*** Official #25 Texas Tech vs #11 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[twincyties]

Looks like a pretty straightforward pass/layup to me: I dunno maybe it got knocked out of his hands by the off-balance defender but it didn't really look like it.

These guys just have bewilderingly bad ball security at times. Outside of TH, I had very little faith in any of them dribbling in traffic in this game -- and that would include IB in this situation. With that officiating crew, there's no guarantee that a foul would've been called before the ball was stolen. Second-guessing IB's decision to make a fairly routine fast-break pass is just armchair quarterbacking.

Agree this should be routine for players at this level, but just seemed unnecessary given the circumstances. There were two guys on that break and he’s going full speed throwing pass across his body. One defender nearly got a hand on it. There was really no need to try to get a run out right there except to get away from defenders and eat clock. You don’t need a bucket right there.

 

[HFCS]

You are not allowed to change your shot to force contact into a defender. It's a force of emphasis in the NBA for refs to watch, as for the last 8 years or so (mostly done by Harden and Steph), guys would jump into defenders, stick out their elbow or leg to gain an advantage.

Last night's call was close, but you can see the Tech player lean his elbow into Kunc to make contact for a foul. If it doesn't hit him in the face would they have called it a foul on Kunc? I think so, but any contact made above the shoulders by the offense is going to be called some sort of foul usually.

Did Kunc even touch him other than face to elbow?

Im saying who out here is seeing defenders called for fouling elbows with their face? The first one I see will be the only one I’ve seen.

 

[isufbcurt]

Agree this should be routine for players at this level, but just seemed unnecessary given the circumstances. There were two guys on that break and he’s going full speed throwing pass across his body. One defender nearly got a hand on it.

I agree it was unnecessary. In that situation IB needs to be the alpha dog, know the time and situation and just be like "this is my ball and you are going to have to foul me while I run the clock down and make my free throws". No need to pass the ball there.

 

[goody2012]

Did Kunc even touch him other than face to elbow?

Im saying who out here is seeing defenders called for fouling elbows with their face? The first one I see will be the only one I’ve seen.

Yes, I've seen it.

 

[jbhtexas]

Many times last night we had a driving lane and didn't take it or drove halfway then passed it. That was driving me nuts.

A few weeks ago Dan Patrick had Charles Barkley on his show, and CB was lamenting the bolded about the NBA as well...guys are turning down or bailing out on relatively easy drives to the bucket. CB says it makes games unwatchable, which is a bad deal for him, since his job is to watch NBA games...

In the case of the NBA, many times this what the players are coached to do. Is this what kids are taught in AAU and high school? It would be curious to know what the ISU coaching staff's philosophy is.

 

[Statefan10]

Did Kunc even touch him other than face to elbow?

Im saying who out here is seeing defenders called for fouling elbows with their face? The first one I see will be the only one I’ve seen.

No no Kunc never touched him. I think he was close to that "cylinder" rule or whatever but Kunc was not hugging him or anything. His face was the only thing that was in the cylinder and a defender will not get called for a foul for getting hit in the face, you're 100% right.

 

[isufbcurt]

A few weeks ago Dan Patrick had Charles Barkley on his show, and CB was lamenting the bolded about the NBA as well...guys are turning down or bailing out on relatively easy drives to the bucket. CB says it makes games unwatchable, which is a bad deal for him, since his job is to watch NBA games...

In the case of the NBA, many times this what the players are coached to do. Is this what kids are taught in AAU and high school? It would be curious to know what the ISU coaching staff's philosophy is.

The philosophy should be "make the easy play and take the points if they are there"

I agree with Barkley 100%

 

[madguy30]

On BartTorivk we got a game score of 97 and had a 6.6 point lead on average the entire game. I don't know how you get much better than that but reading through the game thread you would have thought it was a Prohm coached team vs Tech.

Posters just finally saw last night that ISU has a hard time getting open on O especially vs a team like that.

