3 games in; how good is the offense?

[cymonw1980]

Pretty good I'd say. The O-Line is shaping up to be the best we've seen in the Campbell era, sans the 2020 season, and they get some good push in the run game which is something we've maybe never seen. The RB room very good, and very deep, though I think would have some concern is J. Brock went down. Sanders and Silas are clearly more complementary type backs and I'd be concerned if one of them had to carry a full load or if it were down to just the two of them in a committee.

One thing that has frustrated me so far is the passing game, with the amount of throws to the flats, 4-5 yard outs, 8-10 yard crossing patterns and slants etc. When the blocking is there, these plays can appear 'explosive', but what I'd like to see if more downfield stuff. We know Dekkers has the arm. Is the issue in offensive scheme or in WR talent? X and Noel are really good in space, but not sure either of them are burners. Is the missing piece someone that can take the top off of a defense, or is it just not schemed to move the ball like that? I am fine with getting 7-8 yards per play, and the offense has a nice flow to it so far, but I'd like to see us tee up a few more home run opportunities. Final scores of 42-10 vs SEMO and 43-10 vs Ohio are great, but look around the conference a little bit:

Kansas beat Tennessee Tech 56-10
WVU beat Towson 65-7
Texas Tech beat Murray St 63-10
Oklahoma State has put up 58 and 63 in games this year

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, but it'd be nice to see a result like one of the above at some point, and I'm trying to figure out why we don't ever see it. 70-21 v.s Louisiana Monroe a few years back is the closest I've seen a Campbell-led ISU team get.

I am very encouraged by the offense - especially the o-line.

We were up 30-3 at the half vs. ohio. We put a lot of backups into that game. I am not concerned with 40's vs. 50s, 60s. I think they have shown the ability to score quickly, over come penalties and negative plays, etc. A year ago, if we got a penalty the drive was basically over.

I think the only thing that concerns me a bit on offense is the turnovers. If you are playing iowa and they get one or two.. ok, but three is too many. Don't like the TO's vs. SEMo, Ohio. Got to be cleaner. It will get tougher in conf play.. 1 TO vs. Ohio might be 2 vs. a conference opponent.

But I love the resiliency of the offense; seem to bounce back quickly after a negative play, set back. They are fun to watch.

To me, ceiling for this team will come down to special teams (we have 3 blocked kicks, could easily have had one more vs. SE Mo), and TOs.

 

[Jer]

I’m not worried about the Offense… as it sits right now.

I worry about what happens if/when there are injuries as I think we have a steep fall off in certain positions – WR being the biggest.

X is pro-ready, but if he’s out a game or more, I don’t think we have guys getting the necessary separation as it is, let alone if the D wouldn’t have to account for X. Hunter is going to be good, but he’s gotten away with some easy dropped INTs, and if he has to push into tighter coverage, that could be a problem.

The OL isn't consistent enough yet, and again, not necessarily deep. We'll know against Baylor if they're ready.

We’re good at RB.

I would say I’m a little concerned about defense, but only because we haven’t had to see much. They did good this past week against Ohio, but that wasn’t the likes of what we’ll see most weeks going forward. It always takes them a bit to get into their groove though so this weekend will tell us everything we need to know.

ST sucks.

 

[IowaState88]

I do get annoyed by these constant 2-3 yard passes. The problem is I don't think we have that barn burning speed guy. Scates had that speed, but he is gone and didn't work out at ISU. Do I think with a guy like Dekkers that Scates could've gotten more catches? Absolutely. Our play calling on offense doesn't excite me and I'd like to try some longer throws and less two yard passes with receivers setting screens. When we go against better teams with stronger and faster secondary's then it may not work as well. Baylor has a tough defense so I'm intrigued to see if we spread the ball a little further down the ends or continue with the play calling we've been doing these first three games. It'll also be interesting to see if we sling it more because some of these short throws could have something to do with trying to get Dekkers more comfortable and confident since he's only started three games now.

