Perspective from the Big Ten and some much needed clarifications

[Cyclones1969]

I think I agree that the most likely outcome is OU and UT leave at the same time as everyone else - if everyone has somewhere to go - but the idea that the other conferences don’t “need” the games doesn’t really make sense. Like I said, it’s a grand total of 16 new games for the 42 schools in those leagues. We are talking about 1 in every 3 of those schools adding in a single Big 12 non-con opponent. If those leagues wanted to keep the Big 12 schools valuable before they swooped in and added them, this would be easy to do.

You really don’t think that the other 4 conferences don’t already have the value of each team calculated already?

nothing is going to happen publicly until at least spring of 22. But that doesn’t mean that schools don’t already have an idea where they will end up.

That’s also why tech fans should be scared about their ad making public comments.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

You really don’t think that the other 4 conferences don’t already have the value of each team calculated already?

nothing is going to happen publicly until at least spring of 22. But that doesn’t mean that schools don’t already have an idea where they will end up.

That’s also why tech fans should be scared about their ad making public comments.

Didn’t this news break one month ago? No, I don’t think the other P4 leagues have it all figured out already. Lots of variables in “value” too considering how different media rights could look with streaming.

I agree quiet is good though.

 

[Cyclones1969]

Didn’t this news break one month ago? No, I don’t think the other P4 leagues have it all figured out already. Lots of variables in “value” too considering how different media rights could look with streaming.

I agree quiet is good though.

You don’t think that the big 10 the pac 12 sec and the acc don’t already know what they think each school is worth?

 

[Cloneon]

You don’t think that the big 10 the pac 12 sec and the acc don’t already know what they think each school is worth?

Retroactively, yes. But, it's all about 'projections'.

 

[RustShack]

You don’t think that the big 10 the pac 12 sec and the acc don’t already know what they think each school is worth?

They probably don’t know what their media rights would give if they expanded yet. They probably don’t even know for sure what they would be getting without expanding yet.

 

[Cyclones1969]

They probably don’t know what their media rights would give if they expanded yet. They probably don’t even know for sure what they would be getting without expanding yet.

Then whomever is in charge is not doing what they’re supposed to.

they have entire departments dedicated to this stuff. Does it mean they know to the penny, no. But every conference knows what it’s worth to the media.

 

[CascadeClone]

None of those conferences want the Big 12 to exist going forward, they aren't going to throw the conference a bone and give up a possible playoff slot.

I'm not so sure about that. There is at least some use in the Big12 as a vote at the table against the SEC, even if we are essentially Belgium in NATO.

There's no fear about an OSU or ISU taking a playoff spot, they have that rigged already.

Plus I would guess there is enough bonhomie about teams getting hosed that they don't want to see the Big12 die. They won't go very far out of their way to prevent it, but they aren't actively seeking it, imho.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

You keep saying this, but you don’t know what will happen when Disney starts buying brands.

Very fair. I think our respective stances stem from past experiences. The big ten has been around for over a century and the only school that has ever left is university of Chicago close to 80 years ago. Between the stability and record school payouts every year I have never heard any talks of any of the members leaving which is were I base my view. I also understand your perspective of being in a conference dictated by texas and constantly being in a state of upheaval the past 10-15 years. I could very well have my head in the sand but outside of college athletics armageddon and starting everything from scratch I don't see a future where any school leaves.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Then whomever is in charge is not doing what they’re supposed to.

they have entire departments dedicated to this stuff. Does it mean they know to the penny, no. But every conference knows what it’s worth to the media.

100% true. That's were this 80mil per school conversation is coming from. The deal is up in 2023 and talks were already started well before texas and OU decided to burn it all down.

 

[BCClone]

Very fair. I think our respective stances stem from past experiences. The big ten has been around for over a century and the only school that has ever left is university of Chicago close to 80 years ago. Between the stability and record school payouts every year I have never heard any talks of any of the members leaving which is were I base my view. I also understand your perspective of being in a conference dictated by texas and constantly being in a state of upheaval the past 10-15 years. I could very well have my head in the sand but outside of college athletics armageddon and starting everything from scratch I don't see a future where any school leaves.

You understand that your record school payouts is what UT makes in the big XII with the LHN? They are leaving so the SEC must be showing them an unbelievable number to show up.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

You understand that your record school payouts is what UT makes in the big XII with the LHN? They are leaving so the SEC must be showing them an unbelievable number to show up.

Oh i am sure they are. LHN is an awful deal for espn that they want out of and that contract would never be renewed for how much money its lost espn. Big ten still makes more money per school then texas with the 37mil from big 12 and the 15 mil from the longhorn network.

The big ten's deal is expected to bring in 80mil per school in less then 18 months. I would imagine the SEC would be getting something close to that and they get the added stability. (the fact that they created the instability in the first place isnt lost on me)

 

[BCClone]

Oh i am sure they are. LHN is an awful deal for espn that they want out of and that contract would never be renewed for how much money its lost espn. Big ten still makes more money per school then texas with the 37mil from big 12 and the 15 mil from the longhorn network.

