Perspective from the Big Ten and some much needed clarifications

[cymonw1980]

I think you are misunderstanding a key factor in NLI which is that schools cannot pay the players. It doesnt matter if Alabama gets a billion dollars a year in rights deals they cant pay the players a cent. They can give them amazing facilities and living conditions but not actual money. Only companies can give out the sponsorships and while nike and adidas will always try to target the best athletes nationally donors are the real people funding NIL. The big ten has far more megadonors then the SEC by an insane amount. Those are the people that are going to be paying players the mega bucks to play for their universities.

yes.. understand that. I am reffering to the supreme court case not the NIL situation. Supreme court case opened the door for players to bring additional lawsuits forward that would open the door for schools to pay directly. We are not there yet... but we will be. It is when, not if.

In terms of donors.. i agree OSU, PSU, Mich will be able to compete. But I think you are selling the sec a bit short....

Looking at avg donations per year to each schools athletic dept since 2005
(source: https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances) shows that the top 3 revenue brands in the b10 (osu, mich, psu) rank behind 9 SEC (wihen you include tx, ou) schools in avg contributions to the athletic dept. The b10 has a media rights advantage and has been making more there then everyone except tx (LHN puts them over the top). But that advantage will either go away or be reduced significantly in the next round of deals...

 

[cymonw1980]

They may not want any of that. In fact they probably don't. But what are they supposed to do about it?

With the currently unfolding ******** happening regarding "conference/ESPN" expansion, they shouldn't touch anything with a ten foot pole any time soon. I know I wouldn't.

Who is going to risk trying to leave a conference for a different one for ANY reason at this point in time? They'll wait out the carnage and see what shakes out. IMO of course.

This doesn't have to mean adding a single team...

The sec has put all of college football on notice.... the pac and the acc are a mess... they are just hoping their tv deals approach what the sec and b10 will make. In the short term ACC is safe due to the terrible contract that they signed with espn that locks up the GoR but does not allow them to renegotiate until 2036 unless they add teams. By that time they will be so far behind the brand name schools will be able to pay penalties, etc and get out early to join a league making 2x (or more) what the ACC is paying. (side note: this is why once the b12 dissolves or we get to 2025, 1 or 2 b12 schools may get a spot in the ACC - they need to expand to renegotiate the deal and ND is not joining... so, they need to add best available).

So, if you are the ACC or PAC and you do not see the writing on the wall you are insane... With the B12 gone, the next rounds of realignment will be to take from pac/acc.

B10's options:

1) raid pac / acc before sec.... or
2) partner with the pac / acc and create a college football league.

For membership teams need to pool rights (similar to the NFL) and members get equal payouts. sec can join or they can play in a 16 team league by themselves. This is a long term play that will take time, but by doing this the b10 and the rest of the conf can remain in tact and take control away from sec/espn and step into the power void in college football.

Today college football is shaped by the media partners based on their best interest... that is clear. The b10 would likely make a little less per school than they could (still more than they do now so not talking pay cut just smaller increase). But it would keep everyone on par in terms of media revenue and stop the craziness...

i am sure there are issues with the above... my main point is the b10 is the only conference with the ability to stop this if they want. They could chose instead to play the game and move to a 16 v. 16 or 20 v. 20 type of scenario... no idea what they want CFB to look like.

 

[DarkStar]

@FriendlySpartan
I've heard that B1G share some of it ticket sales with the schools that have poor attendance.

Can you verify and explain how that works.

Any idea how much we would be paing into that assuming our average attendance stays above 60k and Rutgers stays below 20k

 

[theshadow]

I've heard that B1G share some of it ticket sales with the schools that have poor attendance.

Can you verify and explain how that works.

Any idea how much we would be paing into that assuming our average attendance stays above 60k and Rutgers stays below 20k

Not Sparty, but I'll give it a shot (note: I don't know if the rules changed when teams 13-14 were brought in, but I doubt it).

For football, the home team keeps 65% of the net gate for conference games. The other 35% goes to the league pool. The minimum pay-in per game is $300k and the maximum is $1M. At the end of the season, the pool is split evenly among all teams.

The schools that pay in the maximum (i.e., biggest stadiums/highest attendance) end up losing about $1M for the entire season. The schools that pay in the minimum usually gain between $1M to $1.5M for the season.

 

[JM4CY]

Not Sparty, but I'll give it a shot (note: I don't know if the rules changed when teams 13-14 were brought in, but I doubt it).

For football, the home team keeps 65% of the net gate for conference games. The other 35% goes to the league pool. The minimum pay-in per game is $300k and the maximum is $1M. At the end of the season, the pool is split evenly among all teams.

