To all the Prohm Haters...

[IlliniCy]

I love this team and Prohm as much as anybody on this board. He's a very good coach and probably the best recruiting head coach we have had in 20 years.

This is not a young team, though.

Minutes tonight...

36 Weiler-Babb... fifth-year senior
35 Shayok... fifth-year senior
35 Haliburton... true freshman
30 Wigginton... sophomore, played a ton as a freshman, likely his last season in Ames
26 Jacobson... fourth-year junior
24 Horton-Tucker... true freshman
14 Conditt IV... true freshman

This team is an odd combination of old men (Nick, Marial, and Mike), a super-talented sophomore who is probably about to go pro, and precocious freshmen.

I hear "young team" and I hear a majority of our minutes played by freshmen and sophomores, maybe a junior or senior or two. We had 97 of a possible 200 minutes played by men who are at least four years into their college careers, however.

That is not a "young team."

Young teams are not about to lose most of their rotation next year through graduation and probably 1-2 guys declaring for the NBA draft and not returning.

More than half the minutes are from Freshmen and a Sophomore.

Young team.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I've been critical of Prohm in some instances, but that stat is pretty much a mic drop. What Prohm has built so far since arriving in Ames is just as good, if not better, than his predecessors. At the end of the day we're spoiled compared to what this program has seen for decades.

It’s ok to question, I do. But for some, it’s beyond just x’s and o’s That’s the problem.

 

[ISUChippewa]

This is not about Coach Prohm vs. some other coach for some other team.

As soon as the next loss happens, we'll have all kinds of people blaming the ISU players (mostly calling out individual players for a poor performance). But as soon as someone dares be critical of the coaching staff that is getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year (or millions in Prohm's case), then we're all haters who do not understand basketball...

Going to your last point, CSP and his staff have forgotten more about basketball and knowledge of basketball than you or me or anyone else on this forum have ever known in the first place. So, yes, in that context, we sure as h@ll don't "understand" basketball the way the coaches and players do.

And to toot my own horn, that is something I've written about before on here, even going back to the Greg McDermott days, whom I was otherwise very critical of.

 

[MartyFine]

You know, Marty fine was one of the worst coaches in the history of this place. You rep him well.

Players make the plays. Nick had a wide open 3 Saturday, and it didn’t go in. Lindell had a 1 and 1 to go up 3 Saturday, and he missed it.

And to continue on pointing out the complete and total stupidity of your post, there was an entire threads dedicated to Lindell, and Mike with plenty of shots taken at them veiled by prohm hate by the same people from your cult.

Now you should probably just stop proving you don’t understand

Thank you for not disagreeing with my observation that it's OK in the eyes of some to bash the players, but pointing out the inability to run an inbounds play or getting crushed on the glass is in no way tied to the head coach of the team and all criticism of the head coach is unacceptable.

Ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears, it is your final and most essential command...

 

[Sigmapolis]

Hey guys remember this game in Lubbock?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-01-24-texas-tech.html

Hoiberg was perfect.

Pause.

Not.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Thank you for not disagreeing with my observation that it's OK in the eyes of some to bash the players, but point out the inability to run an inbounds play or getting crushed on the glass is in no way tied to the head coach of the team and all criticism of the head coach is unacceptable.

Ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears, it is your final and most essential command...

So if nick would have made the 3 on a spread play drawn up to get a wide open looks Saturday and we won, that would have been great coaching, then too, right?

 

[Cat Stevens]

Thank you for not disagreeing with my observation that it's OK in the eyes of some to bash the players, but pointing out the inability to run an inbounds play or getting crushed on the glass is in no way tied to the head coach of the team and all criticism of the head coach is unacceptable.

Ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears, it is your final and most essential command...

By the way, Cascade, here’s your straw man

 

[CascadeClone]

It may not be you, so I apologize if it wasn’t, but there is a sect here that is exactly what the op was talking about. And they live in straw man world.

