ISU Medical School

[WooBadger18]

It would be a hell of a lot less expensive than a medical school.

Yeah, that would be the only reason they would do it.

Iowa state should not get a law school or a med school. Wisconsin (about double the size of Iowa) only has two of each. The State of Iowa doesn’t need another law school or med school. Plus, they would be inferior and it would look like we were just trying to do it for rivalry reasons.

On the law school front, I think Iowa has a shortage of attorneys in rural areas. The solution isn’t to build another law school, it’s to institute diploma privilege and other incentives to make practicing in rural areas more attractive

 

[1UNI2ISU]

As a broader discussion, I can't figure out why the BOR hasn't made their life's work reducing redundancy. All 3 regents schools have real strengths and we dilute them by duplicating them at the other two schools.

 

[Cyclone560]

While I think it would make sense from a sciences background standpoint I don't think it ultimately makes that much sense with the makeup of ISU. Which I think it partially intentional (separation of specalities with Iowa having a truly great medical school), but as someone who majored in Engineering but had interest in medicine and wanted to apply to medical school I was met with the harsh reality when applying to schools that ISU did not do much to prepare students for med school applications. Most of which I think was simply demand, ISU doesn't seem (or at least didn't when I was there) to have a significant enough number of students interested in medical school to really build up a pre-med program/path. There are a lot of schools that are heavily involved with planning and pushing pre-med students into the right research/volunteer opportunities/extra curriculars that ISU just doesn't really do as there is no actual program just essentially part-time advisors.

Basically, I don't know if there is truly enough overlap for it to make sense because there seems to be surprisingly low interest in a pre-med path from ISU undergrads and I would think that would be at least one place to start when considering starting a medical school is knowing you at least have a base of capable undergrad students that you could partially rely on/a solid and proven pre-med program.

Also feel free to take this all with a grain of salt because I almost certainly didn't utilize the resources ISU had to their fullest potential, but that's just my experience as I opted to go that route sophomore year with minimal knowledge on the process of applying or any of that and then unfortunately learned about all I missed out on somewhat after the fact. Definitely partially on me, but at the same time ISU has nowhere near the undergrad infastructure for pre-med students that many schools do for sure.

 

[jdcyclone19]

Hi all -

I'm new to the forums, but I'm very interested in starting a discussion regarding the future of medical education at Iowa State. Specifically, I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on the possibility/feasibility of ISU eventually building a medical school. Key word here is "eventually", as I realize the many hurdles in the way of making this a reality in the near-term.

The obvious hurdles:
-Funding: highly unlikely the Regents would fund even a small fraction of this, the project would certainly rely heavily on donations
-Carver College of Medicine (MD) and Des Moines University (DO): is there even demand for more medical education?

In terms of funding, the large donations ISU has seen in the recent 5 years makes me relatively optimistic that the capital is out there to make this happen, if the idea ever gained any traction. Many universities across the country (particularly in Texas) are adding medical schools, in an effort to boost university research funds and prestige. Of course, Iowa is not Texas. That said, medical education seems like it fits very well within the university's strengths in science in technology. Frankly, it's a perfectly natural fit, and I doubt many would dispute that. Not to mention the university's newly emphasized focus on innovation. A medical school would certainly increase the university's reputation as a place of innovation.

Could anyone foresee a scenario in which ISU acquires Mary Greeley Medical Center (or, even more outlandish, Des Moines University) to create a new medical school? Or otherwise builds one from the ground up? Is the interest there? Could the funding eventually be there (let's call "eventually" within the next 25-30 years)? Is it absurd to think that a state like Iowa could have 3 medical schools in this time frame?

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this subject. Hoping for a reasonable discussion, if possible. Feel free to cover facts, possibilities, hurdles, etc. that I may have missed.

Looking forward to the discussion and apologies for the long post.

With IofI already having a medical school in the state and the most recent fiascoes associated with it, the BOR won't go for another one. The only medical college ISU will have is for veterinary medicine.

Also, are you talking a medical department under a college or a medical college? Two drastically different things.

If a new "medical department" or program was established in the College of Vet Med, that might be a different story. As for a stand alone college, not likely at all.

 

[Acylum]

Did the nursing program they were considering ever get started?

 

[Sigmapolis]

As a broader discussion, I can't figure out why the BOR hasn't made their life's work reducing redundancy. All 3 regents schools have real strengths and we dilute them by duplicating them at the other two schools.

Hell hath no fury like an academic fiefdom facing cutbacks.

