Game of Thrones Season 6

[Mr Janny]

I'm going to narrow it down to just these two:

6 - I don't remember it saying in the books anywhere (or the show) that you had to consummate the the marriage in order for it to be valid. It was in front of the 7, it was legitimized by his house (since none remained of hers at the time).

7 - People have been trying this logic for a week, but it's silly. She never said anything about anything to Jon other than to wait - that doesn't mean that she knew anymore than it means she didn't. And yet she somehow managed to meet up with Littlefinger (because she was at the Battle of the Bastards with him) at just the right time, and it just HAPPENED to be during the middle of a battle, and just HAPPENED to be at the exact moment that Bolton's forces were decimated and he could sweep in and win? Come on. That doesn't seem too inconvenient?

Yes it does. Margaery's marriage to Renly was considered null because it was never consummated. GRRM makes a point of noting that Joff doesn't want sloppy seconds.

 

[boone7247]

She was already with Littlefinger on the battlefield when the Vale Knights charged. If she was worried about which side they would take, why would she potentially put herself in harm's way, by being right next to the army that might betray her? Doesn't make sense. It's a plot hole in the story. No two ways about it. There's no plausible explanation for why she wouldn't have let him know ahead of time.

I guess that is why she apologized for it in the next episode. I still think it had more to do with she didn't know how to explain why the KoV would come. Afterwards with a win no one is going to question that.

 

[Mr Janny]

I guess that is why she apologized for it in the next episode. I still think it had more to do with she didn't know how to explain why the KoV would come. Afterwards with a win no one is going to question that.

Why would it be hard to explain? The Lord of the Vale is their first cousin. Hoster Tully married his daughters to Starks and Arryn's specifically to join their houses together. Even if she wished to keep the Littlefinger stuff secret, that's an easy explanation for why they might be coming, and why she might write to them requesting help.

 

[Gilberto]

In theory, the dragons could wipe out the entire lot of white walkers right? Also, could the Unsullied or Dothraki be using Valyrian steel or shields?

 

[brett108]

I just read through a lot of pages of comments. I'm going to try to contribute.

1) In the Tower of Joy scene Lyana clearly says "His name is Aerys." She's saying that Jon Snow's name is really Aerys, after his grandfather, the mad king.

2) While Jon and Sansa are not brother and sister, they are cousins and they have lived their whole lives as brother and sister. Anyone who envisions some kind of romantic scenario between them is crazy.

3) Jon might be a bastard but who cares at this point? He IS the King in North and the entire Northern power, plus the Aerie is behind him. He legitimizes himself.

4) Related to #2, Sansa is never going to marry again unless it is completely on her terms. She will never allow someone else to have power over her.

5) Dany is going to marry someone. It will be a political marriage, not one for love. She and Jon make perfect sense. He wants to stop the undead, she will help make that happen.

6) Tyrion is not married to Sansa. They did not consummate that marriage. Also, Tyrion will never love another. Much the same way that Sansa has been damaged emotional, so has Tyrion by Tywin.

7) I don't believe Sansa knew exactly when the KoV were coming. She was urging Jon to wait but she didn't know for how long. Yes, television has horrible coincidences.

8) There is no conflict with Sansa and Jon. Look at how happy she is for him when they are proclaiming him King in the North. LF might try but she is not dumb Sansa anymore. She is much more cunning. Look at the way she rebuffed LF in the Godswood. She never told him no and she was gentle. She even said something about how it is a nice picture he has in his head.

9) Tyrion was an amazing Hand of the King.

10) Why would Dany land in Dorne and then slog up the continent? There's only one place she is landing and that is Dragonstone. Followed shortly after by King's Landing.

11) There is no Cersei's alliance. She has run out of time. She is the ruler of nothing except the Western Heartlands, maybe the Storm Lands, the Riverlands and King's Landing. All of that means very little when it comes to armies. Cersei's problem is that she has always had Tywin's ruthlessness without his long term strategic vision.

12) No way Littlefinger can leave. He declared for the Starks.

13) I think we can firmly put away all the various Arya theories. There is no reason for her to declare, to an empty room and Walder Frey, that she is Arya Stark. Look for Arya to have somehow attached herself to Jaime's camp and make her way to KL.