Tom Manning has been phenomenal in these first 3 games. He is calling plays to the strength of this team and that has shown in a 42 and 43 point performance and at 10 point win vs one of the nations top defenses in the rain (should've been 21 or 24 points - if not for a fumble and INT thrown on goal line).

This isn't a direct shot at you but mostly to fans in general who always seem to resort to an offense needing to "throw the ball further down the field" or "open the offense up more and sling it." Intended air yards (which means the amount of yards the ball travels in the air on a pass) does not always equate to offensive success. Especially when, like you stated in your post, when ISU is playing stronger and faster secondaries who can run with and match the athleticism of our WRs.

It is known that, especially in the B12, an offense is not gonna score every single time they have the ball. That's just football. So in that case coaches know that a drive of a rush for 3 yards, intermediate pass incompletion and then a deep pass incompletion taking about 1 minute is much more detrimental to the team and your chances of winning than a drive of a rush for 3 yards, 4 yard pass completion, 5 yard pass resulting in a first down, and repeating that but then potentially getting stopped and having to punt.

 

[Aclone]

Tom Manning has been phenomenal in these first 3 games. He is calling plays to the strength of this team and that has shown in a 42 and 43 point performance and at 10 point win vs one of the nations top defenses in the rain (should've been 21 or 24 points - if not for a fumble and INT thrown on goal line).

This isn't a direct shot at you but mostly to fans in general who always seem to resort to an offense needing to "throw the ball further down the field" or "open the offense up more and sling it." Intended air yards (which means the amount of yards the ball travels in the air on a pass) does not always equate to offensive success. Especially when, like you stated in your post, when ISU is playing stronger and faster secondaries who can run with and match the athleticism of our WRs.

It is known that, especially in the B12, an offense is not gonna score every single time they have the ball. That's just football. So in that case coaches know that a drive of a rush for 3 yards, intermediate pass incompletion and then a deep pass incompletion taking about 1 minute is much more detrimental to the team and your chances of winning than a drive of a rush for 3 yards, 4 yard pass completion, 5 yard pass resulting in a first down, and repeating that but then potentially getting stopped and having to punt.

This is fair, and I agree.

That said, with Dimitri Stanley healthy again (he was sick, not injured), I still think we see Dekkers going downfield to him as he becomes more integrated to the offense.

 

[Jriddge28]

If we see Dekkers throw more down field as the season progresses, I think that’s fine. You can see that he’s capable of over confidence (which could translate to picks), so I’m good with him taking what the defense is giving while he settles in.

 

[Jer]

I think what you see is that Dekkers has an above average arm strength but thus far average mental set (balancing confidence, reads, check downs, coverage, etc). Only time will tell how much he grows in that area with game action. It’s a strength and liability at the moment.

 

[twincyties]

I think what you see is that Dekkers has an above average arm strength but thus far average mental set (balancing confidence, reads, check downs, coverage, etc). Only time will tell how much he grows in that area with game action. It’s a strength and liability at the moment.

Agree. Hunter is not going on I be able to get away with some of the stuff he’s been doing in Big 12 play. We saw this against Iowa and are lucky it was only 2 picks.

 

[Aclone]

I think what you see is that Dekkers has an above average arm strength but thus far average mental set (balancing confidence, reads, check downs, coverage, etc). Only time will tell how much he grows in that area with game action. It’s a strength and liability at the moment.

I think that “mental set” directly translates to “game experience”.

That said, I understand some guy named Favre made mistakes throughout his NFL career as well…and he seemed to do okay.

 

[IowaState88]

I’m not worried about the Offense… as it sits right now.

I worry about what happens if/when there are injuries as I think we have a steep fall off in certain positions – WR being the biggest.

X is pro-ready, but if he’s out a game or more, I don’t think we have guys getting the necessary separation as it is, let alone if the D wouldn’t have to account for X. Hunter is going to be good, but he’s gotten away with some easy dropped INTs, and if he has to push into tighter coverage, that could be a problem.

The OL isn't consistent enough yet, and again, not necessarily deep. We'll know against Baylor if they're ready.

