Jirehl Brock status?

[Statefan10]

I'm talking more like if just one or two more plays is made against any of those teams for the win. Even the defense holding Tech after ISU got the lead.

The stats wouldn't be much different. I suppose maybe a bit better for field goals but the overall special teams would still be pretty poor.

Had we found ways to win those three games you mentioned, it would’ve been good for last years team but would’ve put a band aid over the legit program issues that were coming to light. I would’ve thought of us just like Iowa in that were a bad team with an elite defense.

 

[NATEizKING]

Breece did see a jump right after committing 6/28/18 but was still very much 3* before that:

 

[JM4CY]

Had we found ways to win those three games you mentioned, it would’ve been good for last years team but would’ve put a band aid over the legit program issues that were coming to light. I would’ve thought of us just like Iowa in that were a bad team with an elite defense.

Aka lipstick on a pig. You can paint that turd of 2022 season orange but it’s still an orange turd.

 

[Clonefan32]

You said we lost everyone and I'm telling you that we didn't. We lost no doubt some important pieces but they literally went to the NFL so idk why you're even bringing them up? That's why we recruit, so we can reload the guys we do lose into those positions. The logic of thinking that because those guys graduated and moved on that we're going to suck is elementary.

The guys we lost to the scandals will sting at first, but if those are the types of guys that were on our team, no wonder we were horrible on offense. Not to mention Hanika was arguably being pushed from his spot, Brock literally couldn't stay healthy, Remsburg barely played last year, and Dekkers threw some of the most interceptions out of anyone in P5. Would we have liked to have them back if they were bought into the team? Absolutely, because they no doubt would've helped, but they weren't bought in and they were actively breaking team and NCAA rules.

There's nothing more quintessentially "sports fan" than the "everyone that left sucked and all the guys who were behind them are awesome" theory. Just assuming the new guys are going to come in and produce at a high level is just wishful thinking.

I can distinctly remember this same conversation about Purdy. Dekkers had more arm talent and many were excited to move on. Look how that turned out.

 

[Clonefan32]

Brock was 25% production from RB position last year. 99 for 460 is replaceable
Hanika was 50% of receptions/yards from TE position. 17/244 is replaceable

Lee: 22 tackles, 1.5 TFL, 2 QB hurries.

Dekkers is the only one that statistically will be "hard to replace". But as mention above, he was a TO machine. We get someone in there that doesn't turn it over as much and we will be fine.

Alot of Dekkers issues were no protection and receivers that couldn't get open quickly enough. I'd love to hear how those problems have been solved.

 

[NorthCyd]

I am so sick of this ******* off season. I'm just ready for the season to get underway so we can either celebrate a great turnaround or put another crap season behind us and move on to basketball.

 

[Statefan10]

There's nothing more quintessentially "sports fan" than the "everyone that left sucked and all the guys who were behind them are awesome" theory. Just assuming the new guys are going to come in and produce at a high level is just wishful thinking.

Please point to where I stated the guys that were involved in the sports gambling scandal sucked? I did not state that. I said that they were literally breaking team rules and committing NCAA violations by betting on their own team. As someone who has been around bad cultures on teams before, simply losing those types of guys can do wonders and light a spark around the program. Not to mention two of the guys involved literally couldn't stay healthy. As I said earlier, it's not going to be addition by subtraction right away, and there are most certainly going to be growing pains, but we've recruited very well over the years for this to be less of an issue than it would've been in years past. Not to mention we made the necessary changes across the board to help as well.

I maybe being optimistic, but I'm not sitting here saying we're going to go out and win 8 games. Hell, I even called out an ISU fan yesterday who said he sees us going 9-3. That's outrageous. I think we can win 5-6 games and 7 would be absolute best case scenario imo. I'm just not going to throw away the season without seeing a snap of live football.

 

[MyNameEhJeff]

It's exactly true, Best Quarterback, best running back, best wide receiver. Sooo Yes it's actually true.

You do realize that yes, we lost some important pieces, but we’ve got higher rated recruits who will be replacing everyone we lost, outside of Jirehl, and he’s barely played since he’s been at ISU, right?

 

[Statefan10]

Alot of Dekkers issues were no protection and receivers that couldn't get open quickly enough. I'd love to hear how those problems have been solved.

We made like 5-6 big shake ups in our entire football staff...

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Alot of Dekkers issues were no protection and receivers that couldn't get open quickly enough. I'd love to hear how those problems have been solved.

New OC and OL coach hopefully are the answers to your questions.

 

[Clonefan32]

Please point to where I stated the guys that were involved in the sports gambling scandal sucked? I did not state that. I said that they were literally breaking team rules and committing NCAA violations by betting on their own team. As someone who has been around bad cultures on teams before, simply losing those types of guys can do wonders and light a spark around the program. Not to mention two of the guys involved literally couldn't stay healthy. As I said earlier, it's not going to be addition by subtraction right away, and there are most certainly going to be growing pains, but we've recruited very well over the years for this to be less of an issue than it would've been in years past. Not to mention we made the necessary changes across the board to help as well.

I maybe being optimistic, but I'm not sitting here saying we're going to go out and win 8 games. Hell, I even called out an ISU fan yesterday who said he sees us going 9-3. That's outrageous. I think we can win 5-6 games and 7 would be absolute best case scenario imo. I'm just not going to throw away the season without seeing a snap of live football.

Go back to the original post you took issue with:

Hard not to be when we lost all of the guys we have lost off last years very average team, and I would say below average.

First of all, that isn't even referencing the guys we lost to gambling. All he's saying is we had a below average team last year, and between NFL, transfer, gambling, etc. we lost alot off that team, to which you said "that's not true". But it is true. Maybe Dekkers, Lee, Hanika and Brock aren't huge deals, But coupled with X, Anthony Johnson, Vance, MJ Anderson-- that becomes a big deal, especially for a team that only won 4 games.