The schools that pay in the maximum (i.e., biggest stadiums/highest attendance) end up losing about $1M for the entire season. The schools that pay in the minimum usually gain between $1M to $1.5M for the season.

Maybe I’m missing something but that seems really strange. Why should the money I spend to see the boys in JTS go to Lawrence?

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Maybe I’m missing something but that seems really strange. Why should the money I spend to see the boys in JTS go to Lawrence?

Not only that 35% of your money is tied up all season.

 

[Cloneon]

yes.. understand that. I am reffering to the supreme court case not the NIL situation. Supreme court case opened the door for players to bring additional lawsuits forward that would open the door for schools to pay directly. We are not there yet... but we will be. It is when, not if.

In terms of donors.. i agree OSU, PSU, Mich will be able to compete. But I think you are selling the sec a bit short....

Looking at avg donations per year to each schools athletic dept since 2005
(source: https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances) shows that the top 3 revenue brands in the b10 (osu, mich, psu) rank behind 9 SEC (wihen you include tx, ou) schools in avg contributions to the athletic dept. The b10 has a media rights advantage and has been making more there then everyone except tx (LHN puts them over the top). But that advantage will either go away or be reduced significantly in the next round of deals...


View attachment 87636

As a lot has been made of the percentage of academic income vs athletic income, I wonder how these same schools compare in that area. Anyone?

 

[Cloneon]

Not Sparty, but I'll give it a shot (note: I don't know if the rules changed when teams 13-14 were brought in, but I doubt it).

For football, the home team keeps 65% of the net gate for conference games. The other 35% goes to the league pool. The minimum pay-in per game is $300k and the maximum is $1M. At the end of the season, the pool is split evenly among all teams.

The schools that pay in the maximum (i.e., biggest stadiums/highest attendance) end up losing about $1M for the entire season. The schools that pay in the minimum usually gain between $1M to $1.5M for the season.

Fascinating stuff. The NFL has attempted parity with the draft and salary caps because they know it's essential to the success of the league. If CFB does not follow suit, their product will die of disinterest.

The whole NIL thing is rather ironic. Simplistically, we have ISU with 3 star kids beating teams with 5 star kids. This would strongly indicate coaching and their evaluation has much more to do with talent than ratings services. So, the NIL can be divided into two parts: coming out of high school as good OR building your reputation in college as good. If that's the case, two categories of recruiting will emerge: the existing high school recruiting, albeit with bribes and back channel payouts AND if unchecked (ie non-NCAA), other universities actively recruiting 'existing' college athletes (ie the SEC way).

My point is the existing unchecked path exhibited by the power grab we're now seeing is temporary unless heavily regulated and designed for parity.

 

[theshadow]

Not only that 35% of your money is tied up all season.

If you have a big stadium, you budget for that $1M loss each year.

 

[Bestaluckcy]

If you have a big stadium, you budget for that $1M loss each year.

How do ticket prices get set in a system such as this? Is there revenue sharing for non football sports?

 

[Rural]

I’m probably

I’m probably opening a whole new can of worms in this thread, but I’m fascinated by this. ISU has leaned heavily into the family friendly atmosphere idea. Some will disagree but I think it has been really successful. No alcohol is sold at games and the north end zone remains as hillsides mostly to allow young families a price point and an opportunity to attend games. I grew up attending games from the north hillsides, and I think it helped hook me into my fandom. I can only confirm this to about 2010 or so, but our students don’t have assigned seating for most* football or basketball games either.

*Assigned seating will sometimes be used for basketball games expected to have exceptional demand. KU or Iowa if they are good.

Now I really want to attend some MSU games and compare and contrast.

So, not often?

 

[dexterhawk]

Some interesting comments from outgoing FSU president

College football realignment: FSU president John Thrasher does not want Florida State to be ‘left behind’

...

247sports.com

If this means FSU/Clemson to SEC is could definitely see a 24 team super SEC in the works which could ultimately mean ISU to the B1G.

Lets say the SEC blows up the ACC.....FSU/Clemson/Miami/GT/WF/NC/Louisville and throw in emerging UCF to the SEC to form a 24 team Southeast monster.

B1G has to keep pace and the only pickup that makes that possible is ND. ACC blows up and that's on the table....can't see ND wanting to be part of the SEC. B1G picks up ND/Virginia/VT/Duke//Syracuse/BC to lock in the Northeast market. Makes PSU happy......gets the B1G to 22.

Pick up KU/ISU to get to 24....makes geographical sense. ND alone provides the Marquee value. Lock in Northeast/Midwest markets and even though this is a football move.......Basketball would be a monster.