There was some 'playing down to the competition' talk last night like Tech is so inferior?

Weird wild stuff.

 

[Statefan10]

Yes, I've seen it.

Defenders may get called for the cylinder rule or going into a guy but if you get hit in the face, the refs are going to go to the monitor and check and see if it's enough for a F1. You won't get called for your face making contact and if you do it's simply not a good call nor the correct one. Even if it's incidental, you're not allowed to make contact above the shoulders.

 

[moores2]

Defenders may get called for the cylinder rule or going into a guy but if you get hit in the face, the refs are going to go to the monitor and check and see if it's enough for a F1. You won't get called for your face making contact and if you do it's simply not a good call nor the correct one. Even if it's incidental, you're not allowed to make contact above the shoulders.

I think on the plus side of this. Kunc had a defensive position that was legal. He wasn't moving to contest, he stood there with his arms up in legal position through the whole shot. I think that is what it came down to.

 

[goody2012]

Defenders may get called for the cylinder rule or going into a guy but if you get hit in the face, the refs are going to go to the monitor and check and see if it's enough for a F1. You won't get called for your face making contact and if you do it's simply not a good call nor the correct one. Even if it's incidental, you're not allowed to make contact above the shoulders.

If you're in the cylinder it's a foul on the defender, doesn't matter what body part it is.

 

[CascadeClone]

If you're in the cylinder it's a foul on the defender, doesn't matter what body part it is.

Even if it's the defender's weiner?

 

[goody2012]

Even if it's the defender's weiner?

If the weiner is invading their space...

 

[Statefan10]

If you're in the cylinder it's a foul on the defender, doesn't matter what body part it is.

You're not allowed to make contact with a player above the shoulder even if they're in the cylinder. I've seen refs call a cylinder foul on the defender but go to the monitor and call a flagrant 1 or a flagrant 2.

 

[goody2012]

You're not allowed to make contact with a player above the shoulder even if they're in the cylinder. I've seen refs call a cylinder foul on the defender but go to the monitor and call a flagrant 1 or a flagrant 2.

Then why wasn't it a flagrant?

 

[jbhtexas]

On BartTorivk we got a game score of 97 and had a 6.6 point lead on average the entire game. I don't know how you get much better than that but reading through the game thread you would have thought it was a Prohm coached team vs Tech.

ISU trailed with 2 minutes left in the game and made 3 FGs in the second half. It could be that a stats site might not completely convey the entire context of the game.

 

[AuH2O]

Even if it's the defender's weiner?

Reminds me of when my kid was maybe 4 or 5 and he was asking how to determine if you are down in football. Went through a few scenarios, and then asked in all seriousness if you were down if you balanced on your weiner, then used a hand to push off the ground and get back up. Maybe we need one of those "You make the call" commercials from the 80s on that.

 

[HFCS]

Yes, I've seen it.

Is if common in college? Fouling an elbow with a face and no other contact?

I mainly watch NBA but have never seen face foul to elbow in an ISU game. 25 years ago it’s a no call in the nba, not a foul on guy who took it on chin. Now it’s 100% automatic call on guy giving the elbow and it doesn’t matter if it was a normal basketball motion or not, just tough break if it was a normal motion.

Here’s what I think happened… The announcer was really weird acting like Jaz for sure fouled him face to elbow. Twitter ran with that. Now we’ve got a KU fan here worried ISU gets away with face to elbow fouls.

 

[Halincandenza]

You're not allowed to make contact with a player above the shoulder even if they're in the cylinder. I've seen refs call a cylinder foul on the defender but go to the monitor and call a flagrant 1 or a flagrant 2.

Depends on the motion. If a guys is just in a natural shooting motion that won't be called. If guy rakes his elbows across the guys face that is different.

 

[Statefan10]

Then why wasn't it a flagrant?

Because they determined it wasn't enough to grant a flagrant. You know as well as I do that it's a judgement call and not every call is made the same.