Big 12 Conference Realignment

[HFCS]

UCONN can still make and win the tournament from the Big12. Being in the Big12 gives them even more money for basketball, as well as football and other sports again. If they wanted to drop football they would have done it when the BigEast stopped playing football instead of going independent. They just don’t make enough to put they money into it they need.

I would be curious to look up what their geography was like those years in American. Maybe it's not a big deal. Unlike our four new schools, Arizonza/CU/ASU/Utah and Gonzaga, UConn definitely wouldn't be hitting some new harder level of competition compared to Big East last year.

Also just curious in general which teams have had the most championship success in either major sport while playing a really spread out geographically road game schedule. Washington has always been really remote so I'm thinking Washington football is probably the best example for football having a few elite years. Creighton has been somewhat isolated as a hoops program and seems fine.

 

[cytor]

Not interested in UCONN. The big 12 has enough BB firepower. Football is the cash cow and UCONN does nothing for football to make the Big 12 better.

 

[exCyDing]

Not interested in UCONN. The big 12 has enough BB firepower. Football is the cash cow and UCONN does nothing for football to make the Big 12 better.

This is where I am. UConn might be worth discussing around the next media deal(s) are being negotiated, assuming the B12 is able to split up FB and BB. Ditto for Gonzaga. I don't see either going anywhere between now and then.

 

[RustShack]

Not interested in UCONN. The big 12 has enough BB firepower. Football is the cash cow and UCONN does nothing for football to make the Big 12 better.

They aren’t adding UCONN just to add UCONN. They are a backup option to if an odd number of PAC schools are added. If Colorado and Arizona or all of the corner four come they aren’t an option. But if it’s an odd number and Fox and ESPN sign off on paying for them, then why the hell not?

 

[Cyforce]

They aren’t adding UCONN just to add UCONN. They are a backup option to if an odd number of PAC schools are added. If Colorado and Arizona or all of the corner four come they aren’t an option. But if it’s an odd number and Fox and ESPN sign off on paying for them, then why the hell not?

Should never add a team just to have an even number. Ever team should be considered strictly on their individual merits.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Should never add a team just to have an even number. Ever team should be considered strictly on their individual merits.

Depends. If CU comes and no one else, I have no problem stealing SDSU out from under the PAC. There is no obligation to offer them a full share and they will still jump at it.

Same scenario prob works if CU comes and UCONN is offered a full share. UCONN has value to break into NE area.

 

[isucy86]

Should never add a team just to have an even number. Ever team should be considered strictly on their individual merits.

What merits should be considered?

As Rustshack mentioned, if ESPN and FOX are willing to pay UConn a full share- why not take a school with ELITE men's and women's basketball programs?

Even if the networks are only willing to pay a partial share amount and UConn is willing to take less, why not? Hopefully with P5 money UConn can develop a Big12 worthy football program.

 

[RustShack]

Should never add a team just to have an even number. Ever team should be considered strictly on their individual merits.

Yeah it doesn’t work that way. They media considers the package deal instead of each individual.

If the B1G added ND they wouldn’t care if the other school brought a quarter of the value.

 

[Clonehomer]

They aren’t adding UCONN just to add UCONN. They are a backup option to if an odd number of PAC schools are added. If Colorado and Arizona or all of the corner four come they aren’t an option. But if it’s an odd number and Fox and ESPN sign off on paying for them, then why the hell not?

Colorado is not a big enough name to have UCONN as their +1. If Colorado is the only PAC school that wants to leave, we should politely tell them to find a new dance partner before leaving the PAC. Primarily because swapping CU for SDSU really doesn't weaken the PAC much. If the Big12 is adding teams, it needs to kill the PAC at the same time. Otherwise, just stand pat at 12 and play the long game.

 

[CYCLNST8]

Colorado is not a big enough name to have UCONN as their +1. If Colorado is the only PAC school that wants to leave, we should politely tell them to find a new dance partner before leaving the PAC. Primarily because swapping CU for SDSU really doesn't weaken the PAC much. If the Big12 is adding teams, it needs to kill the PAC at the same time. Otherwise, just stand pat at 12 and play the long game.