We’re good at RB.

I would say I’m a little concerned about defense, but only because we haven’t had to see much. They did good this past week against Ohio, but that wasn’t the likes of what we’ll see most weeks going forward. It always takes them a bit to get into their groove though so this weekend will tell us everything we need to know.

ST sucks.

Getting Norton and Remsburg back will be huge, just need them to be fully healthy. Remsburg will help with the stability on the OL and IMO J. Brock and C. Norton (when healthy) are a really really good 1-2 punch. Sanders is serviceable now but still a year or two away from contributing a ton. Silas is fun and can be used sparingly and in certain packages.

We really need another receiver to step up and be CONSISTENT. X is one of the best in the country but to find sustained success on O a 2nd/3rd option need to be established. Noel and Shaw have show us glimpses but we need more than glimpses.

In contrast to you Jeremy, I have been by far the most impressed by this defense. The Cylones boast a -0.099 EPA per play on defense - VERY VERY good - ahead of Bama and Michigan and just behind Georgia who is at -0.129 EPA per play. Iowa State is 5th in the nation in run defense and 25th in passing yards given up. DLine has been impressive and that is even with a partially healthy Will McD. CBs have shown growth. Excited to see how this D looks vs the B12. Lets GO!

 

[StPaulCyclone]

In 2018, Purdy and ISU attacked deep pretty often. Likely in large part because of Hakeem Butler (he had over 1,300 yards averaging 22 yards per catch that year). And when Butler wasn't open Deshante Jones and a better Tarique Milton were zipping around. Anything from line of scrimmage to 40+ yards was a threat that defenses had to cover.

Other than losing Bulter, which was huge, I’m not sure what diminished the deep ball attack for us after 2018. Was pass protection worse? Wideouts not getting open? Purdy taking step backwards? Play calling more conservative? Tight ends developing and taking targets away from deep threats?

Whatever the reasons, we are still not attacking downfield very often. A new quarterback, different receivers and offensive line, but mostly same coaches…maybe 2018 was just a perfect combination of all those factors.

If Xavier wasn’t so great at getting open from around 5-12 yards out, we’d be forced to look elsewhere, but not smart to swing for the fences every at bat when you know you can get on base with a grounder.

Thank you. It’s never just one thing and may have been all of those things to a degree. People love there silver bullets though and to heap blame on individual players or coaches. @$#& is complicated.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

Some good, fair comments in here regarding the QB position. However, I don’t understand why some have to #&@$ on Purdy to praise Dekkers upside and potential. Purdy wasn’t perfect, but he’s the best QB in ISU history. Hopefully, Dekkers surpasses him and people can leave Brock’s legacy alone during and after Hunter’s tenure. In the meantime, it is possible to appreciate them both.

 

[twincyties]

Some good, fair comments in here regarding the QB position. However, I don’t understand why some have to #&@$ on Purdy to praise Dekkers upside and potential. Purdy wasn’t perfect, but he’s the best QB in ISU history. Hopefully, Dekkers surpasses him and people can leave Brock’s legacy alone during and after Hunter’s tenure. In the meantime, it is possible to appreciate them both.

This is a totally fair point.

I think it’s natural to compare any player to individual in that position before and after them.

I also think some people here are frustrated with some of Purdy’s mistakes during big moments. For “our best ever” he had some really boneheaded moments and obvious limitations to his game. In fairness, expectations last year were the highest they’ve ever been and first time in my 40+ years as a fan that I’ve seen our fan base go beyond underdog mentality and really get their hopes up. I’m sure this contributes.

Last, I’d say it’s well documented here that some people in the program - if given their way - would have seen more Dekkers last year.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

This is a totally fair point.

I think it’s natural to compare any player to individual in that position before and after them.

I also think some people here are frustrated with some of Purdy’s mistakes during big moments. For “our best ever” he had some really boneheaded moments and obvious limitations to his game. In fairness, expectations last year were the highest they’ve ever been and first time in my 40+ years as a fan that I’ve seen our fan base go beyond underdog mentality and really get their hopes up. I’m sure this contributes.

