Stats from Basketball trip

[HFCS]

I feel like the "sagging off" of Lipsey is more of a thing with the "coaches" on CF than it was actually an issue. I mean, maybe CF posters are smarter than Bill Self and Scott Drew, but they never did that. There was 5 mins of the K State game that it was clear they were doing that, but, beyond that, it wasn't a strategy many coaches used, even after it was evident Lipsey wasn't a threat. It wasn't an issue at all before the Grill injury and then only if Gabe and Holmes weren't hitting.

I mean, Lipsey being a threat will be a big benefit, no doubt, but if he's not, it's not the killer some on here believe, as long as there are other threats on the floor.

I agree with this.

You don't want to sag off a a team's primary playmaker anyway because it gives him a lane to the basket. I guess Ben Simmons is the ultimate extreme example, you don't have to defend his shot, but you can't just leave him alone to create either which is horrible strategy.

We've been in a desert for 3 point shooters. Too often we've been 3&D without the 3. I can't wait to have multiple 3pt shooting threats.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Personally, I'd love to see Jones under 8 per game. If that's the case, it means other guys have stepped up and the new guys are gelling. If he's averaging 16 a game, others are struggling with fouls, defending, or something else.

Note - I love Jones and what he' done and means to the team. I just think to take the next step we need to have a bit more dynamic play in that role.

I think he can be a critical piece and still average 8-12 minutes per game.

 

[NATEizKING]

Lasik for Lipsey?

 

[Jer]

I think he can be a critical piece and still average 8-12 minutes per game.

This is purely an opinion...

I love the dude, truly, but our offense as a whole slows down with him in - not just his shot selection/accuracy - especially because of Tamin's hesitancy. It's miles ahead of the statue Conditt was when he got the ball around the free-throw line, but I think we have better tools in our tool belt this year. We might not have somebody that has everything to take all of his minutes, but each of the others can play solid D and create more dynamic play or be bigger threats.

I'm not trying to diminish his effort and his big strides over the past couple years, I just think we have a lower ceiling with him getting more than 3rd man in the position minutes.

 

[ZRF]

Personally, I'd love to see Jones under 8 per game. If that's the case, it means other guys have stepped up and the new guys are gelling. If he's averaging 16 a game, others are struggling with fouls, defending, or something else.

Note - I love Jones and what he' done and means to the team. I just think to take the next step we need to have a bit more dynamic play in that role.

I agree with the caveat WHEN Jones plays within his abilities. There was a stretch last year where he was constantly trying to create in the post, namely putting the ball on the floor. When Jones holds the ball for 2-3+ seconds or puts it on the floor bad things usually happen. Toward the end of the season he seamed to figure that out and wasn't the liability he was for the first 2/3s of the Big 12 season.

 

[Jer]

I agree with the caveat WHEN Jones plays within his abilities. There was a stretch last year where he was constantly trying to create in the post, namely putting the ball on the floor. When Jones holds the ball for 2-3+ seconds or puts it on the floor bad things usually happen. Toward the end of the season he seamed to figure that out and wasn't the liability he was for the first 2/3s of the Big 12 season.

Absolutely. And unfortunately, he's been forced to play in positions and rotations that really aren't suited for him... simply out of need.

 

[NWICY]

With all credit to @Cyclones8824...

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

Reworked the data as a table --

PLAYING TIME AND EFFICIENCY STATS

View attachment 115505

SHOOTING STATS

View attachment 115506

COUNTING STATS

View attachment 115507

Nice job Sig! I knew your computer wizardry was good for something.

 

[NENick]

Lipsey will be fine, more than fine, excellent. He will average double figures in points and 5-7 assists per game with a lower TO average than last year. Every coach in the conference would love to have him. And he'll be a Cyclone for exciting 4 years!

I can't wait to watch!

 

[Cyforce]

Lipsey needs to be able to do something to keep his defender within reasonable proximity of himself, or the opponent is going to use his defender to actively double team the other ISU players or clog up the middle, and it's going to disrpt the the rest of the offense just like it did last year. As noted above, opponents were sagging way off him in conference play.

If he doesn't his role will be reduced. Too many guards that can fill that role.

