarter. BTW he completed three. He had three incomplete passes in the first quarter and yet iSu scored 21 points. Why didn't iSu score int he second? A fumble maybe?
Sam did not have one incomplete pass in the third quarter and only one that was off target and that got called for PI.
Now maybe Lanning has "it" and he elevates everyone's game so the missed blocks don't happen, the drops don't happen, the penalties at critical times don't happen. I am not being a smart ***. Maybe he has "it" that gets everyone to believe.
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Not doubting this at all and look up my posts, I'm far from a "Lanning should be starting" guy, but seriously, does this really matter that much anymore? I mean could it be that our playbook is too difficult in general to understand and that's why we suck so bad? I mean at this point, no matter who is QB, I'd like to simplify the playbook and focus on running good routes, opening holes for the backs and just playing some football.
Seems to me our coaches try to outsmart everyone with our playbook, instead of saying, "Hey, that worked, let's keep using that.