Last, I’d say it’s well documented here that some people in the program - if given their way - would have seen more Dekkers last year.

This is fair too.

I think it’s fair to compare too, but the comparisons seem to be targeting Brock’s negatives. Comparisons are also not fair when you are comparing an entire career to the beginning of one. I am also concerned that we are setting up Hunter for quick and undue criticism if doesnt live up to people‘s immedicate…expectations? I am not even sure it’s expectactions, many have already anointed him.

I think Purdy’s limitations have been covered here ad nauseam. The stars around him were mostly from CMC’s first class. These #&@$ing warriors overachieved and willed the program to heights it hadn’t seen in a while or ever. In doing so, there was some high risk high reward play.

As a result, Brock made a few big mistakes at big moments. I get it and a contingent here intends for us to never forget. There is soooo much more pressure in sustaining success than achieving it. People are disappointed in last season and Brock is easy to point to as the QB.

Yet, he took us to levels where we could even feel great disappointment. I’ve been a fan too long not to appreciate all that Purdy did for this program. Including last season, behind an OLine cobbled together out of Guards. But again, it can’t be that there were other limitations and contributing factors that led to mistakes. Nope, let’s remove all context and single out one player. JFC, I thought OU was going to kill him.

As CMC says, it’s hard to win here. Some bad is going to come with the good. Hunter, I am prepared to defend to too when JJ arrives and some start comparing potential to experience again.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Getting Norton and Remsburg back will be huge, just need them to be fully healthy. Remsburg will help with the stability on the OL and IMO J. Brock and C. Norton (when healthy) are a really really good 1-2 punch. Sanders is serviceable now but still a year or two away from contributing a ton. Silas is fun and can be used sparingly and in certain packages.

We really need another receiver to step up and be CONSISTENT. X is one of the best in the country but to find sustained success on O a 2nd/3rd option need to be established. Noel and Shaw have show us glimpses but we need more than glimpses.

In contrast to you Jeremy, I have been by far the most impressed by this defense. The Cylones boast a -0.099 EPA per play on defense - VERY VERY good - ahead of Bama and Michigan and just behind Georgia who is at -0.129 EPA per play. Iowa State is 5th in the nation in run defense and 25th in passing yards given up. DLine has been impressive and that is even with a partially healthy Will McD. CBs have shown growth. Excited to see how this D looks vs the B12. Lets GO!

I think with Xavier, you take what the defense is giving you. If they try to play him straight up, you look at him every time, because he's too good. If they try to take him away, you spread it around as needed (but he'll probably still be open sometimes).

 

[twincyties]

This is fair too.

I think it’s fair to compare too, but the comparisons seem to be targeting Brock’s negatives. Comparisons are also not fair when you are comparing an entire career to the beginning of one. I am also concerned that we are setting up Hunter for quick and undue criticism if doesnt live up to people‘s immedicate…expectations? I am not even sure it’s expectactions, many have already anointed him.

I think Purdy’s limitations have been covered here ad nauseam. The stars around him were mostly from CMC’s first class. These #&@$ing warriors overachieved and willed the program to heights it hadn’t seen in a while or ever. In doing so, there was some high risk high reward play.

As a result, Brock made a few big mistakes at big moments. I get it and a contingent here intends for us to never forget. There is soooo much more pressure in sustaining success than achieving it. People are disappointed in last season and Brock is easy to point to as the QB.

Yet, he took us to levels where we could even feel great disappointment. I’ve been a fan too long not to appreciate all that Purdy did for this program. Including last season, behind an OLine cobbled together out of Guards. But again, it can’t be that there were other limitations and contributing factors that led to mistakes. Nope, let’s remove all context and single out one player. JFC, I thought OU was going to kill him.

As CMC says, it’s hard to win here. Some bad is going to come with the good. Hunter, I am prepared to defend to too when JJ arrives and some start comparing potential to experience again.

Agree on all these points. I think this boils down to unrealized expectations last year and QB is always going to get more blame just like they get more credit.

