*** Official #10 Illinois vs #4 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[NY Chicago Fan]

Thinking about the game this morning, one thought: ISU plays all out every defensive possession all year. Leads to having #1 ranked defense but when they get to sweet16 it is not like there is another gear they can get to. Where as Illinois had good athletes who were not maximizing their effort on defense. People wondered why they looked better than expected, well some players play harder and do the little things better in big games where they are locked in more.

Flip side is ISU is not great consistently at offense. When you get to the big game ISU has less margin of error as they are not as skilled on offense, no level of hard work or focus can completely make up for that. Last night ISU made too many mistakes on offense which their baseline level could not make up for.

Does not mean they can not beat great Teams, but it is harder for them to consistently raise their overall play as tournament goes on

 

[NoCreativity]

Thinking about the game this morning, one thought: ISU plays all out every defensive possession all year. Leads to having #1 ranked defense but when they get to sweet16 it is not like there is another gear they can get to. Where as Illinois had good athletes who were not maximizing their effort on defense. People wondered why they looked better than expected, well some players play harder and do the little things better in big games where they are locked in more.

Flip side is ISU is not great consistently at offense. When you get to the big game ISU has less margin of error as they are not as skilled on offense, no level of hard work or focus can completely make up for that. Last night ISU made too many mistakes on offense which their baseline level could not make up for.

Does not mean they can not beat great Teams, but it is harder for them to consistently raise their overall play as tournament goes on

That's precisely why elite offensive teams scare the **** out of me. We've seen it over the last 3 years, Miami, Iowa and Missouri last year, and now Illinois. Teams that have a bad defense can turn it on for 1 game where our offense is what it is at this point.

 

[UnitedAgainstFran]

Legit how is Shannon allowed to play, and how do Illinois fans cheer him on?

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

 

[jcf817]

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

Seriously...this isn't difficult.

Only "yes" means "yes".

 

[NoCreativity]

some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)

On what planet is this considered a good idea to try this on a woman you just met?

He thought he was some big shot who could do whatever he wanted and not have any consequences becuase he can put a basketball through the net very well.

 

[cytor]

Seriously...this isn't difficult.

Only "yes" means "yes".

Correct. I've been to many bars when I was younger and nowhere is it ever appropriate to do what Shannon did to her. By definition, it is an act of rape.

Now, even though the University was overturned in the suspension, I'm guessing there was nothing in there that they could have just simply sat him out. It's a really bad look to play him in light of what happened.

No way would TJ put up with it. It's a bad look for the coach and the school.

 

[jcf817]

Correct. I've been to many bars when I was younger and nowhere is it ever appropriate to do what Shannon did to her. By definition, it is an act of rape.

Now, even though the University was overturned in the suspension, I'm guessing there was nothing in there that they could have just simply sat him out. It's a really bad look to play him in light of what happened.

No way would TJ put up with it. It's a bad look for the coach and the school.

Nothing pisses me off more than people making excuses for rapists.

 

[madguy30]

We tried one or two lobs but they were either intercepted or knocked away. I also don't remember us getting any charges, outside of them running through screens, and that is usually good for a couple every game.

I thought they fell in love with the lob too much the last few games. Last night looked like a good look was there but instead it got tossed up in traffic and Illinois was ready for it.

Goes against the 'make the simple play' directive from TJ.

 

[Cyrealist]

That's precisely why elite offensive teams scare the **** out of me. We've seen it over the last 3 years, Miami, Iowa and Missouri last year, and now Illinois. Teams that have a bad defense can turn it on for 1 game where our offense is what it is at this point.

We lost the game on offense. Our offensive possessions in the first half were painful to watch. As the color guy was saying, we were taking bad shots early in the shot clock. Illinois was playing well on defense, but we need to at least make them work at it and TRY to get an open shot. How many times do you need to dribble the ball into three 6'10" guys to realize it's not working?
At the same time, we can't really say the better team didn't win. Illinois is tall and athletic and were quicker to the ball than we were. For the amount of athletic talent, this team acquitted itself well.

 

[jctisu]

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

This is gross to read. But hey, he wins you basketball games. It doesn't matter how much time, etc. if she didn't consent and didn't want it, that's what matters. She may have been in pure shock or froze up with what was happening. We've taken away enough female liberties in this country, so please think about posting what you did because that was disgusting to read.

 

[CycloneErik]

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

WTF?
Maybe people didn't go far enough calling him a rapist.

 

[jctisu]

It's really too bad because I actually like the Illinois team (outside of Shannon) and how they play. But man, with the way their fanbase has brushed this whole thing aside like he's some sort of victim and "it's no big deal", I hope UConn pounds them into oblivion.

BTW everyone I am going to just lightly go stab my neighbor, but it will be with an olive fork and only go a few centimeters deep. I fully expect to not be charged with assault should he want to press charges.

 

[alarson]

what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)…

Please show us where in all that the consent is in her statement?

