ESPN, Fox Open Discussions for Next Big 12 Deal

Die4Cy

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I'm sorry I have missed it but what does the ACC currently make right now? The Big 12 will still be making less than them with this deal? I thought their deal was really bad, is that just because it goes til 2036 or something?

Big 12 was third in distributions for 2020-21. ACC schools got $36.1M to their schools and Big 12 got $36.5M. ACC did not publicly announce what their distributions this year would be beyond saying they were "significant." At least I have not been able to find them. Big 12 paying out $42.6M.

The fact that they are not stating publicly is all you need to know IMO.
 
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RustShack

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I'm sorry I have missed it but what does the ACC currently make right now? The Big 12 will still be making less than them with this deal? I thought their deal was really bad, is that just because it goes til 2036 or something?

Big12 already made more than the ACC, and now makes even more. Also goes to the table for more again before the ACC.
 

Stormin

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This whole article is interesting but especially the part about how ESPN is using the amount they pay the ACC as a ceiling they don’t want to go over in their deals with the Big12 and Pac12. I’m not sure I understand how the math all works given we know per school payouts to the ACC are lagging but their deal with ESPN is supposedly on par with the other conferences. At any rate, here’s what the article says:



Big 12 deal puts focus on where Pac-12 will land​

Now that the Big 12 has secured six-year deals with ESPN and Fox Sports worth $2.28 billion, all eyes are on the Pac-12, which got out of its exclusive negotiating window with ESPN and Fox three weeks ago. This is what we know.

  • ESPN and Amazon Prime remain the front runners to pick up Pac-12 rights, with agreements potentially coming by the end of the year. It’s too early to describe what’s in those packages with any accuracy. But it’s important to note that ESPN’s Big 12 deal does not take it out of the running for Pac-12 rights. And Amazon still wants a package of college football games that can complement its Thursday night package of NFL games.
  • Pac-12 officials’ initial reaction when they heard of the Big 12’s deal was relief. Big 12 schools each will receive around $31 million per school as part of the deal, and Pac-12 officials are optimistic that they will be able to eclipse that figure. This means that unless the Big Ten or SEC come calling, it’s unlikely a Pac-12 school will be persuaded to leave the conference.
  • One reason for that optimism is the fact that the Pac-12 has its rights in the open market. The Big 12 could not have hit the open market until 2024. While Amazon and ESPN are the clear front-runners, the Pac-12 has had talks with Apple, Fox and Warner Bros. Discovery. The theory is that the presence of multiple serious bidders will help drive the price up.
  • The big question will come down to price. Media companies believe the Big 12 deal set the market. The Pac-12 still is aiming higher. Keep in mind, the Pac-12 will have fewer schools -- 10 instead of 12 -- after USC and UCLA depart for the Big Ten. That’s two fewer mouths to feed. ESPN took pains to make sure that its Big 12 deal would not result in a bigger per-school payout than the ACC. Because of the ACC Network, it’s difficult to determine how much ACC schools make from its ESPN deal. But I was told that the Big 12 will not eclipse the ACC on that front at any point in its deal, which runs through 2030-31. ESPN is likely to approach Pac-12 negotiations in a similar way.

That article’s assertion are not accurate. ACC does not make more than the new Big 12 Contract. This link says the current ACC deal pays about $17 million per school for the base media package. Versus the old Big 12 figure of $22 million. New Big 12 is almost $32 million. The article writer seems to include the CFP numbers with ACC but not include for Big 12. So he thinks ACC gets more and they do not.

 

Gonzo

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That article’s assertion are not accurate. ACC does not make more than the new Big 12 Contract. This link says the current ACC deal pays about $17 million per school for the base media package. Versus the old Big 12 figure of $22 million. New Big 12 is almost $32 million. The article writer seems to include the CFP numbers with ACC but not include for Big 12. So he thinks ACC gets more and they do not.

I think the guy is focusing solely on ESPN's portion. ESPN isn't paying the entire $380 mill/year or $32 mill/per school, some of that is coming from FOX. The ACC gets $240 mill/year currently just from ESPN. So whatever the breakdown of the new Big 12 deal is, ESPN's portion of that might be a little less than $240 mill/year with FOX covering the rest. At least that's how I read it.
 

Pope

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The new media deal for conferences, particularly SEC and B1G, basically eliminates the need for program and facilities fundraising. Who will be the first school to tie season ticket points to their donations to the school's NIL collective? Because that's the logical way this goes.
Interesting thought. It's going to be a strange time for sure for collegiate athletics.