 

[ZRF]

If he doesn't his role will be reduced. Too many guards that can fill that role.

Too many guards that can play excellent point and fantastic defense? Not on this team.

To some of the earlier talk about opponents sagging off it definitely WAS an issue. I'm actually shocked it wasn't exposed more after the Missouri and Ttech games. Not only would Lipsey not shoot a wide open shot, he would be hesitate to drive despite the breathing room. If I'm an opponent I'm making him show me he is willing to utilize that space, be it shooting threes or driving to create. As long as he's hesitating I'm falling back.

I'd like to think he will be more instinctive in those situations. Even if his 3 sucks he can still be deadly if he drives and uses that as a catalyst to score or creating for his teammates. As for coaches like Self and Drew not doing it more...both are great coaches but neither is perfect (sometimes Self picks very peculiar spots where he refuses to budge). My best guess is he was worried about a single game strategy leaving his players/team with some bad habits, in sagging off players (they shouldn't) in other areas. They may also be worried about it compromising the integrity of their defense during a game, with guys screwing up and rotating when he wouldn't want them to.

One thing is for sure, if the geniuses at Mizzou and Ttech saw his issues everyone did. I'd also believe more coaches will deploy the sag off until Lipsey shows he can use it against them. I'd like to think he will but until we see it we won't know for sure.

 

[ZRF]

This is purely an opinion...

I love the dude, truly, but our offense as a whole slows down with him in - not just his shot selection/accuracy - especially because of Tamin's hesitancy. It's miles ahead of the statue Conditt was when he got the ball around the free-throw line, but I think we have better tools in our tool belt this year. We might not have somebody that has everything to take all of his minutes, but each of the others can play solid D and create more dynamic play or be bigger threats.

I'm not trying to diminish his effort and his big strides over the past couple years, I just think we have a lower ceiling with him getting more than 3rd man in the position minutes.

On paper this team is a lot more athletic than last years. I think we will utilize a lot more transition, an area where Bob's lack of athleticism (and skill) hurts us offensively. He can "run" the floor but he's not an alley oop threat, isn't going to beat anyone with his athleticism, and doesn't have the hands for the quick passes in those situations. Ward and King are both infinitely better here.

When it comes down to it the ONLY thing BRE does with excellence is defend the post positionally. He does NOT give up space on the block and fights hard to prevent clean entries. In this regard he's not only the best on the team he may arguably be the best in the Big 12. Realistically this asset is mitigated by the fact there are few (true) post players in college basketball, let alone the league. If Iowa State was playing Purdue last year I probably would have wanted BRE to play a lot of minutes as I think he would have been our best defender against him on the block. But you maybe see a guy in the realm of Edey maybe once every 10-15 games. Hell, Wilson was probably the best post player in the league and that wasn't his main/only forte.

When Rob plays within himself he is more a less a "break even" player, a guy who can eat some minutes while not digging the team into a hole. But if you believe you have guys that can play the same/similar role and be consistenty better than "break-even" players you play those guys. I firmly believe Ward and King are MILES better than BRE in most facets of the game. They are both more athletic, better rebounders, better perimeter (on switches) defenders, and offer a lot more scoring capabilities. One thing King needs to emulate from BRE is fighting more in the post to prevent positioning. There were a lot of times King made it easy for opponents to set up cleanly and easily lob in entry passes. In the post that's at least 50% of your defense right there.

I agree with this wholeheartedly in that BRE is optimally an 8-10 minute guy. More when foul trouble necessitates, maybe more with a particular matchup (rare), but on every good team (not just his team) he's a low-end, minutes eating guy. If he's getting 16-22 minutes a game (with consistency) people aren't doing their jobs or the coaching staff is screwing up. On that last note I've said repeatedly I thought King should have had an expanded role (ie eating BRE's minutes) before he did. And once they gave Ward more than a few scrap minutes his impact was profound.

 

[madguy30]

I agree with this.

You don't want to sag off a a team's primary playmaker anyway because it gives him a lane to the basket. I guess Ben Simmons is the ultimate extreme example, you don't have to defend his shot, but you can't just leave him alone to create either which is horrible strategy.

