Texas forums/CF agree: new big 12 is 2nd tier G5 (edit)

[KidSilverhair]

The problem with that fumble is that Texas can't have it both ways. You can't want to keep moving the pile and having the play blown dead at the same time.

Jeremiah George and Schrodinger’s Fumble would disagree with you, in that Texas (at least used to) gets to have it both ways

ISU: Why wasn’t that a fumble?

Ref: His forward progress was stopped.

ISU: Did you blow the whistle?

Ref: No.

ISU: Why not?

Ref: I was waiting to see if his forward progress might continue.

 

[Clonedogg]

We have to make the most of what we’re given. I don’t ever expect an invite to another conference. The AAC is going to be equal with the Big 12 in the future unless the Big 12 can hang onto the P5 status. Eventually the other conferences are gonna vote it out because the Big 12 will be costing them spots in bigger bowl games and they will deem the conference lesser.

There is no P5 status to be voted on...there is Autonomy status which the Big12 has and it cannot be taken away, the only way would be if the Big12 decided to relinquish it on their own, or the conference disbanded. That's the primary reason why the best of the rest joined us and not the other way around.

 

[jbhtexas]

It isn't so much a commentary on OU vs these other schools as it is the other P-conferences vs the Big 12. Obviously OU has some pedigree on the national level. I just think the Big 12, for whatever reason, gets sand kicked in its face more often than not, it hurts OU (and UT), thus they are departing for greener pastures.

I don't think there is really any mystery as to the reason...the Big 12 gets sand kicked in its face because the Big 12's media "partners" are way more invested in other P5 conferences (SEC/Big Ten/ACC for ESPN and Big Ten/Pac-12 for FOX, although FOX doesn't seem to push the Pac-12 all that enthusiastically).

ESPN needs to drive viewers to the SEC and ACC networks. Promoting the virtues of the Big 12 isn't likely going to do that. Same for FOX and BTN.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

16 teams would get more playoff money, but the regular season viewership would fall off the map. Fans would be far less likely to watch any games but their own team in regular season.

8 team playoff has always been the obvious perfect sweet spot for these 12-13 game seasons and 110-140ish programs.

12 would be a mistake but still keep the regular season almost as good as it has always been, just not quite as good.

No #9 team entering bowls has ever had a legit NC claim. Several #5/#6 have.

I actually think you would have the opposite happen. By increasing the number of playoff slots, I actually think people would care more about the regular season. The 4 team playoff format is probably the worst thing college football could have ever done.

 

[JM4CY]

Lifetime Movie Channel script writer

That's generous. I could do some cheap porno flicks though.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I feel like they quickly approaching the “bring in a mediocre coach from the NFL” desperation move era.

As a Viking fan I heartily volunteer Mike Zimmer

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Maybe on this point. the other things I largely agree with but this has a TBD ...

if Clemson rights the ship and I think they probably will - they will drag the ACC up to being number 3. Because it'll be one elite program and a bunch of 7 to 8 win teams.

If and its a huge if, USC ever got its act together, the Pac 12 would be in that position.


Could the new conference be the 3rd best? Yes, it absolutely could be. But its a bit too early to say without a doubt it will be. Strong possibility? Sure. But the race for 3rd might fluctuate year to year

The ACC doesn't need Clemson to win, they need Miami, Florida St, and Va Tech to pull their heads out of their a$$es. Clemson alone doesn't lift the ACC, they need some serious help.

 

[AuH2O]

It isn't so much a commentary on OU vs these other schools as it is the other P-conferences vs the Big 12. Obviously OU has some pedigree on the national level. I just think the Big 12, for whatever reason, gets sand kicked in its face more often than not, it hurts OU (and UT), thus they are departing for greener pastures.

I think people are viewing how the Big 12 gets treated vs. the SEC and Big 10, and think that it's an anti-Big 12 bias in the media. The media does not think the Big 12 is great, but it completely knows that the PAC 12 sucks. Utah is pretty clearly the second best team in the league and ASU is 3rd. Utah is getting 34 votes. ISU is getting 21, and ASU got 1. Meanwhile ACCs Clemson got 3 votes. All these teams are 6-3 BTW.

So relative to the ACC or PAC there is no anti-Big 12 bias in the media, at least not in any real way that can be shown with evidence. The media loves the SEC and Big 10, and the other three conferences are a step down. But the media also votes ISU ahead of Clemson and ASU with the same records.

So of course the media is going to view the SEC better than the new Big 12, because it certainly is. They will view the Big 10 as being better, but the Big 10 has always been drastically overrated by the media.

But if people think the media is suddenly going to flip and start thinking the PAC and ACC are part of a "big 4" they aren't. The newest AP poll that the media votes on has 5/12 new Big 12 teams ranked, 1/14 PAC team and 3/14 ACC teams. Utah and ISU are close to being ranked. Clemson and ASU got a couple straggler votes probably by their own media people.

 

[ISUTex]

Can we get something in writing letting the world know that Texas sucks right now, in the Big 12? They are Iowa State's *****? They aren't going to suck just because they go to the SEC.

 

[Cyclones1969]

If we are discussing the new B12 as "2nd Tier" in terms of a P5 conference, then yes, the new B12 will realistically be a 2nd tier conference behind the SEC and B10. However, with current contracts and the B12 negotiating their own new TV contract, it is not hard to imagine the new B12 as a strong competitor between the P12 and ACC for the 3rd spot (albeit in a clear revenue tier below the first two). I think that rights holders are definitely watching viewership #s and attendance going into negotiations and the new B12 teams have been competitive with ACC and certainly P12 this past year.