The big ten's deal is expected to bring in 80mil per school in less then 18 months. I would imagine the SEC would be getting something close to that and they get the added stability. (the fact that they created the instability in the first place isnt lost on me)

Payments are staggered slightly in the big XII. This year big XII is paying 40.4 MM. add that to the 15 that LHN makes and that puts them at 55.4. The 37 was a few years ago.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Payments are staggered slightly in the big XII. This year big XII is paying 40.4 MM. add that to the 15 that LHN makes and that puts them at 55.4. The 37 was a few years ago.

Whoops, must have been going off the old numbers, my bad

 

[BCClone]

Whoops, must have been going off the old numbers, my bad

Not a big deal. Just pointing out that for some teams, making the most of anybody isn’t enough.

Several teams in the big XII carry a few less teams than the big 10 teams do. It allows us to be a few million less in revenue.

In all honesty, let’s say you guys go from 55 to 80 MM. what do you use that 25 MM on? Most people have upgraded facilities to a point that there isnt much left. You can jack up coaching salaries but there isn’t a need to go much higher, coaching salaries are basically at the high end and all that does is push up buyout costs, better travel and tutors only cost so much. When do we hit the wall when ADs aren’t back stabbing other schools? Texas netted 20MM plus in the Covid reduced year. They have donors wanting to give money to name things and have ran out of things to name.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Oh i am sure they are. LHN is an awful deal for espn that they want out of and that contract would never be renewed for how much money its lost espn. Big ten still makes more money per school then texas with the 37mil from big 12 and the 15 mil from the longhorn network.

The big ten's deal is expected to bring in 80mil per school in less then 18 months. I would imagine the SEC would be getting something close to that and they get the added stability. (the fact that they created the instability in the first place isnt lost on me)

Can you link ONE source that is saying any where near what you are claiming here? So in the last numbers the Big 10 gave out $54 million per team, but in 2026 or 2027, 18 month after the new deal kicks in the league is going to pay out members an extra 26 million per year, per team over what they are currently now paying. Have to call BS on that Rosie numbers breakdown.

What you are hearing sounds like a wish list by the Big 10. Short media contract for the big 10, allowing them to get closer to the end of the GOR for the ACC teams. No expansion by the Pac 12 in the future.

One question, Why would the Pac 12 not expand? Once their new media rights deal is finished, why would they sit there and just hope its enough to keep USC and other sticking around instead of jumping to the Big 10 when they could make $80 million a year?

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Not a big deal. Just pointing out that for some teams, making the most of anybody isn’t enough.

Several teams in the big XII carry a few less teams than the big 10 teams do. It allows us to be a few million less in revenue.

In all honesty, let’s say you guys go from 55 to 80 MM. what do you use that 25 MM on? Most people have upgraded facilities to a point that there isnt much left. You can jack up coaching salaries but there isn’t a need to go much higher, coaching salaries are basically at the high end and all that does is push up buyout costs, better travel and tutors only cost so much. When do we hit the wall when ADs aren’t back stabbing other schools? Texas netted 20MM plus in the Covid reduced year. They have donors wanting to give money to name things and have ran out of things to name.

So for a school like Michigan the answer is the extra money means very little. For other schools like michigan state the money is very important. They actually cut the diving team last year because of a bunch of money lost during covid and will be running at a deficit this year as well. I assume (but do not know for sure) that a few other big ten schools are in similar situations

 

[BCClone]

So for a school like Michigan the answer is the extra money means very little. For other schools like michigan state the money is very important. They actually cut the diving team last year because of a bunch of money lost during covid and will be running at a deficit this year as well. I assume (but do not know for sure) that a few other big ten schools are in similar situations

ISUs budget this year is 98.6MM, Iowa’s (not sure what MSU is so I will go with Iowa’s and guess they should be similar) is 117 MM. Iowa cut sports this year so now they have 3-4 more sports than we do. No way that 3-4 more sports should run just under 20 MM more. Total schoolships for most schools don’t tally that amount.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Can you link ONE source that is saying any where near what you are claiming here? So in the last numbers the Big 10 gave out $54 million per team, but in 2026 or 2027, 18 month after the new deal kicks in the league is going to pay out members an extra 26 million per year, per team over what they are currently now paying. Have to call BS on that Rosie numbers breakdown.

What you are hearing sounds like a wish list by the Big 10. Short media contract for the big 10, allowing them to get closer to the end of the GOR for the ACC teams. No expansion by the Pac 12 in the future.

One question, Why would the Pac 12 not expand? Once their new media rights deal is finished, why would they sit there and just hope its enough to keep USC and other sticking around instead of jumping to the Big 10 when they could make $80 million a year?

I get my information directly from people at Michigan and Michigan state and that is the number they are hearing which is around 80mil. Obv no deal is set and one wont be reported on for awhile but the big ten knows its value and that's the ballpark that is being mentioned.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

ISUs budget this year is 98.6MM, Iowa’s (not sure what MSU is so I will go with Iowa’s and guess they should be similar) is 117 MM. Iowa cut sports this year so now they have 3-4 more sports than we do. No way that 3-4 more sports should run just under 20 MM more. Total schoolships for most schools don’t tally that amount.

Im not 100% clear if you are saying that 20mil should be enough to pay for 3/4 sports or not? Largely that depends on the sport and the capital needed to run said sport. MSU got rid of the diving team because the pool upgrades were going to be too expensive

 

[RezClone]

I would guess something along the lines of a Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was discussed at these alliance talks...
... Once the check clears, then we can divide them up like Poland...

Yes. This is what I come to CF for. Love it.