While I think it would make sense from a sciences background standpoint I don't think it ultimately makes that much sense with the makeup of ISU. Which I think it partially intentional (separation of specalities with Iowa having a truly great medical school), but as someone who majored in Engineering but had interest in medicine and wanted to apply to medical school I was met with the harsh reality when applying to schools that ISU did not do much to prepare students for med school applications. Most of which I think was simply demand, ISU doesn't seem (or at least didn't when I was there) to have a significant enough number of students interested in medical school to really build up a pre-med program/path. There are a lot of schools that are heavily involved with planning and pushing pre-med students into the right research/volunteer opportunities/extra curriculars that ISU just doesn't really do as there is no actual program just essentially part-time advisors.

Basically, I don't know if there is truly enough overlap for it to make sense because there seems to be surprisingly low interest in a pre-med path from ISU undergrads and I would think that would be at least one place to start when considering starting a medical school is knowing you at least have a base of capable undergrad students that you could partially rely on/a solid and proven pre-med program.

Also feel free to take this all with a grain of salt because I almost certainly didn't utilize the resources ISU had to their fullest potential, but that's just my experience as I opted to go that route sophomore year with minimal knowledge on the process of applying or any of that and then unfortunately learned about all I missed out on somewhat after the fact. Definitely partially on me, but at the same time ISU has nowhere near the undergrad infastructure for pre-med students that many schools do for sure.

Informative post -- thank you.

I am going to compare this to the University of Florida in Gainesville, where my wife (a current PEM fellow) did her undergraduate studies.

She once told me that 25% of UF freshmen enter as premed majors. That obviously falls off quite a bit by senior year, but there are certain places out there with abundant resources and a "culture" built around the MCAT and medical school applications that is just not the case with engineering-, science-, and agriculture-heavy Iowa State. Her cousin went to Madison, and he told me basically the same thing. People show up there as freshman already on that warpath in ways I do not remember much of at Iowa State.

Though I will say the engineering part of it is not incompatible with that. Two of my wife's best friends (and I guess mine by extension, given it is now two sets of married couples) were chemical engineering and aerospace engineering majors as undergraduates before going into medical school. Engineering majors are not looked down upon by medical school admissions offices -- quite the opposite, actually, in most cases.

 

[jdcyclone19]

Did the nursing program they were considering ever get started?

Yes but you have to be a RN to enroll.

https://fshn.hs.iastate.edu/undergraduate-programs/nursing/

 

[deadeyededric]

There aren't enough people in this state to have 2 public medical schools.

 

[irish]

If the Regents have money to spend, pile it all into the Engineering and Ag colleges. That's our strength.
Why IC has an engineering program is beyond me.

I've been wondering this same thing for 20+ years. Has anyone ever come across a competent engineer that graduated from U of I?

 

[Cypow]

If a new "medical department" or program was established in the College of Vet Med, that might be a different story. As for a stand alone college, not likely at all.

Let's entertain the idea of a medical department rather than a full medical college, given the general consensus on this thread. Seems like there's a good deal of medical-related research happening on campus, though not under a true medical department.

 

[Dopey]

Redundant but in a less expensive way. If ISU had a law school I would have gone straight in after graduation. As it worked out I fiddled around, looked at Iowa, looked at Minnesota, knew I didn’t want to go to Drake, and ended up finding a job that I liked while I was fiddling around and never went after it.

There's some truth to this for me as well. And what I'm about to say is blasphemy:

Part of me wishes I went to a school with a law or medical school. I did not consider them as interesting options until "much" later in life. If I was on a campus where they were more prevalent, I may have considered those paths at a more convenient time.

That being said, Iowa State adding either of them is silly. I'd much rather truly establish ourselves as an Engineering & Architectural school. We like to call ourselves one, but the rankings (especially for engineering) don't necessarily reflect it.... last I looked anyway.

 

[TXCyclones]

Laughing seeing the number of people saying "no" considering the nursing program was just started recently. Yes, it's a possibility.

 

[Cypow]

Thanks for the input everyone. One more point to make. Most AAU universities have medical schools. And more universities have been building them.

A straightforward question: does this put us at a disadvantage?

The main points in this thread have been “focus on our strengths", "no need in this state", "funding could be better allocated", "our program would be inferior to Iowa's". While all of that is true, even if our medical school is relatively low-tier, would we be at long term disadvantage as an AAU university without a med school?

At what point does the university say that, in order to truly be competitive globally, we need to operate in a way that may cause redundancies within the BOR system?

 

[TXCyclones]

I remember an incident when I was in marching band as an undergraduate. Remember that the marching band is (1.) heavily male, (2.) very socially awkward in general, (3.) heavy on engineering majors, and (4.) made up of ISU superfans.

