I would really like the new Big 12 to do this; create something similar to the CIC that the Big 10 has. If anything, it may help bring more research dollars to some of the non-AAU schools and thus increasing their academic rigor a little.
Big 12 Expansion (new thread)
- Thread starter Gilbyone
- Start date
I would really like the new Big 12 to do this; create something similar to the CIC that the Big 10 has. If anything, it may help bring more research dollars to some of the non-AAU schools and thus increasing their academic rigor a little.
Tom Osbourne kept the ship cruising with partial qualifiers and working the scholarship limits. When the NCAA said that a FB player on any scholarship counts towards the 85 and then the Big 12 phased out partials (this was before the big 10 did) Tommy saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship. His ego then was damaged when he wasn't getting his way like him and OU used to in the big 8 and OU was siding with Texas. That is when he pushed to move since NE knew that they were losing their AAU status.
We in the big 12 all saw what was happening and knew they weren't what they used to be. The big 10 took them on their past history which we knew was bad research since their past history was built on now non allowed things.
Except the numb nebby fans are crawling out of the woodwork around here after the NW crushing. Thrusting their chests out and saying the BIG West is there for the taking. But, the talking heads are definitely concerned about the recruiting numbers...basically the lowest the program has seen in the past 40 years. Now, if they keep winning, I suspect they pull in some of those more elite recruits...if not...
Nebraska has consistently had top 20-25 recruiting classes through Riley and Frost, much like they had with Pelini They have a bad 2022 class, but I’m not sure if that means much quite yet as it's much more of function of them having only 8 commits.
People need to stop with this correlation and not causation case with Frost losing having anything to do with being in the Big 10. Their recruiting hasn't suffered and their SOS in the Big 10 is lower than it was in the Big 12. They have been playing in what has consistently been one of the two worst power divisions since they joined.
They simply have a coach that isn't very good, and in Riley they had a mediocre coach. Pelini's success between the two conferences is nearly identical, and his predecessor was a big failure in the Big 12 because, wait for it, he wasn't a good head coach.
A relegation merger with the AAC would be a very outside of the box move as would a regional internal playoff situation.
But I would completely not watch a goddam game if the conference brings in that soccer bull ****
But I would completely not watch a goddam game if the conference brings in that soccer bull ****
I don’t really get the point of this. We are one of the best schools (if not the best school, BYU aside due to their uniqueness) in the new Big 12. Why don’t we just associate with similar schools that have similar academic profiles on the academic side, while doing the same with similar athletic programs on the athletic side in the Big 12? There’s no need - or benefit - to mixing the two. Keep the Big 12 an athletics conference and keep our academic affiliations like AAU focused on academics. Big 12 is not an academic consortium.
Unless I am mistaken, the Big 10's CIC (now Big 10 Academic Alliance) isn't going to add schools to the academic side without being in the athletic side. The only reason the University of Chicago has a role in the alliance is because they used to be a member of the Big 10 and were a part of the previous CIC. But nonetheless, it doesn't seem like this alliance is going to be adding any schools on academics only.
Therefore, we need to find out own ways to enhancing ISU's academic profile with the resources we have available. Additionally, I think an academic organization with the new members would also bring enhanced cohesion that was missing in the past.
Agree that Boise is a HARD PASS. Big 12 should only accept Memphis is we are CERTAIN the AZ schools and other Pac-12 teams are staying in the conference post their 2024 GOR extension. If we are going to 14 and can't poach a Pac-12 school. I want SDSU and Memphis. Both are basketball powerhouses. SDSU is building a brand new stadium. It's currently 35K seats but was designed for easier expansion to 55K. Now that the Chargers left SD. We could really push into a market with 3 million people in the MSA.
I'd love to throw Baylor out of the league and replace them with Memphis if that is an option right now
If the AZ schools are interested, we could have 4, 4 team pods in a 16 team Big 12.