Pac 12 picks up remaining B12 teams....BYU/UNLV/BSU for a clear 3rd place conference but with USC/OREGON/Stanford/Wash giving them some legit football clout.

 

[jcyclonee]

Some interesting comments from outgoing FSU president

College football realignment: FSU president John Thrasher does not want Florida State to be ‘left behind’

...

247sports.com

If this means FSU/Clemson to SEC is could definitely see a 24 team super SEC in the works which could ultimately mean ISU to the B1G.

Lets say the SEC blows up the ACC.....FSU/Clemson/Miami/GT/WF/NC/Louisville and throw in emerging UCF to the SEC to form a 24 team Southeast monster.

B1G has to keep pace and the only pickup that makes that possible is ND. ACC blows up and that's on the table....can't see ND wanting to be part of the SEC. B1G picks up ND/Virginia/VT/Duke//Syracuse/BC to lock in the Northeast market. Makes PSU happy......gets the B1G to 22.

Pick up KU/ISU to get to 24....makes geographical sense. ND alone provides the Marquee value. Lock in Northeast/Midwest markets and even though this is a football move.......Basketball would be a monster.

Pac 12 picks up remaining B12 teams....BYU/UNLV/BSU for a clear 3rd place conference but with USC/OREGON/Stanford/Wash giving them some legit football clout.

I get your point but the SEC would rather stop at 20 then invite Louisville, WF, and UCF. I guess they could take UCF just to completely lock down Florida.

 

[Die4Cy]

This is incredibly frustrating to watch play out. Florida State was essentially just a community college when I was a kid, but because Bowden made them relevant thirty years ago when TV networks started paying close attention to these things, they are always going to have the option of being in the big boy league despite being hit and miss ever since. Meanwhile, you've got a coach at ISU, a school with 120 years of competing at the to level of FBS football, capable of having the same kinds of accomplishments and there really isn't anything he can do in the present to gain that kind of credibility with these TV yahoos.

#ESPNistheDevil

 

[dexterhawk]

I get your point but the SEC would rather stop at 20 then invite Louisville, WF, and UCF. I guess they could take UCF just to completely lock down Florida.

They need some cannon fodder in the league along with the blue bloods. Can't see the blue blood programs being jazzed about going 7-5.

 

[SCarolinaCy]

This is incredibly frustrating to watch play out. Florida State was essentially just a community college when I was a kid, but because Bowden made them relevant thirty years ago when TV networks started paying close attention to these things, they are always going to have the option of being in the big boy league despite being hit and miss ever since. Meanwhile, you've got a coach at ISU, a school with 120 years of competing at the to level of FBS football, capable of having the same kinds of accomplishments and there really isn't anything he can do in the present to gain that kind of credibility with these TV yahoos.

#ESPNistheDevil

Difference between being in FL vs IA.

 

[jcyclonee]

They need some cannon fodder in the league along with the blue bloods. Can't see the blue blood programs being jazzed about going 7-5.

Duke is more profitable Cannon Fodder than Wake Forest.

 

[Statefan10]

Some interesting comments from outgoing FSU president

College football realignment: FSU president John Thrasher does not want Florida State to be ‘left behind’

...

247sports.com

If this means FSU/Clemson to SEC is could definitely see a 24 team super SEC in the works which could ultimately mean ISU to the B1G.

Lets say the SEC blows up the ACC.....FSU/Clemson/Miami/GT/WF/NC/Louisville and throw in emerging UCF to the SEC to form a 24 team Southeast monster.

B1G has to keep pace and the only pickup that makes that possible is ND. ACC blows up and that's on the table....can't see ND wanting to be part of the SEC. B1G picks up ND/Virginia/VT/Duke//Syracuse/BC to lock in the Northeast market. Makes PSU happy......gets the B1G to 22.

Pick up KU/ISU to get to 24....makes geographical sense. ND alone provides the Marquee value. Lock in Northeast/Midwest markets and even though this is a football move.......Basketball would be a monster.

Pac 12 picks up remaining B12 teams....BYU/UNLV/BSU for a clear 3rd place conference but with USC/OREGON/Stanford/Wash giving them some legit football clout.

 

[jcyclonee]

Difference between being in FL vs IA.

Bowden also decided to run a fun, passing offense when almost every other college team was running some version of "3 yards and a cloud of dust". It's on a bigger scale but isn't completely dissimilar to what basketball coaches like Johnny Orr and Billy Tubbs did.

 

[Remo Gaggi]

If you have a big stadium, you budget for that $1M loss each year.

Or you sell $1 million of beer to the rubes in the stadium ...