Fair enough. I guess my point is about 2% of the posters are the fringe and they seem to drive 95% of the discussion.

I suppose its the same as politics...

 

[MartyFine]

By the way, Cascade, here’s your straw man

Yes, it was I who started the thread entitled "To all the Prohm haters" right after a big win in the hopes of seeking reasoned discussion of the basketball game.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Yes, it was I who started the thread entitled "To all the Prohm haters" right after a big win in the hopes of seeking reasoned discussion of the basketball game.

No, but you couldn’t help yourself from joining in to show what he was talking about.

 

[JDDDCy]

Marty, I don't mind posts criticizing in a rational manner. I just can't stand moronic comments like the one about losses to teams like K-state should be cause for firing a coach. If that is the case LE should have been on the chopping block during the 1999-2000 season. The greatest ISU season in my lifetime. I guess I didn't even think of you as one of the extremists on this board.

 

[Urbandale2013]

See this is the issue at hand. “Well we closed it out but it wasn’t closed out correctly or perfectly”.

It’s a road game in the big 12 in a pretty hostile spot with a team that was absolutely flying before they ran in to us. Why are people so insane about basketball? Is it just a lack of knowledge? I know that many here I would describe as “football people” so maybe the lack of knowledge and understanding of basketball causes people to lash out when things don’t go how they think they should go.

I think some is a football thing both sides but I’m a basketball guy. We did play pretty well down the stretch defensively. That is a big reason for the Top 10 road wins. Defense travels and you are going to be better on the road with good defense. The problem has always been and continues to be offensively in the last 4 minutes. The players actually executed well offensively by making some shots IMO. We also got lucky with Tech missing free throws and being unable to foul on that one possession. The gameplan continues to be the issue. Once we hit 4 minutes we drastically increase the possessions where we dribble for half the shot clock and set a high ball screen. To win you have to continue to score at the end of the game. We play not to lose a lead. It isn’t the most horrendous strategy on the road but it is asinine at home with Hilton.

 

[Kurttr]

I'm waiting for some of the Prohm haters to go with this one -- yeah, but Prohm would have lost to UAB by 5+ points! Seriously, after the next bad loss or big win, it's coming... there's lots still to meld with this team with Lindell & Lard having missed so much time and having to adjust to conference play v. noncon; will be more bumps, but, hopefully, we get there sooner than later... great to get last night's win.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I think some is a football thing both sides but I’m a basketball guy. We did play pretty well down the stretch defensively. That is a big reason for the Top 10 road wins. Defense travels and you are going to be better on the road with good defense. The problem has always been and continues to be offensively in the last 4 minutes. The players actually executed well offensively by making some shots IMO. We also got lucky with Tech missing free throws and being unable to foul on that one possession. The gameplan continues to be the issue. Once we hit 4 minutes we drastically increase the possessions where we dribble for half the shot clock and set a high ball screen. To win you have to continue to score at the end of the game. We play not to lose a lead. It isn’t the most horrendous strategy on the road but it is asinine at home with Hilton.

Wow. Just. Wow. You probably should not claim to be a basketball guy.

 

[HitItHard58]

See this is the issue at hand. “Well we closed it out but it wasn’t closed out correctly or perfectly”.

It’s a road game in the big 12 in a pretty hostile spot with a team that was absolutely flying before they ran in to us. Why are people so insane about basketball? Is it just a lack of knowledge? I know that many here I would describe as “football people” so maybe the lack of knowledge and understanding of basketball causes people to lash out when things don’t go how they think they should go.

This is a big part of my problem and why I get so frustrated with fellow fans. People I know personally and some who sit in my section clearly know jack **** about basketball but run their mouths all the same. It's fine to be passionate and vocal whether you know what you're talking about or not but having legit hate for a coach who has been successful is where I draw the line. Several posters have questioned where these people are and I can't confirm how many are on this board right now. I stopped going into game day threads a couple seasons ago because of them. I've previously mentioned some friends of mine who have only grown to hate him even more and refused to give him any credit after the win last night. Facebook, which has to be taken with a grain of salt to an extent because people are on there just looking to be dumb ********, is full of Prohm haters.