We've been in a desert for 3 point shooters. Too often we've been 3&D without the 3. I can't wait to have multiple 3pt shooting threats.

It's kind of remarkable that in the 2020s there are guards that aren't reliable from 3. Caleb was prior to the injury I guess but it still seemed pretty streaky and some of his shots were pretty wild, haha.

It was even more astonishing last winter seeing them in person and having multiple guards that struggled to dribble in the open court with their eyes up (Grill and Gabe).

If I were to be told that a team had those sorts of issues I wouldn't pick them to have an overall winning record let alone a tourney bid.

 

[Sigmapolis]

It's kind of remarkable that in the 2020s there are guards that aren't reliable from 3. Caleb was prior to the injury I guess but it still seemed pretty streaky and some of his shots were pretty wild, haha.

It was even more astonishing last winter seeing them in person and having multiple guards that struggled to dribble in the open court with their eyes up (Grill and Gabe).

If I were to be told that a team had those sorts of issues I wouldn't pick them to have an overall winning record let alone a tourney bid.

You say all this, but it was still the tenth best (at least measured by SRS) team in school history --



It did that against one of the most difficult schedules in school history --



All that despite, as you said, having a bunch of at best streaky shooters (e.g., Holmes, Kalscheur, and Grill) and playing a non-shooting PG almost 40 minutes per night for lack of other options.

It was a heck of a coaching job. TJ took the talent of a good mid-major and went 9-9 in the Big 12 and even had a few of the more breathless on here expecting a Big 12 title out of it.

I'm excited to see what he does with a young but much more talented squad.

 

[jbhtexas]

Too many guards that can play excellent point and fantastic defense? Not on this team.

To some of the earlier talk about opponents sagging off it definitely WAS an issue. I'm actually shocked it wasn't exposed more after the Missouri and Ttech games. Not only would Lipsey not shoot a wide open shot, he would be hesitate to drive despite the breathing room. If I'm an opponent I'm making him show me he is willing to utilize that space, be it shooting threes or driving to create. As long as he's hesitating I'm falling back.

I'd like to think he will be more instinctive in those situations. Even if his 3 sucks he can still be deadly if he drives and uses that as a catalyst to score or creating for his teammates. As for coaches like Self and Drew not doing it more...both are great coaches but neither is perfect (sometimes Self picks very peculiar spots where he refuses to budge). My best guess is he was worried about a single game strategy leaving his players/team with some bad habits, in sagging off players (they shouldn't) in other areas. They may also be worried about it compromising the integrity of their defense during a game, with guys screwing up and rotating when he wouldn't want them to.

One thing is for sure, if the geniuses at Mizzou and Ttech saw his issues everyone did. I'd also believe more coaches will deploy the sag off until Lipsey shows he can use it against them. I'd like to think he will but until we see it we won't know for sure.

Lipsey was a true freshman last year, and the Big 12 is really tough place to start as a freshman. I'm hoping he gets the green light to be more aggressive this year, and perhaps he has added some strength so he can be one of those driving/finishing guards that seem to routinely victimize ISU.

 

[Statefan10]

Lipsey was a true freshman last year, and the Big 12 is really tough place to start as a freshman. I'm hoping he gets the green light to be more aggressive this year, and perhaps he has added some strength so he can be one of those driving/finishing guards that seem to routinely victimize ISU.

He was already arguably the most physical PG in the league last year and he will be again. He may not make a ton of threes but he'll knock down some throughout the year that'll make the defense more honest than they were last year.

 

[Royalclone]

Looks like Hawley and Fish will get plenty of time to compare notes on their favorite KC BBQ restaurants.

 

[madguy30]

You say all this, but it was still the tenth best (at least measured by SRS) team in school history --

View attachment 115558

It did that against one of the most difficult schedules in school history --

View attachment 115559

All that despite, as you said, having a bunch of at best streaky shooters (e.g., Holmes, Kalscheur, and Grill) and playing a non-shooting PG almost 40 minutes per night for lack of other options.

It was a heck of a coaching job. TJ took the talent of a good mid-major and went 9-9 in the Big 12 and even had a few of the more breathless on here expecting a Big 12 title out of it.

I'm excited to see what he does with a young but much more talented squad.