I will also publicly eat crow for thinking Purdy wasn’t going to make an NFL roster. I just didn’t think his game would translate to the NFL. Of course, there is a huge gap between being third string and being a starter. But will admit I did not see this coming. He’s a Jimmy G injury away from starting for the 49ers.

What’s crazy to think about is that we could go from Purdy to Dekkers (who I still think will end up surpassing Purdy as our best ever if consider he’s got 2 full seasons after this), to JJ Kohl who is our highest QB recruit ever.

 

[Steve]

This is fair, and I agree.

That said, with Dimitri Stanley healthy again (he was sick, not injured), I still think we see Dekkers going downfield to him as he becomes more integrated to the offense.

Stanley will help the team more by improving on the routine plays compared to simply running fast. He still gets the benefit of the doubt because he just arrived this summer, but his time at Colorado should be helping him improve on the fundamentals. He needs to contribute more than he has shown to date in areas such as blocking, route running, and contested catching. These skills are more important to this offense than rolling the dice on an all or nothing play. If he picks up his game in these areas, he will get the opportunity to show what he can do on deep routes. We have been spoiled because almost every receiver who sees the field under CMC does the little things right. Hopefully it rubs off and he is able to show what he can do.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

Agree on all these points. I think this boils down to unrealized expectations last year and QB is always going to get more blame just like they get more credit.

I will also publicly eat crow for thinking Purdy wasn’t going to make an NFL roster. I just didn’t think his game would translate to the NFL. Of course, there is a huge gap between being third string and being a starter. But will admit I did not see this coming. He’s a Jimmy G injury away from starting for the 49ers.

What’s crazy to think about is that we could go from Purdy to Dekkers (who I still think will end up surpassing Purdy as our best ever if consider he’s got 2 full seasons after this), to JJ Kohl who is our highest QB recruit ever.

I agree, I think for some the disappointment of unrealized 2021 expectations, as well as not beating iowa makes Purdy a target for extra criticism. I also wonder if Hunter gets more grace/hype, because he‘s from Iowa.

what’s surprising to me is if the 49ers had been able to unload Jimmy, Brock would be the starter. They stated that they intended him to be the backup. Has our disappointment clouded how good he really was/is and his potential at the next level?

I hope Hunter breaks all of his records and JJ repeats. We’ve had a hell of a run of great RBs and may be starting a similar run at the QB position.

I appreciate this thoughtful exchange. Thank you.

 

[TedKumsher]

What twilight zone did I step into? People agreeing and saying that other's opinions are fair? I didn't think that was allowed on the interwebs.

 

[Aclone]

X has more receiving yards than next 5 Cyclones combined.

To complement this statement:

(Hint: It isn’t a criticism of the rest of our receivers)

Edit: Link isn’t coming up the way I’d like. If you look at reception leaders by total catches, X has twice as many catches right now as anyone in the conference except one guy from WVU.

Big 12 Conference

The official 2022 Football cumulative statistics for Big 12 Conference

big12sports.com

 

[Aclone]

Stanley will help the team more by improving on the routine plays compared to simply running fast. He still gets the benefit of the doubt because he just arrived this summer, but his time at Colorado should be helping him improve on the fundamentals. He needs to contribute more than he has shown to date in areas such as blocking, route running, and contested catching. These skills are more important to this offense than rolling the dice on an all or nothing play. If he picks up his game in these areas, he will get the opportunity to show what he can do on deep routes. We have been spoiled because almost every receiver who sees the field under CMC does the little things right. Hopefully it rubs off and he is able to show what he can do.

I’m not sure how valid these observations of Dimitri Stanley’s game are. During summer camp CMC and others commented on what an excellent route runner Dimitri is, and one of the players (X, I believe) commented on how he fit into the team as if he’d always been here.

The latter of which sounds to me like he was already doing all of those “little things” you mentioned all of our receivers who see the field are already doing.

Oh, and I’m pretty sure that no one at all said anything about him helping the team by “simply running fast”.