A fellow band member, a nice young woman, had worn a University of Iowa College of Engineering sweatshirt to practice one day. I found it later she received it on a visit to Iowa City before committing to the good guys, and she wore it that day without really thinking about the implications of it. That was when her troubles began.

Towards the end of practice, somebody pointed it out, in an accusatory "burn the witch" sort of tone, "Why are you wearing an Iowa engineering sweater!?!" I watched her heart sink. Thankfully, somebody resolved the situation. "Oh, I get it, it's a joke! Very funny!" We all proceeded to laugh about it, and she ended up embarrassed though relatively pleasantly instead of totally ostracized as a closet Hawkeye over the incident.

I am still glad somebody made it funny instead of us collectively booing her.

Dorkestra kids are the worst.

 

[Cypow]

Laughing seeing the number of people saying "no" considering the nursing program was just started recently. Yes, it's a possibility.

Quite surprised by the pessimism as well. I truly appreciate realism, but I guess I expected at least a small amount of optimism for a "university on the move" (to steal the Ivy tagline) in many respects.

 

[cowgirl836]

Sorry! A couple of my roommates were actually northern Chicago suburb guys!

Agreed about expanding CS and SWE. Biomedical engineering might be another great investment as well.

agree on biomed/biotech space, that's where we should put our attention. Fits nicely with our current strengths.

 

[Torks Pub]

Hi all -



Could anyone foresee a scenario in which ISU acquires Mary Greeley Medical Center (or, even more outlandish, Des Moines University) to create a new medical school? Or otherwise builds one from the ground up? Is the interest there? Could the funding eventually be there (let's call "eventually" within the next 25-30 years)? Is it absurd to think that a state like Iowa could have 3 medical schools in this time frame?

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this subject. Hoping for a reasonable discussion, if possible. Feel free to cover facts, possibilities, hurdles, etc. that I may have missed.

Looking forward to the discussion and apologies for the long post.

Within the last few years I've thought that ISU needed to develop a partnership, if not a purchase of DMU. It would be a terrific outlet for biology, kinesiology, fill in the science degree you'd like here, to become PAs, PTs, DOs, etc.

Seems to me these positions are where the front lines of the medical business is going a with reduced re-imbursements and cost cutting.

 

[brentblum]

As someone who has worked at Des Moines University (and Iowa State) I found this thread interesting. I think there would be an opportunity to attract students, but as @Sigmapolis referenced, the real difficulty is in the medical rotation and residency spots locally (and nationally) which makes life really difficult.

Interestingly, DMU's DO med student class has a much larger class-size than the U of I. About 220 per class for DMU compared to 150 for Iowa. And there are more DMU grads than U of I grads practicing in the state of Iowa. DMU would also get thousands of applications for those 200+ med school spots.

Long story short, I think there would be an opportunity, but not sure the state of Iowa has the infrastructure with its hospital systems to make it work long-term. Unless there was a dedicated hospital just for Iowa State it'd be very tough.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

As a broader discussion, I can't figure out why the BOR hasn't made their life's work reducing redundancy. All 3 regents schools have real strengths and we dilute them by duplicating them at the other two schools.

The issue will always be recruiting indecisive undergrads and then allegiances to certain schools based on sports or otherwise. If you have a top student that might be engineering or pre-med or whatever, you are less likely to lose them to Illinois, Minnesota, or wherever if you tell them that they can do either at the school they choose to attend.

 

[Dopey]

If Iowa State was going to do it, it needed to do it 10-20 years ago. There has been an absolute explosion of medical schools nationwide in that timeframe --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States

I doubt the Board of Regents would assent to a duplication of costs and programs like another medical school in Ames or Des Moines, too, even if Iowa State's focus on "life sciences" does make some sense for that theme. I guess humans do not apply for that. Iowa has always been the home of the professional schools for the state of Iowa save for veterinary medicine, and I imagine it is going to stay that way.

I would guess the response would be that, if you really need to graduate more doctors trained in Iowa, then Iowa would just up its number of admissions. The marginal cost of adding, say, 50 more admissions in Iowa City compared to opening up an entirely new program in Ames are going to be wildly different from each other.

It is already harder to find a residency slot now than it was even a few years ago. The reasons for that are complex and mostly related to federal policy, but I will just say that it is already making it really hard to match for non-U.S. docs and those educated at less prestigious DO programs. It is even creeping up into the less prestigious MD programs. Adding more and more supply to that, unless more residencies become available (which is another conversation), is only going to make that worse.

At some point, medical school couldugh a lot of hell, too, for salaries that are not at the commanding heights that many people associate with doctors.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. No new schools from 1982 - 2000. And then, as you say, from 2000+, quite a few new ones.

What was the driver of this?