Did I say they weren't a good team?

They were exceptional elsewhere and the practically auto-chemistry of TJ's first two teams also seems ungeard of. It's still astounding that the shooting was so poor in the current era.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Did I say they weren't a good team?

No.

I was agreeing with and building on your point.

They were exceptional elsewhere and the practically auto-chemistry of TJ's first two teams also seems ungeard of. It's still astounding that the shooting was so poor in the current era.

They were maybe in the 40th percentile of 3% for high-major teams last year...

https://www.barttorvik.com/?sort=18...=0&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0&quad=5&rpi=#



Here is the bottom of the list...



MSU was a hilariously bad 26.6% *AS A TEAM* but still managed to make it to Dayton.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Looks like Hawley and Fish will get plenty of time to compare notes on their favorite KC BBQ restaurants.

Am curious why Fish and Hamilton didn't get a little more run, given that this was all exhibition. Not going to read into it though.

 

[cyclones12321]

Here are cumulative stats from the 3 games played in the Bahamas, all numbers in parentheses represent per game averages. Also leaderboards at the bottom. Let me know who or what you are most impressed by

Tamin Lipsey- Mins- 80:33

PTS- 33 (11)

FG/FGA- 10/21

FG%- 48%

2P/2PA- 10/17

2P%- 59%

3P/3PA- 0/4

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 13-17

FT%- 76%

ORB- 5 (1.6)

DRB- 8 (2.6)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 16 (5.3)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 6 (2)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 91



Tre King- Mins- 55:45

PTS- 34 (11.3)

FG/FGA- 14/23

FG%- 61%

2P/2PA- 12/20

2P%- (60%)

3P/3PA- 2/5

3P%- 40%

FT/FTA- 4/7

FT%- 57%

ORB- 2 (0.6)

DRB- 7 (2.3)

TRB- 9 (3)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 3 (1)

BLK- 1 (.3)

PF- 11 (3.6)

+_- 91



Keshon Gilbert Mins- 71:14

PTS- 44 (14.6)

FG/FGA- 18/24

FG%- 75%

2P/2PA- 16/20

2P%- 75%

3P/3PA- 2/5

3P%- 40%

FT/FTA- 6/7

FT%- 85%

ORB- 1 (0.3)

DRB- 12 (4)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 13 (4.3)

TO- 9 (3)

STL- 10 (3.3)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 113



Demarion Watson Mins- 37:26

PTS- 14 (4.6)

FG/FGA- 6/12

FG%- 50%

2P/2PA- 6/9

2P%- 66%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 5 (1.6)

DRB- 5 (1.6)

TRB- 10 (3.3)

AST- 0

TO- 1 (0.3)

STL- 5 (1.6)

BLK- 0

PF- 7 (2.3)

+_- 57



Robert Jones Mins- 48:47

PTS- 12 (4)

FG/FGA- 5/11

FG%- 45%

2P/2PA- 5/10

2P%-50%

3P/3PA- 0-1

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 6 (2)

DRB- 2 (0.6)

TRB- 8 (2.6)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 4 (1.3)

STL- 2 (0.6)

BLK- 0

PF- 6 (2)

+_- 52



Jackson Paveletzke-Mins- 52:01

PTS- 24 (8)

FG/FGA- 9/16

FG%- 56%

2P/2PA- 4/9

2P%- 44%

3P/3PA- 5/7

3P%- 71%

FT/FTA- 1/2

FT%- 50%

ORB- 0

DRB- 3 (1)

TRB- 3 (1)

AST- 13 (4.3)

TO- 6 (2)

STL- 4 (1.3)

BLK- 0

PF- 4 (1.3)

+_- 11



Curtis Jones Mins- 68:16

PTS- 53 (17.6)

FG/FGA- 20/39

FG%- 51%

2P/2PA- 8/11

2P%- 72%

3P/3PA- 12/28

3P%- 42%

FT/FTA- 1-1

FT%- 100%

ORB- 2 (0.6)

DuRB- 8 (2.6)

TRB- 10 (3.3)

AST- 3 (1)

TO- 3 (1)

STL- 6 (2)