Dude you just posted a long list of opinions stated as facts. Take it easy bud. GRRM would laugh at all the brazen assumptions you are making. Dorne will likely be the first landing location, but then she will muster the Tyrells. That gives her two great houses. They will by then have word of the new northern alliance and will no doubt treat with Jon Snow, and likely the Vale. There is no point in her rushing to Kings Landing if it costs her men and time. She can build an overwhelming force and clear the board.

 

[Mr Janny]

In theory, the dragons could wipe out the entire lot of white walkers right? Also, could the Unsullied or Dothraki be using Valyrian steel or shields?

Not likely. Valyrian steel is supposed to be super rare.

 

[brett108]

In theory, the dragons could wipe out the entire lot of white walkers right? Also, could the Unsullied or Dothraki be using Valyrian steel or shields?

Lots of hocus pocus north of the wall according to Benjen and everything we've seen, so I doubt it will be that simple. I wonder if Jon is immune to dragonfire as well.

A

 

[Orin02]

Dude you just posted a long list of opinions stated as facts. Take it easy bud. GRRM would laugh at all the brazen assumptions you are making. Dorne will likely be the first landing location, but then she will muster the Tyrells. That gives her two great houses. They will by then have word of the new northern alliance and will no doubt treat with Jon Snow, and likely the Vale. There is no point in her rushing to Kings Landing if it costs her men and time. She can build an overwhelming force and clear the board.

Uhh. Do you assume that anytime you see something with numbers in front of it that it is a fact? Your assumption is that I am saying these are facts. These are my comments. Nowhere do I claim to be omniscient. And this whole freaking thread is brazen assumptions or theories. That is what makes it worth arguing/ debating. You then proceed to make a bunch of brazen assumptions. You "take it easy bud."

 

[burn587]

Lots of hocus pocus north of the wall according to Benjen and everything we've seen, so I doubt it will be that simple. I wonder if Jon is immune to dragonfire as well.

A

The night's king will have some monsters of his own that will probably somewhat rival the dragons. We still haven't seen the giant ice spiders yet.

 

[boone7247]

Why would it be hard to explain? The Lord of the Vale is their first cousin. Hoster Tully married his daughters to Starks and Arryn's specifically to join their houses together. Even if she wished to keep the Littlefinger stuff secret, that's an easy explanation for why they might be coming, and why she might write to them requesting help.

I guess the hard part is the fact they came North long before they were asked. LF is the only logical explanation. And does she want to explain that. I am just bringing an idea. The main reason it was done was for the effect of Jon losing a battle and the KoV (Sansa) saving his ***.

 

[CycloneWarning]

I don't see the Vale fighting for Cersei. 1) Littlefinger doesn't technically have the power to order the troops down there and how he manipulated Robin into doing it to aid Sansa was Robin's crush for her (which I believe she will use to to bring down Littlefinger) 2) Little finger isn't going to put his army into harms way like that, he's much more likely to wait for the chaos and try to take out whoever is left standing

I also don't see Jon coming down to Kings Landing or her going to Winterfell to ask for his help.

I do think we're likely to see Euron align with Cersei (and there may be a marriage proposal to him in exchange for his help) but ultimately I think it will be Jamie who ends the war by killing his sister.

The wall is broken in the last episode of next season setting up the final season.

It's a nitpick, but amazing that Varys has time to go from Meereen and back, put together an alliance between Dany and Dorne/Highgarden, and yet Qyburn and Cersei have no clue that a massive fleet/army and 3 dragons are bearing down on them.

A Euron/Cersei alliance and possible marriage does make a lot of sense. Cersei has nothing except Jaime's army, and is no match for the force about to set upon her. But I can also see a great sea battle between Euron and Dany. Because if Dany's fleet makes it to landfall, Euron's fleet is basically worthless to Cersei as the battle will be on land, and there can't be that many Pykemen left (in fact, asking for 1000 ships seems a stretch), since they got their *** kicked in the North.

Plus, I think they need to kill off a lot of Dothraki at sea. Otherwise, between the Unsullied, the Tyrell army, the Dothraki, and Dornish army, the numbers are too far off for any resistance to be believable.

Maybe Euron attacks at sea, maybe a storm. But something bad will happen to Dany early next season.

 

[The_Architect]

Taking a bit of a pivot here but I hope they are setting up Samwell to be the Grand Maester once all the dust settles.