 

[alarson]

Here's my biggest thing about it. It would be one thing if they said "Federal judge reinstated him, so we are stuck with him". But they didn't do that. They celebrated it. They acted like he was the victim in all of this. You've got their socials acting like he had been the subject of some kind of unfair treatment.

At worst, he committed sexual assault. At best, he did something dumb that put himself in a very tenuous legal position. None of that should be celebrated, but alas your yokel fanbase keeps propping him up. Seriously, just think of how gross this is given what "he's back" from:

View attachment 126624

right, like even if it were consensual, fingering a girl in public in a bar is still a crime in Kansas I believe.

21-5513. Lewd and lascivious behavior. (a) Lewd and lascivious behavior is:

(1) Publicly engaging in otherwise lawful sexual intercourse or sodomy with knowledge or reasonable anticipation that the participants are being viewed by others; or

(2) publicly exposing a sex organ or exposing a sex organ in the presence of a person who is not the spouse of the offender and who has not consented thereto, with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desires of the offender or another.

(b) Lewd and lascivious behavior is a:

(1) Class B nonperson misdemeanor, if committed in the presence of a person 16 or more years of age; and

(2) severity level 9, person felony, if committed in the presence of a person under 16 years of age.

With sexual intercourse in kansas being defined as:

(a) "Sexual intercourse" means any penetration of the female sex organ by a finger, the male sex organ or any object. Any penetration, however slight, is sufficient to constitute sexual intercourse.

So at minimum a crime was committed, even with consent.

Its a misdemeanor, so if consensual it wouldnt be something someone would necessarily be kicked out for, but it certainly wouldnt be something you'd publicly celebrate their return after either.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

You know.....I can't tell you how many times I have been walking hand in hand with my wife and noticed another woman and waved her over. Only to then put my arm around her....then run my hand down into her stuff. I'm sure you have done it as well as have most rational thinking men. It's a wonderful thing, right? Makes for a great evening.


Exactly what was the reasoning for keeping him on the team......boys will be boys, men will be men and pimps will be pimps? You know...you don't need the court to tell you who can or cannot play basketball.

 

[cyclones500]

I thought they fell in love with the lob too much the last few games. Last night looked like a good look was there but instead it got tossed up in traffic and Illinois was ready for it.

Goes against the 'make the simple play' directive from TJ.

When it works, it's wonderful -- this season had numerous sweet lob-slams. There are games situations when you have to stay a bit more meat-and-potatoes, and at least one instance vs. Illinois seemed to come at a time we needed more sure-thing than highlight.

Then again, in first half there weren't a lot of 'sure thing' shots, so maybe it's miniscule.

 

[madguy30]

When it works, it's wonderful -- this season had numerous sweet lob-slams. There are games situations when you have to stay a bit more meat-and-potatoes, and at least one instance vs. Illinois seemed to come at a time we needed more sure-thing than highlight.

Then again, in first half there weren't a lot of 'sure thing' shots, so maybe it's miniscule.

The one I'm thinking of was in the 2nd half at some point so it was probably crucial.

 

[alarson]

Exactly what was the reasoning for keeping him on the team......boys will be boys, men will be men and pimps will be pimps? You know...you don't need the court to tell you who can or cannot play basketball.

Players have certainly lived in a coach's doghouse for a lot less.

 

[cyclones500]

The one I'm thinking of was in the 2nd half at some point so it was probably crucial.

You're correct, it was during one of those "we're just about to get back into it, but then ... " stretches.

 

[RagingCloner]

I come in peace. You guys are an impressive fan base, and program.

I want to try to genuinely answer the above question.

It’s not about “innocent until proven guilty”, as much as the absence of an actual crime.

The criminal complaint (alleged victim’s version of events) states:
- Terrence waved the woman over to him, where he already had one arm around another woman
- She obliged, he put his arm around her, hand on her shoulder.
- some time later, he moved his hand down to her rear end (over her skirt)
- then to her rear end under the skirt
- then eventually put his hand in her underwear, with penetration (apologies for being graphic)
- 5 to 10 seconds later she stepped away. At which point, he made no effort to continue or restrain her
- at no point did she attempt to stop him physically until the moment she stepped away, unimpeded.
- at no point did she say anything to indicate she wanted him to stop, “no”, or anything of the sort

That’s it. Three months later, after not interviewing anyone who was with Terrence and not interviewing the woman’s friend who was with her, the Lawrence County DA charged him with felony rape.

The university suspended him, as required by policy. A federal judge reviewed the case and the suspension and reinstated him.

The above are all facts, in that they are the alleged victim’s version of events.

My added conjecture is that the DA is under investigation and widely suspected of charging young men with felonies, thereby securing plea deals for misdemeanors when they are threatened with 20 years in prison, boosting her sexual assault convictions.

Not his proudest moment to be sure, but not a crime in most people’s opinion. To face the public labeling of “rapist” and constant taunts and threats that he does for what would seem to be consensual touching in a bar (based on HER statement)… that is why the fans support him.

Okay, so she didnt say no, or try to get away, so his alleged penetration is fine? **** dude i sincerely hope you dont have daughters