Stats from Basketball trip

[Cupped]

Not sure if anyone knows the answer, but did they run our basic offense the same as last year as far as post usage? Meaning more of a passer and screener. I keep thinking Robert should have more than 2 free throw attempts in 3 games, but maybe there was very little 'post entry'?

I don't have the answer but I thought the same. Perhaps BRE learned what "kick it out" means?

 

[Jer]

I don't have the answer but I thought the same. Perhaps BRE learned what "kick it out" means?

If he's learned nothing more than that he doesn't have to shoot the basketball just because it's in his hands, that would be great.

 

[Sigmapolis]

If he's learned nothing more than that he doesn't have to shoot the basketball just because it's in his hands, that would be great.

~Robert "Big Rob Energy" Jones

 

[Cyinthenorth]

There's a bit of an exaggeration by fans in how much a player can "develop a shot" in an offseason. It's not like the past 18 years of his life he had never tried a 3-pointer. There are limits for each player. He may or may not have hit that for himself. I hope he continues to improve, but it's not some forgone conclusion that people like to assume.

Right. Shooting is a gift. Tamin most likely just doesn't possess that gift and will have to work extremely hard on it to even get it to a respectable level.

 

[jbhtexas]

If Jones, Gilbert, Paveletzke and Mom can combine for 40-plus percent from 3, we won't have to worry too much about Linsey's outside shooting.

Lipsey needs to be able to do something to keep his defender within reasonable proximity of himself, or the opponent is going to use his defender to actively double team the other ISU players or clog up the middle, and it's going to disrpt the the rest of the offense just like it did last year. As noted above, opponents were sagging way off him in conference play.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Lipsey needs to be able to do something to keep his defender within reasonable proximity of himself, or the opponent is going to use his defender to actively double team the other ISU players or clog up the middle, and it's going to disrpt the the rest of the offense just like it did last year. As noted above, opponents were sagging way off him in conference play.

The effectiveness of that strategy is inverse to the amount of shooting for the offense. Lipsey being a bad to "meh" shooter is one thing. Not really have any shooters to worry about, especially on a cold Kalscheur or Holmes night (of many) and after the Grill and Kunc injuries, is another thing entirely.

Even if they can cheat on Lipsey, they are opening themselves up to shelling by long-range artillery by Curtis Jones, Paveletzke, and Momcilovic. I think you are right that teams might try some of that, but it isn't going to be as foolproof of a strategy as it was against a team bereft of dependable shooters.

 

[Sigmapolis]

With all credit to @Cyclones8824...

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

Reworked the data as a table --

PLAYING TIME AND EFFICIENCY STATS



SHOOTING STATS



COUNTING STATS

 

[jbhtexas]

The effectiveness of that strategy is inverse to the amount of shooting for the offense. Lipsey being a bad to "meh" shooter is one thing. Not really have any shooters to worry about, especially on a cold Kalscheur or Holmes night (of many) and after the Grill and Kunc injuries, is another thing entirely.

Even if they can cheat on Lipsey, they are opening themselves up to shelling by long-range artillery by Curtis Jones, Paveletzke, and Momcilovic. I think you are right that teams might try some of that, but it isn't going to be as foolproof of a strategy as it was against a team bereft of dependable shooters.

I don't see how a defender cheating off of Lipsey would open the team up to "shelling" by better shooters. Why would you guard a player on the perimeter if you don't have to? Wouldn't you would rotate that player to cover one of the other "bombers"?

If a perimeter player doesn't have to be guarded unless he is within 15 ft of the basket, that is seems to be a deficiency, and one that can be readily exploited by the strong athleticism and coaching in the Big 12.

 

[ZRF]

There's a bit of an exaggeration by fans in how much a player can "develop a shot" in an offseason. It's not like the past 18 years of his life he had never tried a 3-pointer. There are limits for each player. He may or may not have hit that for himself. I hope he continues to improve, but it's not some forgone conclusion that people like to assume.

I think has a shot (decent enough) but he needs to can the hesitancy and the lack of confidence that appeared so obvious several times last season. IMO that's more important than the "shot itself".

 

[ZRF]

Optimally I'd like to see Jones closer to the 10-12 mins a game range than the 16 or so we see here. There will be times more may be needed but I think we are much better (especially toward the end of the year) if Ward, Omaha, and King are getting the large bulk of our big man minutes.