At the same time the P2 athletic departments are being flooded with cash from media payouts, their institutions are seeing a dramatic drop in state appropriations. I think it's only a matter of time before the academic side of these institutions demand that a portion of these media dollars be shifted to support the institution in general. After all, the institution is the only reason the athletic department exists.
 

VeloClone

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You could sell ad space on the uniforms / helmets.

Imagine a "Dr. Pepper" bottle on every players jersey, or "Phillips 66" across the front of every jersey, a la the Premier League. Horrible, yes. But if it got you $10M more per school...
Not as bad as the "Dude Wipes" on the shoulder of the NY City MLS kit.

AVvXsEjiDLtOv2mYaRswIfHGsjtE7xjklnDgkTVyoZI7AQvTqg3huiTyIwobS6cmnlN3Su4USzjiSKzrx7vmD7keueraEBKvvw0sadF26W5Gd4SJypKj1RV2vkV8ZOaYWbn9XmJhLV-_2PnEvTGRewB3Tuoj386QPVtudMIF5nyzofQZKNPz57SdQpqajaGJ=s1000
 
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AuH2O

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I think the guy is focusing solely on ESPN's portion. ESPN isn't paying the entire $380 mill/year or $32 mill/per school, some of that is coming from FOX. The ACC gets $240 mill/year currently just from ESPN. So whatever the breakdown of the new Big 12 deal is, ESPN's portion of that might be a little less than $240 mill/year with FOX covering the rest. At least that's how I read it.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if their payout to ACC is $17M per team, the new Big 12 deal is $32M per team, wouldn't that mean ESPNs share of the contract need to be around half or less to maintain that threshold?

Besides, it's kind of a useless comparison when you're talking rights shared with Fox (Big 12) vs. running the show in the ACC.
 

MountainManHawk

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I think the guy is focusing solely on ESPN's portion. ESPN isn't paying the entire $380 mill/year or $32 mill/per school, some of that is coming from FOX. The ACC gets $240 mill/year currently just from ESPN. So whatever the breakdown of the new Big 12 deal is, ESPN's portion of that might be a little less than $240 mill/year with FOX covering the rest. At least that's how I read it.
That’s kind of what I was thinking. The Big12 payouts can be above the ACC based on the portion that comes from Fox. I believe ACC is 100% with ESPN and those payouts are supposedly inline with the Big12 throughout the duration of the deals that have been signed so far.
 

cyIclSoneU

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I think the straw that will break the ACC GOR’s back will be when UCF gets more money distributed from its conference in 2026 than Miami or FSU get from theirs. Then there will be very intense, no holds barred legal wrangling, much more than I am sure Texas and Oklahoma tried behind the scenes before deciding it wasn’t worth it to leave the Big 12 a couple years early. The ACC schools are talking about an entire decade of the GOR at that point.

There will be some “anonymous source at a major ACC program” who will take a drive by shot at ISU in a quote about how they deserve more money and their contract sucks. “If even Iowa State is making more than us, we need to get out.” Something like that.
 

Gonzo

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Maybe I'm missing something, but if their payout to ACC is $17M per team, the new Big 12 deal is $32M per team, wouldn't that mean ESPNs share of the contract need to be around half or less to maintain that threshold?

Besides, it's kind of a useless comparison when you're talking rights shared with Fox (Big 12) vs. running the show in the ACC.
ESPN owns the ACC Network so maybe technically the $$ paid to schools from the ACCN on top of the $17 mill from ESPN also count as coming from ESPN as part of its overall deal? Who knows.
 
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KnappShack

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ESPN owns the ACC Network so maybe technically the $$ paid to schools from the ACCN on top of the $17 mill from ESPN also count as coming from ESPN as part of its overall deal? Who knows.

And I've never seen anything positive about the ACC network. I've always read that it's generally seen as a flop and a cautionary story about a potential Big 12 Network.

Of course this could be ESPN bull. It seems really ******* hard to compare apples to apples on these deals.
 

aeroclone

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I think the straw that will break the ACC GOR’s back will be when UCF gets more money distributed from its conference in 2026 than Miami or FSU get from theirs. Then there will be very intense, no holds barred legal wrangling, much more than I am sure Texas and Oklahoma tried behind the scenes before deciding it wasn’t worth it to leave the Big 12 a couple years early. The ACC schools are talking about an entire decade of the GOR at that point.

There will be some “anonymous source at a major ACC program” who will take a drive by shot at ISU in a quote about how they deserve more money and their contract sucks. “If even Iowa State is making more than us, we need to get out.” Something like that.
I'm taking the opposite approach on the ACC GOR based on what we have seen so far. UT and OU have all the money in the world to fight it. They only need to cut out 2 years early. And we now have a new media deal in place that has secured the future of the remaining 8, giving them continued revenue growth even after OUT exits. If there isn't a path to break the GOR in that scenario I struggle to see how lower budget schools are going to break a longer GOR while several schools in that conference may get kicked to the trash heep.
 

