Williams & Blum Pod: Red alert on bowl season, Liberty Bowl thoughts & hoops wrap-up

[CloniesForLife]

I'll retract from saying they're all-out meaningless. There's money involved and the team benefits from practices, etc.

I think they're overvalued as a predictor or 'springboard' for the program into the next season. There's just so much that goes into a different season 8 months later.

I think that's a fair take. I definitely agree that the springboard to next year is overvalued. I just think for a program like ISU it is pretty meaningful as you try and build. We need all the wins we can get. Keep building the perception of the program.

I also just think the whole meaningless narrative is a little bit self fulfilling

 

[xboxfever]

I would think Campbell's record over last 8 years is higher than 45-50 nationally among P5 programs.

How about looking at Matt Campbell's Big12 winning percentage vs. McCarney, Chizek or Rhoads.

McCarney: 27-68 (.284)
Chizek: 2-14 (.125)
Rhoads: 16-45 (.262)
Campbell: 38-34 (.528)

Sure ISU fans should want the Clones to take the next step. But to minimize what Campbell has done at Iowa State is not knowing or ignoring our football history. Here's a stat for you. After 72 Big12 games, if Campbell had McCarney's .284 win percentage, Campbell would only have 21 Big12 wins!! I'd say Campbell has set the standard, by far, for ISU Coaches.

BTW, Johnny Majors was 9-25-1 and Earl Bruce was 18-24 in Big8 play.

What does anything you said have to do with what his pay is? You’re only looking at him with ISU glasses and through ISU lenses and not national unbiased lenses/glasses. His pay is right in line with his results.

 

[Ankency]

I was just typing the EXACT same thing. It works both ways.

Their schtick is incredibly tiring and after losses people like them make this board nearly unreadable. I’m not sure how many times I can read “Campbell sucks and if you don’t agree with me you’re part of the problem” before getting fatigued.

THIS!!!
Love how you people lay in the weeds and wait for a loss and want everybody fired and the whole thing burnt down despite all Campbell and staff have done to elevate the program. I was as mad and disappointed as anyone after a bad loss, but good grief have some perspective or start your own crybaby message board and complain endlessly about the program and how you have all the answers and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy being Cyclone fans!!!

 

[isucy86]

What does anything you said have to do with what his pay is? You’re only looking at him with ISU glasses and through ISU lenses and not national unbiased lenses/glasses. His pay is right in line with his results.

Campbell's salary is tied at 8/9 among the twelve Big12 schools that report. TCU and BYU are private and don't release HC salary.

Based on Campbell's Big12 record over the last 8 years, I could easily argue he should be making in the ballpark of what Leipold and Sarkisian are making.

And Campbell's success at ISU vs. McCarney and Rhoads is a valid reason for paying him a premium. Plus, if Campbell were to leave, I bet Jamie would have to pay close to $5M for a new coach. Fritz got $4.5M at Houston.

Per Houston Chronicle Article on 12/4/2023

Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State	$7.625 million
Brent Venables, Oklahoma	$7.1 million
Lance Leipold, Kansas	$5.75 million
Steve Sarkisian, Texas	$5.6 million
Chris Kleiman, Kansas State	$4.75 million
Willie Fritz, Houston	$4.5 million
Joey McGuire, Texas Tech	$4.1 million
Matt Campbell, Iowa State	$4.05 million
Neal Brown, West Virginia	$4.05 million
Scott Satterfield, Cincinnati	$3.54 million
Dave Aranda, Baylor	$3.021 million
Gus Malzahn, UCF	$2.3 million

 

[BryceC]

We learned that “our fan base is behind the times” if we don’t realize that games today like the Liberty Bowl are just exhibitions.

Extremely weird CF wasted the money to go to Memphis for a meaningless game.

 

[Gary_ISU]

If you guys actually listened to the podcast, we were complimenting Iowa State's fan base for still caring about games like these. I understand it's a sign of the era in which we live but some of the crap that many of you make up just to be outraged is just exhausting.