Gilberts stats, especially the +- are off the charts. While that can be flawed (especially if receiving a lot of time with better players). It's hard to have 2 players heads and shoulders above the rest (him and Tamin) if they weren't playing well (two way game).

 

[RagingCloner]

Here are cumulative stats from the 3 games played in the Bahamas, all numbers in parentheses represent per game averages. Also leaderboards at the bottom. Let me know who or what you are most impressed by

Tamin Lipsey- Mins- 80:33

PTS- 33 (11)

FG/FGA- 10/21

FG%- 48%

2P/2PA- 10/17

2P%- 59%

3P/3PA- 0/4

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 13-17

FT%- 76%

ORB- 5 (1.6)

DRB- 8 (2.6)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 16 (5.3)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 6 (2)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 91



Tre King- Mins- 55:45

PTS- 34 (11.3)

FG/FGA- 14/23

FG%- 61%

2P/2PA- 12/20

2P%- (60%)

3P/3PA- 2/5

3P%- 40%

FT/FTA- 4/7

FT%- 57%

ORB- 2 (0.6)

DRB- 7 (2.3)

TRB- 9 (3)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 3 (1)

BLK- 1 (.3)

PF- 11 (3.6)

+_- 91



Keshon Gilbert Mins- 71:14

PTS- 44 (14.6)

FG/FGA- 18/24

FG%- 75%

2P/2PA- 16/20

2P%- 75%

3P/3PA- 2/5

3P%- 40%

FT/FTA- 6/7

FT%- 85%

ORB- 1 (0.3)

DRB- 12 (4)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 13 (4.3)

TO- 9 (3)

STL- 10 (3.3)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 113



Demarion Watson Mins- 37:26

PTS- 14 (4.6)

FG/FGA- 6/12

FG%- 50%

2P/2PA- 6/9

2P%- 66%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 5 (1.6)

DRB- 5 (1.6)

TRB- 10 (3.3)

AST- 0

TO- 1 (0.3)

STL- 5 (1.6)

BLK- 0

PF- 7 (2.3)

+_- 57



Robert Jones Mins- 48:47

PTS- 12 (4)

FG/FGA- 5/11

FG%- 45%

2P/2PA- 5/10

2P%-50%

3P/3PA- 0-1

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 6 (2)

DRB- 2 (0.6)

TRB- 8 (2.6)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 4 (1.3)

STL- 2 (0.6)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 52



Jackson Paveletzke-Mins- 52:01

PTS- 24 (8)

FG/FGA- 9/16

FG%- 56%

2P/2PA- 4/9

2P%- 44%

3P/3PA- 5/7

3P%- 71%

FT/FTA- 1/2

FT%- 50%

ORB- 0

DRB- 3 (1)

TRB- 3 (1)

AST- 13 (4.3)

TO- 6 (2)

STL- 4 (1.3)

BLK- 0

PF- 4 (1.3)

+_- 11



Curtis Jones Mins- 68:16

PTS- 53 (17.6)

FG/FGA- 20/39

FG%- 51%

2P/2PA- 8/11

2P%- 72%

3P/3PA- 12/28

3P%- 42%

FT/FTA- 1-1

FT%- 100%

ORB- 2 (0.6)

DuRB- 8 (2.6)

TRB- 10 (3.3)

AST- 3 (1)

TO- 3 (1)

STL- 6 (2)

BLK- 0

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 4



Omaha Biliew- Mins- 39:32

PTS- 11 (3.6)

FG/FGA- 5/9

FG%- 55%

2P/2PA- 5/6

2P%-83%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 1-2

FT%- 50%

ORB- 7 (2.3)

DRB- 6 (2)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 2 (0.6)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 3 (1)

BLK- 0

PF- 10 (3.3)

+_- 9



Hasan Ward- Mins- 53:12

PTS- 18 (6)

FG/FGA- 6/8

FG%- 75%

2P/2PA- 6/8

2P%- 75%

3P/3PA- 0-0

3P%- N/A

FT/FTA- 6-9

FT%- 66%

ORB- 1 (0.3)

DRB- 11 (3.6)

TRB- 12 (4)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 7 (2.3)

STL- 0

BLK- 4 (1.3)

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 59



Milan Momcilovic- Mins- 50:02

PTS- 18 (6)

FG/FGA- 6/21

FG%- 28%

2P/2PA- 2/9

2P%- 22%

3P/3PA- 4/12

3P%- 33%

FT/FTA- 2/2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 6 (2)