AuH2O

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Interesting thought. It's going to be a strange time for sure for collegiate athletics.

At the same time the P2 athletic departments are being flooded with cash from media payouts, their institutions are seeing a dramatic drop in state appropriations. I think it's only a matter of time before the academic side of these institutions demand that a portion of these media dollars be shifted to support the institution in general. After all, the institution is the only reason the athletic department exists.
I'm sure they will, but frankly it will make very little impact to these universities. To put it in perspective, University of Iowa (not including UI hospital) had operating revenues of $3.7 B. Let's say Iowa Athletics kicks over 10% of that eventual $100M athletics revenue. That represents less than one days worth of revenue for the university as a whole.

I know I kick this dead horse a lot, but while college sports are big business, they still represent a small part of the Universities' revenues as a whole.
 
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AuH2O

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I'm taking the opposite approach on the ACC GOR based on what we have seen so far. UT and OU have all the money in the world to fight it. They only need to cut out 2 years early. And we now have a new media deal in place that has secured the future of the remaining 8, giving them continued revenue growth even after OUT exits. If there isn't a path to break the GOR in that scenario I struggle to see how lower budget schools are going to break a longer GOR while several schools in that conference may get kicked to the trash heep.
This exactly. There is no one in the ACC worth remotely close what Texas was to the SEC. If they can't find the cash, no one in the ACC has a prayer.

The league will have to have enough teams with better landing spots in mind to dissolve the conference. That's probably not happening. I think they are stuck for at least close to the entire GoR.
 

cyIclSoneU

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I'm taking the opposite approach on the ACC GOR based on what we have seen so far. UT and OU have all the money in the world to fight it. They only need to cut out 2 years early. And we now have a new media deal in place that has secured the future of the remaining 8, giving them continued revenue growth even after OUT exits. If there isn't a path to break the GOR in that scenario I struggle to see how lower budget schools are going to break a longer GOR while several schools in that conference may get kicked to the trash heep.

I think it’s a risk tolerance. Texas decided the risk of the litigation wasn’t worth two years in the SEC. I expect some ACC school will decide the risk is worth getting out 10 years early, though.

I suppose one complication is that the B1G and SEC may not take them because of that litigation risk that they would then be exposed to. That could be the reason why nothing happens.

But with ESPN owning 100% of SEC, 100% of ACC, and 0% of B1G rights, they might pull some shenanigans trying to get the most valuable ACC programs into the SEC before the B1G even has a chance to invite them, while still paying the left behind ACC schools the same amount of money through 2036, in an attempt to fend off a lawsuit.
 

aeroclone

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I think it’s a risk tolerance. Texas decided the risk of the litigation wasn’t worth two years in the SEC. I expect some ACC school will decide the risk is worth getting out 10 years early, though.

I suppose one complication is that the B1G and SEC may not take them because of that litigation risk that they would then be exposed to. That could be the reason why nothing happens.

But with ESPN owning 100% of SEC, 100% of ACC, and 0% of B1G rights, they might pull some shenanigans trying to get the most valuable ACC programs into the SEC before the B1G even has a chance to invite them, while still paying the left behind ACC schools the same amount of money through 2036, in an attempt to fend off a lawsuit.
I think in these cases ESPN and the SEC wouldn't have much motivation to help. ESPN is getting these ACC schools for peanuts today. Why hurry to move them to the SEC just so you can pay them more? ESPN already has a mountain of top tier content in the SEC as is. Then from the SEC's perspective, I don't think there is enough incremental value in ant ACC schools to make it worth while. Maybe a Clemson or FSU can carry their weight and keep the SEC payouts as is, but I don't see them raising the payouts across the league. I also don't see Notre Dame ever in the SEC if you want to consider them part of the ACC equation.
 

CascadeClone

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This exactly. There is no one in the ACC worth remotely close what Texas was to the SEC. If they can't find the cash, no one in the ACC has a prayer.

The league will have to have enough teams with better landing spots in mind to dissolve the conference. That's probably not happening. I think they are stuck for at least close to the entire GoR.
True, but the infighting might drive something to happen. There will be calls for unequal revenue sharing, renegotiation of TV contract, adding teams, anything they can throw against the wall. There could be a lot of acrimony, and that might be enough to make something happen. Even get 8 teams to work together to dissolve the conference (assuming 8 of them could find landing spots elsewhere, which is possible).

Zeroth law of economics: If something is unsustainable, eventually it will stop.

Clemson making half what Iowa State does is "unsustainable".