East Pod - WVU, Cincy, UCF and Memphis
North/Central Pod - ISU, KU, KSU, OSU
South Pod - TX schools
West Pod - AZ, ASU, BYU, SDSU
For football you play everyone in your pod annually. Then play 2 teams from the other pods every other year. Guarantees you get home and away games with every member, every 4 years. Always get 1 game a year in Texas for football recruiting
That really further enhances the reality that the Big 12 is the DOMINANT basketball conference. Adds the fast growing markets of SLC, PHX and San Diego. Allows TV networks to have a conference game on at every time slot. Cuts down on travel. Weakest pod for football is the East... unless Fickell stays at UC. TCU, K-state and UCF are probably the lest desirable athletic departments.. But TCU gets a metroplex boost, UCF get a MASSIVE alumni, growing enrollment network, is in a recruiting hotbed and exploding metro. KSU has a recent elite 8, REALLY strong fan support and a gritty football coach who can get to 8 wins
Last edited:
The Big 10 Academic Alliance is not about sharing dollars. If the Big 12 were to do something similar, it would also not be about sharing dollars. The Big 10 Academic Alliance is about pooling library resources (access to journal articles and scholarly search engines) and "control" of research topics.
To be clear, TCU/Baylor/BYU are R2 schools. R2 schools are schools that emphasize teaching over research (though research still happens). The rest in the Big 12 are R1 schools. The R1 schools left in the Big 12 are pretty low on the research pecking order. Houston, for example, was just recently (historically) awarded R1 status along with West Virginia and K-State/Tech (surprisingly). I use the term "just" loosely to imply these schools haven't been research focused for very long. Oklahoma State is an R1 school, but pretty low on the academic profile. Iowa State and KU are in a different realm when it comes to research in the new Big 12. In the Big 10/Pac12 , ISU/KU would be middle of the pack. In the ACC, ISU/KU would be toward the top (but in the second tier).
My point: Athletics aren't doing much for academics/research. Rather, it's about control of what to research.
To be clear, TCU/Baylor/BYU are R2 schools. R2 schools are schools that emphasize teaching over research (though research still happens). The rest in the Big 12 are R1 schools. The R1 schools left in the Big 12 are pretty low on the research pecking order. Houston, for example, was just recently (historically) awarded R1 status along with West Virginia and K-State/Tech (surprisingly). I use the term "just" loosely to imply these schools haven't been research focused for very long. Oklahoma State is an R1 school, but pretty low on the academic profile. Iowa State and KU are in a different realm when it comes to research in the new Big 12. In the Big 10/Pac12 , ISU/KU would be middle of the pack. In the ACC, ISU/KU would be toward the top (but in the second tier).
My point: Athletics aren't doing much for academics/research. Rather, it's about control of what to research.
What makes you think associating with Houston and Kansas State and West Virginia on the academic side will RAISE Iowa State’s academic profile? We should be associating with similar AAU universities as much as possible.
People need to really look at that Big 10 academic alliance and look at what they actually do. It's really a big old nothingburger. It's a pooling of administrative costs to get economies of scale, and their estimated savings come out to what would be absolutely in the statistical noise of academic research dollars. They show things like these research collaborations, but ultimately the schools and consortium (which are formed all the time) still have to go out and get money independently.
Joining the Big 10 and getting in this academic alliance will not be a windfall to any school. Based on what they say they do and save the members it will be almost unnoticeable among the member schools. I am working with two Big 10 schools currently with research groups that have been highly successful for years. This alliance plays no role in getting the research managing the research. It's simply things like reduced cost to the university for scientific journal library access.
Yeah this is essentially correct. There is an emphasis on if you need another university to collaborate with that it should be a CIC school but there certainly isn’t a mandate and there are plenty of combined research projects outside of the CIC. It does make it incredibly easy to share information and provides excellent networking opportunities for students and facility but joining up wouldn’t be a crazy windfall of research dollars.
The league will wait and see what the PAC 12 tv contract is before they do anything it appears. Obviously the league will look at ASU/AZ/Col. and maybe Utah if available.