I'm not sure "dance partners" matter anymore now that divisions are irrelevant. Maybe we hang out @ 13 members for a while. The Big Televen worked for quite a while.

 

[Clonehomer]

I'm not sure "dance partners" matter anymore now that divisions are irrelevant. Maybe we hang out @ 13 members for a while. The Big Televen worked for quite a while.

9 games vs 8 games. We aren't going to have uneven # of games to make 13 teams and 9 conference games work. And we're not going back to 8 conference games.

So the only way to do that is to go to 10 conference games. I don't see teams signing up for that when the SEC is sitting at 8.

 

[AuH2O]

This is where I am. UConn might be worth discussing around the next media deal(s) are being negotiated, assuming the B12 is able to split up FB and BB. Ditto for Gonzaga. I don't see either going anywhere between now and then.

Since they are combined it’s an estimate, but TV media people report the FB/BB media share to be 75/25 to 80/20.
Based on the conference per team dollars a league with so much worthless crap as the Big 10 gets, I think it’s pretty easy to say a CFB blue blood is worth north of $120m in media per year. So it is reasonable to think a CBB blue blood is worth $30-40m. Now, I don’t know if UConn is quite at that level despite arguably being the most successful program in the past 25 years. But people need to realize that basketball has more media value than they think, and for the Big 12, a basketball blue blood may be a net financial gain out of the gate.

 

[JRJ]

P12 will end up staying put is my guess, maybe add a couple G5 schools. OR/WA have no interest in the B12 and the other P12 members don't really want to go there either. If they did it would have happened already.

 

[Gunnerclone]

P12 will end up staying put is my guess, maybe add a couple G5 schools. OR/WA have no interest in the B12 and the other P12 members don't really want to go there either. If they did it would have happened already.

So can we say the same thing about the media companies in relation to the PAC 12? If they wanted to sign a deal with them they would have done it already?

Are you a new fan/follower of the Big 12/ISU? Most of us have been through this song and dance a few times and what you’re describing is not how it works.

Everyone is together and unbreakable and don’t want to move…but then it happens.

 

[jcyclonee]

Colorado is not a big enough name to have UCONN as their +1. If Colorado is the only PAC school that wants to leave, we should politely tell them to find a new dance partner before leaving the PAC. Primarily because swapping CU for SDSU really doesn't weaken the PAC much. If the Big12 is adding teams, it needs to kill the PAC at the same time. Otherwise, just stand pat at 12 and play the long game.

Your point is good. However, I do want to point out that Colorado does have really big short-term upside. If they are even marginally successful and interesting with Prime as their coach, Colorado's value as a football program increases drastically. If he fails, the value is probably about status quo.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Since they are combined it’s an estimate, but TV media people report the FB/BB media share to be 75/25 to 80/20.

​

Based on the conference per team dollars a league with so much worthless crap as the Big 10 gets, I think it’s pretty easy to say a CFB blue blood is worth north of $120m in media per year. So it is reasonable to think a CBB blue blood is worth $30-40m. Now, I don’t know if UConn is quite at that level despite arguably being the most successful program in the past 25 years. But people need to realize that basketball has more media value than they think, and for the Big 12, a basketball blue blood may be a net financial gain out of the gate.

While I don’t agree with the numbers you put out there I think the bigger problem for UConn is that they just don’t draw the ratings other “blue bloods” do regardless of their success. Also even those blue bloods don’t draw great ratings compared to a very average football team. Kansas Kentucky this year was the 10th highest regular season game (it was Kansas’s highest rated) and they couldn’t even crack 2mil viewers. The idea that a blue blood basketball program is somehow worth 30-40mil when they have a non existent football program just isn’t based in reality.

 

[AuH2O]

While I don’t agree with the numbers you put out there I think the bigger problem for UConn is that they just don’t draw the ratings other “blue bloods” do regardless of their success. Also even those blue bloods don’t draw great ratings compared to a very average football team. Kansas Kentucky this year was the 10th highest regular season game (it was Kansas’s highest rated) and they couldn’t even crack 2mil viewers. The idea that a blue blood basketball program is somehow worth 30-40mil when they have a non existent football program just isn’t based in reality.