I have zero problem with Prohm catching some rational criticism. Inbounds plays need to be addressed obviously and I think Wigginton would be better off starting while Haliburton, who has definitely earned a starting spot, would be a great spark off the bench. With plenty of room to improve, we're still 3-2 to start conference play. Look back at every year between Fred and Prohm and you'll find that 3-2 has been pretty average for us. Best start was Fred's last season when we started 4-1 but dropped the next one. We'll be 4-2 after we stomp Okie State on Saturday. Everything will be just fine.

 

[jbhtexas]

It’s ok to question, I do. But for some, it’s beyond just x’s and o’s That’s the problem.

For me, the perplexing thing is what is it about Prohm that these people hate? Is that he is a southeasterner and doesn't have Iowa/upper midwest roots? Is it because he doesn't have a list of P5 schools on his resume, and as such isn't good enough for ISU? Is it because he doesn't turn a blind eye to out-of-control player shenanigans for the sake of winning, and actually holds players to standards (like expecting them to attend practice)? Is it that he holds religious convictions?

Like this poster who is waving the "Hoiberg Standard" flag and questioning whether ISU really finished out the TT game...that is just so far out there that there that there has to be some vendetta beyond basketball driving it. You can't even attribute it to sheer stupidity.

 

[GetAwesome]

An important point of mental health perspective when navigating the emotional swings of Prohm love and hate on this board is that we, as a CycloneFanatic whole, are an extreme vocal minority of Iowa State fans. I couldn't tell you a single conversation that I've had over the past 2 seasons away from this board that involves a harsh critique of Prohm's coaching abilities or a desire for having Fred back.

That's all. Keep on hating and loving, y'all. Go Clones!

 

[MartyFine]

Marty, I don't mind posts criticizing in a rational manner. I just can't stand moronic comments like the one about losses to teams like K-state should be cause for firing a coach. If that is the case LE should have been on the chopping block during the 1999-2000 season. The greatest ISU season in my lifetime. I guess I didn't even think of you as one of the extremists on this board.

The '99-'00 season? They lost two conference games on the road, one in double OT and one in OT after a half-court shot to tie it up. People were fine with that as I recall...

 

[ISUChippewa]

This is a big part of my problem and why I get so frustrated with fellow fans. People I know personally and some who sit in my section clearly know jack **** about basketball but run their mouths all the same. It's fine to be passionate and vocal whether you know what you're talking about or not but having legit hate for a coach who has been successful is where I draw the line. Several posters have questioned where these people are and I can't confirm how many are on this board right now. I stopped going into game day threads a couple seasons ago because of them. I've previously mentioned some friends of mine who have only grown to hate him even more and refused to give him any credit after the win last night. Facebook, which has to be taken with a grain of salt to an extent because people are on there just looking to be dumb ********, is full of Prohm haters.

I have zero problem with Prohm catching some rational criticism. Inbounds plays need to be addressed obviously and I think Wigginton would be better off starting while Haliburton, who has definitely earned a starting spot, would be a great spark off the bench. With plenty of room to improve, we're still 3-2 to start conference play. Look back at every year between Fred and Prohm and you'll find that 3-2 has been pretty average for us. Best start was Fred's last season when we started 4-1 but dropped the next one. We'll be 4-2 after we stomp Okie State on Saturday. Everything will be just fine.

Yep. Spot on, and hence why I started the thread in the first place.

 

[ISUChippewa]

The '99-'00 season? They lost two conference games on the road, one in double OT and one in OT after a half-court shot to tie it up. People were fine with that as I recall...

And yet, there are still a few people who are unhappy with how we closed out a road victory over a Top 10 team last night...