If appears the league will get paid roughly the same for 14 or 16, it probably is about strengthening existing regions in the new B12. Memphis provides a regional partner for WVU & Cincy and has a history of games with UCF. USF obviously gives UCF a regional partner. BSU gives BYU a regional partner, has solid ratings and play games in a 9 pm CST time slot for tv contracts. SDSU is kind of on an island and while SDSU is building a new stadium, this year they are only getting 10-11K in attendance. I don't know how inconvenient it is where they are playing but 10K? Even in 2019 when they were 10-3 and finished 2nd in their division of the MWC it was upper 20'sK in attendance. I know you mentioned ASU/AZ but I'm not sure I put a high probability on that happening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_San_Diego_State_Aztecs_football_team
I don't think SDSU is strong enough on its own to get an invite and needs regional partners like Arizona schools to fit in. SDSU also doesn't compare to Boise State as a football product tv revenue wise, even though SDSU has done ok on the field. I think I saw they were 3-3 the last 6 years against BSU. I wouldn't be surprised if you went through past tv ratings (throwing out 2020 due to covid) you hard pressed to find any signfigant ratings for SDSU and there are several for BSU.
College Football TV Ratings
College football TV ratings for the 2024 regular season, bowls, College Football Playoff and National Championship.
Last edited:
IF the B12 goes to 16, due to tv revenue numbers ok or needing that many for a scheduling alliance. The school everyone is going to hate to hear for 15 or 16 is SMU. I scoffed at first but I can see why they might get an invite at 16. SMU is really good academically, easy travel, intensifies Texas school rivalries, intensifies Texas media coverage of the B12, wealthy fan base which is good for advertising. The other thing is it sells tickets for Texahoma teams for home games(especially the Texas teams).
An example of is TCU when they hosted Cal 2nd game this season (Pac 12 school) they had 36.5K in attendance, when they hosted SMU this year they had 46.5K. 8K more tickets sold. You spread those tickets across all those teams in the region and that adds up. It did horrible for tv but was on FS1 at noon 186K viewers but interestingly later that day the top 2 school everyone on the board wants in ASU & Colorado played at 9:30 CST on ESPNU had less viewers at 170K.
With OU & UT the two at the top had a much higher tv value obviously than everyone else. With everyone a lot closer to the median the added inventory to pick the best game might be important to the league. If you strengthen the teams in each region, when both teams are good the rivalry games if on the right channel and time window can produce better ratings.
An example of is TCU when they hosted Cal 2nd game this season (Pac 12 school) they had 36.5K in attendance, when they hosted SMU this year they had 46.5K. 8K more tickets sold. You spread those tickets across all those teams in the region and that adds up. It did horrible for tv but was on FS1 at noon 186K viewers but interestingly later that day the top 2 school everyone on the board wants in ASU & Colorado played at 9:30 CST on ESPNU had less viewers at 170K.
With OU & UT the two at the top had a much higher tv value obviously than everyone else. With everyone a lot closer to the median the added inventory to pick the best game might be important to the league. If you strengthen the teams in each region, when both teams are good the rivalry games if on the right channel and time window can produce better ratings.
I'm honestly impressed they still get 10-11K in attendance. I only lived there for 3 months for work but there are about 100 other better things to do then go to a football game. SD is close to paradise. While I have said repeatedly that in game attendance doesn't matter with how excellent the home viewing situation is now (combined with how awful the in game experience is at most schools) 10K is pretty low even for cali covid times.
FriendlySpartan,
Unrelated, but did you see @fluempire tweets this morning about B1G & 16 teams if the SEC monetizes pods by going to 2 semi-final games? And the expansion has to come from two B12 teams.
Your thoughts?
How you say you’re rooting for the destruction of Iowa State athletics without really saying you’re rooting for the destruction of Iowa State athletics.
maybe you guys will finally get your long stated wish, your hawks will be the only p whatever team in the state.
I did but while I have heard about division changes for a little while I haven't heard anything about expansion coming from Big 12 schools. That would be a massive shift from what I heard a few months ago and personally would put little faith in that.
Seems unlikely to me, but he essentially says Alliance schools are off the list.
You continue to label me incorrectly. I do root for both ISU & Iowa but a slight ISU lean. I went to school somewhere else in Iowa but grew up watching them both.
My posts were not even advocating for those additions in the B12 but simply giving reasons why some are considering them.