DRB- 7 (2.3)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 3 (1)

STL- 1 (0.3)

BLK- 2 (0.6)

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 7



Jelani Hamilton- Mins- 19:13

PTS- 2 (1)

FG/FGA- 0-5

FG%- 0%

2P/2PA- 0-4

2P%- 0%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 1 (0.5)

DRB- 1 (0.5)

TRB- 2 (1)

AST- 2 (1)

TO- 1 (0.5)

STL- 4 (2)

BLK- 1 (0.5)

PF- 4 (2)

+_- 4 (2)

2 Games



Kayden Fish- Mins- 15:55

PTS- 6 (3)

FG/FGA- 3-5

FG%- 60%

2P/2PA- 3-5

2P%- 60%

3P/3PA- 0-0

3P%- N/A

FT/FTA- 0-2

FT%- 0%

ORB- 1 (0.5)

DRB- 3 (1.5)

TRB- 4 (2)

AST- 0

TO- 2 (1)

STL- 1 (0.5)

BLK- 0

PF- 3 (1.5)

+_- 6

2 Games



Conrad Hawley-Mins- 6:27

PTS- 2 (1)

FG/FGA- 1-3

FG%- 33%

2P/2PA- 1-2

2P%- 50%

3P/3PA- 0-1

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 0-0

FT%- N/A

ORB- 3 (1.5)

DRB- 1 (0.5)

TRB- 4 (2)

AST- 0

TO- 2 (1)

STL- 0

BLK- 0

PF- 2 (1)

+_- 3

2 Games



Cade Kelderman- Mins- 6:58

PTS- 5 (2.5)

FG/FGA- 2/3

FG%- 66%

2P/2PA- 1/2

2P%- 50%

3P/3PA- 1-1

3P%- 100%

FT/FTA- 0-0

FT%- N/A

ORB- 0

DRB- 0

TRB- 0

AST- 0

TO- 0

STL- 2 (1)

BLK- 0

PF- 1

+_- 3

2 Games



Leaderboard

Points- 1.Curtis Jones 2.Keshon Gilbert 3. Tre King 4.Tamin Lipsey 5.Jackson Paveletzke

Rebounds- T1.Tamin Lipsey T1.Keshon Gilbert T1.Omaha Biliew T1.Milan Momcilovic 5.Hasan Ward

Assists- 1.Tamin Lipsey T2.Keshon Gilbert T2.Jackson Paveletzke 4.Curtis Jones T5.Omaha Biliew T5.Jelani Hamilton

Steals- 1.Keshon Gilbert T2.Tamin Lipsey T2.Curtis Jones 4.Demarion Watson T5.Jackson Paveletzke T5.Jelani Hamilton

Blocks- 1.Hasan Ward 2.Milan Momcilovic T3.Tre King T3.Jelani Hamilton

By the time I finish reading this, it will be time for kickoff against UNI. Seriously though, thank you for the effort you put into this!

 

[jbhtexas]

I think has a shot (decent enough) but he needs to can the hesitancy and the lack of confidence that appeared so obvious several times last season. IMO that's more important than the "shot itself".

I agree with this. For a guard, given the grinding defense in the Big 12, a wide-open shot in the 14-17 ft range should be a near automatic take, unless of course there is a big mismatch inside, or a guy standing wide open next to the hoop, or maybe a good, wide open 3pt shooter behind the 3pt line who will still have an open shot when he gets the ball.

Lipsey turned down so many of those shots last year (and even closer), only to pass to a guy that was quickly covered.

 

[JimDogRock]

Optimally I'd like to see Jones closer to the 10-12 mins a game range than the 16 or so we see here. There will be times more may be needed but I think we are much better (especially toward the end of the year) if Ward, Omaha, and King are getting the large bulk of our big man minutes.

Gilberts stats, especially the +- are off the charts. While that can be flawed (especially if receiving a lot of time with better players). It's hard to have 2 players heads and shoulders above the rest (him and Tamin) if they weren't playing well (two way game).

Robert Jones will have minutes below the teens in a game when a combination of 2 things happen.
1. King and Ward stay out of foul trouble.
2. Momcilovic and Biliew get acclimated to the college game.

I expect this to happen, but not consistently.