I listened to the podcast and it was a bit all over the place. You would be critical of ISU but then make excuses. You would compliment ISU fans but then say we need to catch up with the times.

The one comment you made that did resonate with me was about how Campbell has a tendency to over value what they have up front. He went into that game convinced he could get pressure rushing 3 and convinced he could run the ball. He was completely wrong with both approaches which got us down 19-0 and game over.

I believe Campbell consistently overestimates his team’s ability to simply impose their will against opponents. Campbell believes he can beat Iowa playing Kirk’s game. He believes he can physically dominate non-P5 opponents. KU game this year was a classic example of coming into the game with a plan that simply had no chance at succeeding.

I think we could go 9-3 next year but will likely be 7-5 because there will be at least 2 Memphis, Iowa, Ohio and KU games where Campbell completely overestimates what his team can do and is too stubborn to change before we get into a hole.

 

[SwirlyBird]

The interim d coordinator thing to me is pretty weak. We've played a whole year of football. If the new defensive alignment throws off the opening drive that makes sense but a P5 football team at the end of the year with all their starters should be able to make an adjustment. Campbell's teams never give up which I appreciate but I'd like to see quicker adjustments in game. Seems like we often wait too long and can get back in the game but have a super small chance of actually winning.

It's unintelligent and passing the buck onto an indefensible target because they are new.

 

[CydeofFries]

I don't get how so many posters are so obtuse to the fact the game can both be important to fans and the teams that play them while also being meaningless in the general sense.

No one is going to think twice about this game outside of these two fan bases. It's a one off game 4 weeks after the previous game. It's like the NCAA tournament. Yeah we should have beat Pitt but no one (outside of us and them) thought of that game after the tournament was over.

Now if you include this game with other games to create a trend (i.e. haven't scored against a ranked team in 2 years, or never made the sweet sixteen in 7 tries), that's a different thing entirely.

 

[CloniesForLife]

I don't get how so many posters are so obtuse to the fact the game can both be important to fans and the teams that play them while also being meaningless in the general sense.

No one is going to think twice about this game outside of these two fan bases. It's a one off game 4 weeks after the previous game. It's like the NCAA tournament. Yeah we should have beat Pitt but no one (outside of us and them) thought of that game after the tournament was over.

Now if you include this game with other games to create a trend (i.e. haven't scored against a ranked team in 2 years, or never made the sweet sixteen in 7 tries), that's a different thing entirely.

I mean if you apply this logic that's probably like 80% of our games

 

[madguy30]

Agree completely here and thanks for the compelling discussion during the podcast. There is not much you can do about dealing with the lunatic fringe here on CF or on X.

A couple of points re' the podcast. One is your discussion re' the DL. Everyone can agree that the DL lacks a Will McD to generate a consistent pass rush from a 3 man front but the DL did their job for the most part this season which is stuff the run and enable the LBs to make plays out of the 3-3-5. That said, I look for Snyder, Ezeogo and Same to help improve the DE pass rush next season but Heacock/Viedt have got to improve the scheme and technique of the LBs as well in pass rush situations. IMO, that was a bigger problem than the DL personnel. And I that get outside of Vaughn, the LBs that got most of the snaps were all FR and Sophs so all of those returning guys (Bacon, Ebel, McLaughlin, Willich, Sadowsky) who got significant snaps this season will get better.

Regarding bowls, one no brainer fix to make at least 7 of them more compelling is to have a separate 8 team G5 playoff. It is absolutely pathetic that G5 programs currently don't have a legitimate path to compete for a national championship (even in an expanded CFP) and I strongly believe that an 8 team playoff strategically staged at 7 different regional bowl venues would be a hit both on the field and on TV.

Isn't there smoke about there being an auto-bid for the highest rated G5 team to be in the 12 team playoff?