Although there will still be a revenue drop, the drop has been greatly overstated from initial reports and is now expected to be in the $3-4M/yr range which is notable but by no means an incredible setback. I think that in a "perfect world" ISU would love to be in the B10 as it would be more regional but this is a great alternative and it should be a fantastically competitive league in FB and MBB.

I think that we should watch what happens in the upcoming negotiations for all conferences before making sweeping generalizations

 

[KnappShack]

I think for a while they went pendulum - they thought they were getting too soft under Mack and brought in a hard-liner in Strong. That blew up, so they went back to player-friendly Herman. Sark was just a desperate reach.

It really has to be just a matter of time before Jason Garrett gets a call from an Austin area code

 

[jcyclonee]

That's generous. I could do some cheap porno flicks though.

You are too creative for LMN. Cheap porn would be good for you.

 

[RustShack]

We’ll see what happens in a few years when media negotiations begin. If the SEC goes to a pod system and adds a semi final game to its conference championship, the other conferences sure has hell won’t stand still at 12-14 teams. They will get to 16 and add the semi final game too.

 

[CascadeClone]

I don't understand the devaluing the regular season argument by expanding the playoffs. Halfway through the season every team outside the top 15 is all but eliminated from playoff contention. Right now every team outside the top 10 or so is pretty much eliminated.

If there was a 16 team playoff every ranked team and several unranked teams are still playing for a playoff spot at this point. Does it take some juice away from a top 5 team's game if they have all but secured a spot in the playoff? Sure. But there are FAR more games that go from meaningless to important in an expanded playoff.

I do think 8 is ideal, but I really don't think having 16 would be a net loss in regular season interest.

I think the devaluing argument is that there is ALREADY too much noise about the CFP from the get go. It's like nothing else matters and unless you are in the CFP your season sucked.

 

[knowlesjam]

Can we get something in writing letting the world know that Texas sucks right now, in the Big 12? They are Iowa State's *****? They aren't going to suck just because they go to the SEC.

Wait until they actually start playing in the SEC and are again magically ranked #10 or so in the preseason polls...

 

[AppleCornCy]

We’re going to have quite a few teams from the new Big 12 in the final rankings this season. Cincinnati, BYU, and Oklahoma State almost certainly, potentially Houston if they run the table until the AAC championship game, and probably at least one if not two out of Iowa State, Baylor, and even Kansas State.

 

[NoCreativity]

Watch, Beard will have them relevant while their football program sinks to Nebraska levels of ineptness. Then we'll get to hear how they are a "basketball school" now.

 

[HFCS]

I actually think you would have the opposite happen. By increasing the number of playoff slots, I actually think people would care more about the regular season. The 4 team playoff format is probably the worst thing college football could have ever done.

I watch Alabama now when I think they might lose and some team is pushing them.

I'd never watch them when I know they have to lose 3-4 times to be out. I mean I might watch the championship game, no way I'm watching top 5 teams that aren't "my team" when I know they need to lose 4 times to get eliminated.

16 teams means the best part of college football...that every game counts all season...is flung out the window for teams like Ohio State and Alabama. Alabama can mail in some games and make it in...ffs Ohio State has mailed in some games in a 4 team format and you can tell the voters in the polls just want them in automatically.

I watch "my team" whether we are on the cusp of a 4 team playoff or a 64 team playoff, it's other teams where I'm only interested because of the almost single elimination format.

A team like Ohio State where the committee is rigged for them...it would be absolutely infuriating to watch them lose knowing they are going to get shoe horned into the top 16 no matter what happens. They change the rules most years already for them to get in the top 4, they'll never be left out of the top 16.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I think the devaluing argument is that there is ALREADY too much noise about the CFP from the get go. It's like nothing else matters and unless you are in the CFP your season sucked.

I said it way before all of the back door dealings ESPN did with the SEC but they have had WAY too much skin in the game ever since the 4 team format started. They have played a critical role in getting certain teams bumped up in the rankings because they want the TV numbers. Their little Tuesday night ranking show has been a valuable mouthpiece to get certain teams bumped up. Going to 8 or 12 would correct a lot of this and college football needs the parity. It can't be all about 6 teams every year. Worst case scenario, you starting spreading the money around and that would be a good thing.

 

[HFCS]

I don't understand the devaluing the regular season argument by expanding the playoffs. Halfway through the season every team outside the top 15 is all but eliminated from playoff contention. Right now every team outside the top 10 or so is pretty much eliminated.

If there was a 16 team playoff every ranked team and several unranked teams are still playing for a playoff spot at this point. Does it take some juice away from a top 5 team's game if they have all but secured a spot in the playoff? Sure. But there are FAR more games that go from meaningless to important in an expanded playoff.

I do think 8 is ideal, but I really don't think having 16 would be a net loss in regular season interest.

There's a 0% chance I'm going to watch Ohio State or Alabama if they are in the top 5 and a lock for a 16 team playoff with several games left.

With a four team playoff I'll tune in knowing they could get knocked out.

My own team I'm watching whether they are #4 or #114.

My casual viewership of other games would pretty much end, with the possible exception of a conference foe we need to lose to get into a CCG.