 

[Clone95]

I feel like the "sagging off" of Lipsey is more of a thing with the "coaches" on CF than it was actually an issue. I mean, maybe CF posters are smarter than Bill Self and Scott Drew, but they never did that. There was 5 mins of the K State game that it was clear they were doing that, but, beyond that, it wasn't a strategy many coaches used, even after it was evident Lipsey wasn't a threat. It wasn't an issue at all before the Grill injury and then only if Gabe and Holmes weren't hitting.

I mean, Lipsey being a threat will be a big benefit, no doubt, but if he's not, it's not the killer some on here believe, as long as there are other threats on the floor.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I don't see how a defender cheating off of Lipsey would open the team up to "shelling" by better shooters. Why would you guard a player on the perimeter if you don't have to? Wouldn't you would rotate that player to cover one of the other "bombers"?

If a perimeter player doesn't have to be guarded unless he is within 15 ft of the basket, that is seems to be a deficiency, and one that can be readily exploited by the strong athleticism and coaching in the Big 12.

I don't think the season ended last year with opposing teams only sagging off Lipsey.

They were sagging off everybody and clogging the lane with five and daring the Cyclones to beat them by shooting over it. That was certainly what Pitt did, and they easily won against a team that clanged almost every outside shot taken (2/21) and smothered any attempt to get into the paint.

My point was more they can't sag off everybody like Pitt did. Sagging off Lipsey does present some of the spacing issues you described, but not nearly as badly as having zero shooters did.

But yes, even having an extra guy in the paint/not closing covering a non-shooting PG has implications for the outside shooters with help defense. A guy on the perimeter guarding Lipsey is in position to rotate/help if and when the ball reverses to a shooter in the corner. Not so much if he is standing on the free-throw line. So yes, not guarding Lipsey honestly is going to open up perimeter opportunities for the snipers.

 

[SolarGarlic]

My couch coach eyes tell me a quicker release would help. Just watching him warm up last year, it looked like he set up from the knees instead of belly or chest for the shot which is easier to guard. The actual shot itself looked OK and there was good touch there.

I'd like to think that if there are other players that can hit from deep or are better at getting to the rim, teams can't sag off of Lipsey the same way. It looked easy to sag off like that when everyone else was easy to cover up.

He shoots it too flat. He has a hitch at the top and often releases it on the way down. He can nail line drives over the front of the rim at the free throw line, but you can't do that from deep unless you're Kobe Bryant.

 

[Statefan10]

It's not as simple as just "sagging off" Lipsey. It all depends on other matchups as well as the situation. You can't sag off someone of Lipsey's skill level because he's going to use that 3-5 feet of space against you. He'll have far more angles to work with to beat you off the dribble.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I feel like the "sagging off" of Lipsey is more of a thing with the "coaches" on CF than it was actually an issue. I mean, maybe CF posters are smarter than Bill Self and Scott Drew, but they never did that. There was 5 mins of the K State game that it was clear they were doing that, but, beyond that, it wasn't a strategy many coaches used, even after it was evident Lipsey wasn't a threat. It wasn't an issue at all before the Grill injury and then only if Gabe and Holmes weren't hitting.

I mean, Lipsey being a threat will be a big benefit, no doubt, but if he's not, it's not the killer some on here believe, as long as there are other threats on the floor.

Yeah, sagging off makes sense if you are cheating inside to help with a big man. You can't exactly sag off sideways to another guard or you are leaving a lane to the basket.

 

[SolarGarlic]

The ability of Gilbert, Jones, and Pav to hit a 3 and get into the lane will make things a lot easier for Lipsey. That's a lot of closeouts and forced rotations that did not exist last season. Neither Holmes or Kalscheur were going to blow by you off the dribble.

 

[Jer]

Optimally I'd like to see Jones closer to the 10-12 mins a game range than the 16 or so we see here. There will be times more may be needed but I think we are much better (especially toward the end of the year) if Ward, Omaha, and King are getting the large bulk of our big man minutes.

Gilberts stats, especially the +- are off the charts. While that can be flawed (especially if receiving a lot of time with better players). It's hard to have 2 players heads and shoulders above the rest (him and Tamin) if they weren't playing well (two way game).

Personally, I'd love to see Jones under 8 per game. If that's the case, it means other guys have stepped up and the new guys are gelling. If he's averaging 16 a game, others are struggling with fouls, defending, or something else.

Note - I love Jones and what he' done and means to the team. I just think to take the next step we need to have a bit more dynamic play in that role.