I just gave the reality, which is the relative value of football vs. basketball. If TV execs say MBB is 20-25%, that means in the aggregate the value is 1/4 to 1/3.

But at the same time, PSU-Michigan State football also didn't break 2M, and you're talking about the two brands in the highest value media league in the top 5 after OSU and Michigan along with Wisconsin. Let's also keep in mind that CFB derives a WAY higher proportion of their value from a single regular season game than CBB, and it's not even close.

I agree that I don't believe UConn is a blue blood in terms of media value, at least not yet. I think the fact that the ratings for this past title game were down support that. But I think the value of basketball blue bloods is equal to or greater than the current Big 12 payout per team.

But as a comparison, the viewership for the SDSU-UConn game were 15M. The previous years KU-UNC game was 17m.

The three College football playoff games were about 22, 22 and 17M, and these were games that included Georgia x2, Michigan and Ohio State.

 

[qwerty]

I just gave the reality, which is the relative value of football vs. basketball. If TV execs say MBB is 20-25%, that means in the aggregate the value is 1/4 to 1/3.

But at the same time, PSU-Michigan State football also didn't break 2M, and you're talking about the two brands in the highest value media league in the top 5 after OSU and Michigan along with Wisconsin. Let's also keep in mind that CFB derives a WAY higher proportion of their value from a single regular season game than CBB, and it's not even close.

I agree that I don't believe UConn is a blue blood in terms of media value, at least not yet. I think the fact that the ratings for this past title game were down support that. But I think the value of basketball blue bloods is equal to or greater than the current Big 12 payout per team.

But as a comparison, the viewership for the SDSU-UConn game were 15M. The previous years KU-UNC game was 17m.

The three College football playoff games were about 22, 22 and 17M, and these were games that included Georgia x2, Michigan and Ohio State.

You didn't even touch on that for the regular season and post-season, CBB has about 3x the amount of product so each INDIVIDUAL game only needs to be .333 of a CFB game to be of approx. equal value.

I would guess for advertisers, they may see CBB as the better value play as they can air an ad 3x (you would think at 1/3 the price per) to get the same number of views (more times seen, more likely to remember), but I am not in the biz so am just spit-balling off the top of my head.

 

[HFCS]

Not interested in UCONN. The big 12 has enough BB firepower. Football is the cash cow and UCONN does nothing for football to make the Big 12 better.

We had the #1 computer rated basketball conference for something like 12-13 years straight once deadweight Nebraska left and the media begrudgingly acknowledged it for the first time at all a couple years ago.

I'm pretty skeptical that we'll ever get full recognition for it on a regular basis.

 

[isucy86]

Colorado is not a big enough name to have UCONN as their +1. If Colorado is the only PAC school that wants to leave, we should politely tell them to find a new dance partner before leaving the PAC. Primarily because swapping CU for SDSU really doesn't weaken the PAC much. If the Big12 is adding teams, it needs to kill the PAC at the same time. Otherwise, just stand pat at 12 and play the long game.

I agree they don't have elite TV value compared to other Pac10 or ACC schools the Big12 is linked with.

But value of CU/UConn combination only matters if the Big12 were going to stop at 14 or 16 teams. If the long-term vision is a 20-24 team Big12+, then CU and UConn are part of that puzzle.

What matters in 2024 is what ESPN/FOX are willing to pay to increase the Big12 deal. We know they will pay $31.7M for CU. So the missing piece is what will ESPN/FOX pay for UConn to be part of Big12. Is it $10M, $15M, $20M or $31.7M?

IMO adding UConn in 2024 makes sense if it doesn't dilute the $31.7M Big12 schools are getting today. It gives UConn 6 years to build a respectable P5 level football program with increased financial resources.

UConn is the primary state school, in a state a little bigger than Iowa. Similar to Rutgers giving Big10 visibility in NY market area, UConn gives similar (if not more) visibility.