 

[Mr Janny]

I guess the hard part is the fact they came North long before they were asked. LF is the only logical explanation. And does she want to explain that. I am just bringing an idea. The main reason it was done was for the effect of Jon losing a battle and the KoV (Sansa) saving his ***.

I agree. It was done the way it was done because it made for good TV, not because it was actually plausible or believable. It absolutely represents a plot hole, but thankfully it's one that can be written off as a relatively minor weak spot in a show that has been pretty well free of them.

 

[Angie]

Yes it does. Margaery's marriage to Renly was considered null because it was never consummated. GRRM makes a point of noting that Joff doesn't want sloppy seconds.

But wasn't that just for the purpose of convincing Joffrey? Renly was dead, it wasn't a matter of IF she could marry Joffrey. It's if he wanted to or not, I thought.

 

[Angie]

Taking a bit of a pivot here but I hope they are setting up Samwell to be the Grand Maester once all the dust settles.

We were talking about the Sam storyline last night. It feels so "who cares?" at this point. It takes years to become a maester; presumably there is not that kind of time left before the battle for humanity. I'm sure him ganking the Valyrian steel from his dad will play a part, but I don't see how when he's in Oldtown.

 

[Mr Janny]

Taking a bit of a pivot here but I hope they are setting up Samwell to be the Grand Maester once all the dust settles.

The problem with that is that it takes a long, long time to become a Maester, let alone the Grand Maester. I think Sam's purpose in the plot is to find the secret weapon they can use against the Others, some long lost book in that giant library, that gives them an advantage. And his father will probably come looking for him at some point. Sam will probably kill him, or defeat him in some way, to put a bow on that little side story, and complete his story arc.

Maybe they'll do some kind of "20 years later" post ****** scene ala Harry Potter, and show how things turned out, and he'll be Grand Maester.

 

[Mr Janny]

But wasn't that just for the purpose of convincing Joffrey? Renly was dead, it wasn't a matter of IF she could marry Joffrey. It's if he wanted to or not, I thought.

That's how they sold it to the smallfolk, as well. That's also why Tywin was all up on Tyrion to consummate with Sansa. If it isn't consummated, it doesn't count.

 

[Mr Janny]

We were talking about the Sam storyline last night. It feels so "who cares?" at this point. It takes years to become a maester; presumably there is not that kind of time left before the battle for humanity. I'm sure him ganking the Valyrian steel from his dad will play a part, but I don't see how when he's in Oldtown.

Horn Hill is relatively close to Oldtown, so I'm sure he'll run into his dad.

 

[alarson]

She was already with Littlefinger on the battlefield when the Vale Knights charged. If she was worried about which side they would take, why would she potentially put herself in harm's way, by being right next to the army that might betray her? Doesn't make sense. It's a plot hole in the story. No two ways about it. There's no plausible explanation for why she wouldn't have let him know ahead of time.

Plenty of reason to not tell Jon.

Lets think about what happens if he knows.

He probably elects to delay, waiting for the knights to get there.

Ramsay would figure out he now is at a disadvantage, likely would retreat into winterfell, this time more able to withstand a siege (this time it didnt work out as his army was largely beaten by the time he got back into the walls).

Ultimately, Jon and his allied men *needed* to be bait for Ramsay's army, to draw them out so they could be beaten. She did however tell him what he needed to do to minimize those deaths- Dont let Ramsay use Rickon to make you do something foolish. And.. he didnt even listen to that.

 

[Angie]

Plenty of reason to not tell Jon.

Lets think about what happens if he knows.

He probably elects to delay, waiting for the knights to get there.

Ramsay would figure out he now is at a disadvantage, likely would retreat into winterfell, this time more able to withstand a siege (this time it didnt work out as his army was largely beaten by the time he got back into the walls).

Ultimately, Jon and his allied men *needed* to be bait for Ramsay's army, to draw them out so they could be beaten. She did however tell him what he needed to do to minimize those deaths- Dont let Ramsay use Rickon to make you do something foolish. And.. he didnt even listen to that.

To the bolded - how? Surely not from Sansa or Jon. LF and the KotV managed to keep it a secret before Jon knew. I don't see how Jon knowing and postponing the fight literally three hours changes anything.