 

[SolarGarlic]

We learned that “our fan base is behind the times” if we don’t realize that games today like the Liberty Bowl are just exhibitions.

This after CW told us for a month how this was going to be like a real bowl game because both teams would have full rosters. The first 25 minutes of the pod was some serious copium.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

I personally don’t understand the importance of winning or losing a mid tier bowl game. Minnesota beat Bowling Green in the Quick Lane Bowl. Is that significant? If they lost, does that mean the program is destined to be a failure next year as well?

I view non NY6 games as a way to celebrate a good season by playing one more game where players can spend a few days before the game having fun in the host city. NY6 games will be the only games that truly matter starting next season. The only reason these non NY6 games exist is because they generate money. If these games no longer become profitable, the non NY6 games will eventually fold. There have been quite a few bowl games that have ceased to exist over the years for this very reason.

For these reasons, I really don’t care about non NY6 games and the winning/losing team from those games. Just my opinion; I respect others who feel differently

Perfectly said

 

[Big_Sill]

It seems pretty clear to me that true pay for play is the only way to fix all of the post season bowl problems. Obviously pay for play comes with a whole bunch of other huge landscape changes as well.

 

[CycloneSpinning]

This after CW told us for a month how this was going to be like a real bowl game because both teams would have full rosters. The first 25 minutes of the pod was some serious copium.

Even if you thought this was a real game going into it, I think many would have changed their mind as they saw the way it was broadcast. It did not feel like a real game.

 

[Die4Cy]

It seems pretty clear to me that true pay for play is the only way to fix all of the post season bowl problems. Obviously pay for play comes with a whole bunch of other huge landscape changes as well.

Let's get on with that part of things then. Because outside of the games on the field, everything about college football is ****** these days.

 

[cykadelic2]

I think that's a fair take. I definitely agree that the springboard to next year is overvalued. I just think for a program like ISU it is pretty meaningful as you try and build. We need all the wins we can get. Keep building the perception of the program.

I also just think the whole meaningless narrative is a little bit self fulfilling

I agree they are not completely meaningless but they are still exhibition games for the most part and have been for years.

Isn't there smoke about there being an auto-bid for the highest rated G5 team to be in the 12 team playoff?

Yes, they will have an auto bid but that doesn’t erase the absurdity of no path to a national title for all G5 conference champs.

 

[t-noah]

The biggest issue with CMC is his unwillingness to make a change when things are clearly not working (offensive change after Ohio excluded) The O Line for the 15th year is atrocious. Of course CW and Blum slobber over going to Memphis smh…

Haha, ok. I wasn't sure Campbell has been here 15 years.

Memphis has great blues and bbq, common.

 

[t-noah]

A little bit of the 'OL is all returning' is great here. That will help. Will we see it overall in over next season?

Defensive line can improve, LB's can improve, they seemed pretty stagnant to me much of the this past year. We'll see.

I realize we are not going to have the best athletes. Coaching needs to improve to compensate some. We need to be more dynamic. I'd like to think that Campbell is still young and learning.

 

[ghettocowboy4cy]

Haha, ok. I wasn't sure Campbell has been here 15 years.

Memphis has great blues and bbq, common.

Haven’t had a good OL since KO, Reggie Steven’s, Ben Lammack. Fight me.

 

[trevn]

Some people:

*hanging on every word CW and Blum say leading up to a game

After the game:

“THEY WERE WRONG AND LIED TO ME. I’M GOING TO TELL EVERYONE HOW DUMB THEY ARE AND NO ONE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM.”

Next pod -

*back to hanging on every word they say


Chris and Blum’s commentary is catered to their audience, which is a bunch of crazy Cyclone fans. Of course you’re going to get sunshine more often than not. Who is going to tune in to a couple of guys crapping on their favorite team? So you have two huge Cyclone fans, whose professional livelihoods revolve around the school, daring to be positive more often than not. Wow what a concept.