 

[AllInForISU]

There's nothing more quintessentially "sports fan" than the "everyone that left sucked and all the guys who were behind them are awesome" theory. Just assuming the new guys are going to come in and produce at a high level is just wishful thinking.

I can distinctly remember this same conversation about Purdy. Dekkers had more arm talent and many were excited to move on. Look how that turned out.

The last 2 QBs ISU has had with “elite arm talent” were Jacob Park and Hunter Dekkers. Maybe we should stick with the “intelligent” QBs like Purdy and Kempt. Seems like the only guys we can get with elite arm talent are also elite headcases.

 

[AllInForISU]

Alot of Dekkers issues were no protection and receivers that couldn't get open quickly enough. I'd love to hear how those problems have been solved.

It maybe started that way, but as the season went on and those guys started to figure it out, Dekkers didn’t. If #8 was on the field, that’s where the ball was going.

 

[NWICY]

I have a feeling this season is going to be another dumpster fire. Are the players even buying into anything the staff says anymore?

What makes you say this?

 

[NWICY]

I'd love to hear an argument on how we didn't lose alot of guys from an average team last year.

Top 3 receiver in school history (X), top DL in school history (Will) , our QB (Dekkers), our starting RB (Brock), our 2nd best DL (MJ Anderson), our RT (Remsburg), our center (Downing), our starting NG (Lee), our starting MLB (Vance) and probably our best TE by the end of last year (Hanika).

I'm not so sure Dekkers is much of a loss.

 

[mitchforcy]

I'm not so sure Dekkers is much of a loss.

Losing his experience is what hurts. Kind of sucks having to go into another year with a first year starter with zero meaningful big 12 experience.

 

[madguy30]

You do realize that yes, we lost some important pieces, but we’ve got higher rated recruits who will be replacing everyone we lost, outside of Jirehl, and he’s barely played since he’s been at ISU, right?

People are blowing it up like ISU lost a Montgomery or Hall when he was the experienced back last year and was pretty good if/when he played.

 

[Statefan10]

Go back to the original post you took issue with:



First of all, that isn't even referencing the guys we lost to gambling. All he's saying is we had a below average team last year, and between NFL, transfer, gambling, etc. we lost alot off that team, to which you said "that's not true". But it is true. Maybe Dekkers, Lee, Hanika and Brock aren't huge deals, But coupled with X, Anthony Johnson, Vance, MJ Anderson-- that becomes a big deal, especially for a team that only won 4 games.

That's where I'll say I initially believed he was only talking about the gambling guys, and the reason I thought that was because the guys we lost to the NFL were all known to be leaving (outside of MJ). We've recruited at all of those positions very well to be able to replace them, not with guys that are close to their level, but guys who after gaining some experience should end up being capable players. That's not even mentioning there will be guys that flat out pop out of nowhere.

Higgins is going to be a good replacement for X. Not a direct 1v1, but I'm also optimistic that we're not going to be running our entire offense based on getting one WR the ball. We have very talented, albeit young, WR's who had some very good offers out of HS that will get their shot this year. Our secondary is about to be better than it was last year so replacing AJ is not going to be that big. We have some elite players across the board there. Our LB core is young too, but again, we're filling it with some very talented young guys and some have some experience already. DL is the least of my worries because Coach Rasheed has proven time and time again that he'll have guys ready to step in and produce.

 

[Clonefan32]

That's where I'll say I initially believed he was only talking about the gambling guys, and the reason I thought that was because the guys we lost to the NFL were all known to be leaving (outside of MJ). We've recruited at all of those positions very well to be able to replace them, not with guys that are close to their level, but guys who after gaining some experience should end up being capable players. That's not even mentioning there will be guys that flat out pop out of nowhere.

Higgins is going to be a good replacement for X. Not a direct 1v1, but I'm also optimistic that we're not going to be running our entire offense based on getting one WR the ball. We have very talented, albeit young, WR's who had some very good offers out of HS that will get their shot this year. Our secondary is about to be better than it was last year so replacing AJ is not going to be that big. We have some elite players across the board there. Our LB core is young too, but again, we're filling it with some very talented young guys and some have some experience already. DL is the least of my worries because Coach Rasheed has proven time and time again that he'll have guys ready to step in and produce.

I hate being in a position to be debbie downer, but there's alot of optimistic projection here. I mean, re-read that second paragraph. Every young guy is talented, every old guy is not that big of a deal. I don't know how you can say with a straight face that a transfer from Eastern Kentucky is going to be a replacement for probably our best receiver of all time, and how losing Johnson "is not going to be that big". Just kind of foo-fooing the loss of 2 all-timers here.

Again, I just become leery of the typical fan opinions that minimize the guys that left and oversell the guys that are coming up. Last year I remember it with Brock, as well as thinking Freyler was better than Isheem Young.

 

[Drew0311]

My point was not that you thought they shouldn't be kicked off the team it was that the guys we lost during this probe were not good for the program. They just weren't. Is it going to be addition by subtraction? Not right away as I believe there will definitely be growing pains. My point about Dekkers holds weight when you don't think about it in a vacuum like you are though. Rocco is not a freshman QB anymore. He's had essentially all spring, summer, and fall to prepare as the starting QB. And I know that Dekkers has more arm talent than Rocco but something wasn't right in Hunter's head last year and idk if he just couldn't read defenses, or the offensive play calling confused him, or what. If Rocco can limit turnovers, OL is just competent, and our ST is okay, we will be an average football team this year.

I wish we could mark this thread so we can come back and look at what we both said at the end of the season. I bet I am way more accurate on my guess than you are going to be.