BLK- 0

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 4



Omaha Biliew- Mins- 39:32

PTS- 11 (3.6)

FG/FGA- 5/9

FG%- 55%

2P/2PA- 5/6

2P%-83%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 1-2

FT%- 50%

ORB- 7 (2.3)

DRB- 6 (2)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 2 (0.6)

TO- 5 (1.6)

STL- 3 (1)

BLK- 0

PF- 10 (3.3)

+_- 9



Hasan Ward- Mins- 53:12

PTS- 18 (6)

FG/FGA- 6/8

FG%- 75%

2P/2PA- 6/8

2P%- 75%

3P/3PA- 0-0

3P%- N/A

FT/FTA- 6-9

FT%- 66%

ORB- 1 (0.3)

DRB- 11 (3.6)

TRB- 12 (4)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 7 (2.3)

STL- 0

BLK- 4 (1.3)

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 59



Milan Momcilovic- Mins- 50:02

PTS- 18 (6)

FG/FGA- 6/21

FG%- 28%

2P/2PA- 2/9

2P%- 22%

3P/3PA- 4/12

3P%- 33%

FT/FTA- 2/2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 6 (2)

DRB- 7 (2.3)

TRB- 13 (4.3)

AST- 1 (0.3)

TO- 3 (1)

STL- 1 (0.3)

BLK- 2 (0.6)

PF- 8 (2.6)

+_- 7



Jelani Hamilton- Mins- 19:13

PTS- 2 (1)

FG/FGA- 0-5

FG%- 0%

2P/2PA- 0-4

2P%- 0%

3P/3PA- 0-3

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 2-2

FT%- 100%

ORB- 1 (0.5)

DRB- 1 (0.5)

TRB- 2 (1)

AST- 2 (1)

TO- 1 (0.5)

STL- 4 (2)

BLK- 1 (0.5)

PF- 4 (2)

+_- 4 (2)

2 Games



Kayden Fish- Mins- 15:55

PTS- 6 (3)

FG/FGA- 3-5

FG%- 60%

2P/2PA- 3-5

2P%- 60%

3P/3PA- 0-0

3P%- N/A

FT/FTA- 0-2

FT%- 0%

ORB- 1 (0.5)

DRB- 3 (1.5)

TRB- 4 (2)

AST- 0

TO- 2 (1)

STL- 1 (0.5)

BLK- 0

PF- 3 (1.5)

+_- 6

2 Games



Conrad Hawley-Mins- 6:27

PTS- 2 (1)

FG/FGA- 1-3

FG%- 33%

2P/2PA- 1-2

2P%- 50%

3P/3PA- 0-1

3P%- 0%

FT/FTA- 0-0

FT%- N/A

ORB- 3 (1.5)

DRB- 1 (0.5)

TRB- 4 (2)

AST- 0

TO- 2 (1)

STL- 0

BLK- 0

PF- 2 (1)

+_- 3

2 Games



Cade Kelderman- Mins- 6:58

PTS- 5 (2.5)

FG/FGA- 2/3

FG%- 66%

2P/2PA- 1/2

2P%- 50%

3P/3PA- 1-1

3P%- 100%

FT/FTA- 0-0

FT%- N/A

ORB- 0

DRB- 0

TRB- 0

AST- 0

TO- 0

STL- 2 (1)

BLK- 0

PF- 1

+_- 3

2 Games



Leaderboard

Points- 1.Curtis Jones 2.Keshon Gilbert 3. Tre King 4.Tamin Lipsey 5.Jackson Paveletzke

Rebounds- T1.Tamin Lipsey T1.Keshon Gilbert T1.Omaha Biliew T1.Milan Momcilovic 5.Hasan Ward

Assists- 1.Tamin Lipsey T2.Keshon Gilbert T2.Jackson Paveletzke 4.Curtis Jones T5.Omaha Biliew T5.Jelani Hamilton

Steals- 1.Keshon Gilbert T2.Tamin Lipsey T2.Curtis Jones 4.Demarion Watson T5.Jackson Paveletzke T5.Jelani Hamilton

Blocks- 1.Hasan Ward 2.Milan Momcilovic T3.Tre King T3.Jelani Hamilton

Thank you for sharing