Retirement Targets

[CascadeClone]

Retirement age should NOT be raised. It is 67 now. Asking people to give up 36 monthly SS checks because the wealthiest amongst us refuse to pay SS tax on ALL their wages like the rest of us do is unacceptable. What kind of people are that freaking selfish?

Let me flip that argument on its head-

EVERYONE can save enough in 40 years of work to self-fund their own retirement. What kind of people are freaking selfish enough to not save their money and then expect others to cover them?

Now, please understand I am not really arguing that literally. But there has to be some kind of balance so you don't end up incentivizing not saving and not working. The hard part I suppose, is everyone's take on where that balance is is different based on their own experiences and beliefs...

 

[TitanClone]

I've always dreamed of having a pool, so probably not.

Would you consider outside of the US? Portugal has a pretty enticing retirement program https://us.iasservices.org.uk/pt/residence/d7-visa/

 

[dmclone]

Would you consider outside of the US? Portugal has a pretty enticing retirement program https://us.iasservices.org.uk/pt/residence/d7-visa/

It seems to becoming more of an option. It's tough because I want to live in a place that makes sense at 60 but also 75. Based on our vacations, I could see myself living somewhere in central America when we're 60, but I can't see us living there as we get older. Europe/Portugal is probably too long of trek once we reach that age. I leave for Belgium next week and I'm already dreading the flight.

 

[CascadeClone]

Not how it is usually sold to the masses by politicians. Why can't I buy my old age insurance somewhere else then? Let me opt out of the government's old age insurance and let me buy my own.

And why is it just for the genetically lucky?

I think the "how its sold" is a fundamental problem, at least in how people look at what SSI should be.

What it really is, is a tax to pay for retirement for elderly people - welfare, frankly. But since everyone collects, they bill it as "retirement plan" (which is popular) instead of a welfare tax (which is unpopular).


I do appreciate how everyone in this discussion (which can get super partisan and caved in a heartbeat) has been quite civil, even when talking about values type issues and not just the economics.

 

[KnappShack]

Not how it is usually sold to the masses by politicians. Why can't I buy my old age insurance somewhere else then? Let me opt out of the government's old age insurance and let me buy my own.

And why is it just for the genetically lucky?

Even if I could just invest my contributions while leaving the employer contributions alone.

I say this and then think about how many don't have any retirement savings built up and rely on the government handle it.

I sold 30% car loans. I know first hand how bad people are with finances, but it would've been phenomenal for me.

 

[BCClone]

Even if I could just invest my contributions while leaving the employer contributions alone.

I say this and then think about how many don't have any retirement savings built up and rely on the government handle it.

I sold 30% car loans. I know first hand how bad people are with finances, but it would've been phenomenal for me.

Where they messed up at the beginning. Should have had the half that comes out of the paycheck go private account and employer half go to the government. It would help with generational wealth also. Most don’t think of the employer half since it doesn’t come directly out of their check.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

When it was started the life expectancy was 63 years old. What it was started for and what it is now are two different things.

Investing your contributions, with some guardrails, would be awesome. Unfortunately, that would never pass thru Congress.

 

[yowza]

I think the "how its sold" is a fundamental problem, at least in how people look at what SSI should be.

What it really is, is a tax to pay for retirement for elderly people - welfare, frankly. But since everyone collects, they bill it as "retirement plan" (which is popular) instead of a welfare tax (which is unpopular).


I do appreciate how everyone in this discussion (which can get super partisan and caved in a heartbeat) has been quite civil, even when talking about values type issues and not just the economics.

Agreed. Hopefully the politicians can remain the same when the time comes to make changes. If they want to yell, do it behind closed doors but be united in front of the cameras and in public.

 

[yowza]

Even if I could just invest my contributions while leaving the employer contributions alone.

I say this and then think about how many don't have any retirement savings built up and rely on the government handle it.

I sold 30% car loans. I know first hand how bad people are with finances, but it would've been phenomenal for me.

30% ....... ouch.

Pretty soon we will have auto loans with 10 year terms.

 

[KnappShack]

30% ....... ouch.

Pretty soon we will have auto loans with 10 year terms.

Wife: "Wow! 30% is a LOT"

Husband: "It's not EVERY month"

He got a sweet truck.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

This thread made me look at my OASDI line on the paystub … Im now sad.

 

[yowza]

Wife: "Wow! 30% is a LOT"

Husband: "It's not EVERY month"

He got a sweet truck.

Sounds like my sister-in-law and her husband. Funny part was when my wife (her sister) and her were going somewhere recently. she was complaining to my wife about how she just doesn't understand how they never have any money to spend.

 

[yowza]

This thread made me look at my OASDI line on the paystub … Im now sad.

Log into Social Security and see what you and your employers have contributed over your working life. I know, I know it is insurance premiums, but man I could have generated a nice pot if I had been able to invest those on my own.

 

[KnappShack]

Log into Social Security and see what you and your employers have contributed over your working life. I know, I know it is insurance premiums, but man I could have generated a nice pot if I had been able to invest those on my own.

Also a good place to get the social security estimate. We know the rules could change, but at least it gives an idea.

 

[qwerty]

Read a slogan in a finance book yesterday.

Rich people stay rich by pretending to be poor.
Poor people stay poor by pretending to be rich.

 

[Stormin]

I find it interesting when people talk about greed. Isn't it greedy for me to ask someone else that makes more than me pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes? I'm middle class, but I'm sure there are people who make less and consider me to be rich and think I should pay more. Is it greedy for a parent to leave their middle income children money when there are poor living on the street? I think everyone is greedy.

Why should those who make more avoid paying the SS tax on ALL their earned income? Those making more should not be paying a lower percentage. And the employer pays half the SS tax.

 

[Stormin]

Log into Social Security and see what you and your employers have contributed over your working life. I know, I know it is insurance premiums, but man I could have generated a nice pot if I had been able to invest those on my own.

Do those returns on stocks include a COLA to account for inflation? SS has a COLA.

 

[BCClone]

Read a slogan in a finance book yesterday.

Rich people stay rich by pretending to be poor.
Poor people stay poor by pretending to be rich.

My son was just talking to me about his friends/classmates. Many of them get an allowance and/or work. My son has a summer job but doesn’t get an allowance. He mentioned how some of the allowance/workers were talking about how they make so much money and they have X amount in their checking account.

He mentioned that most of them spend about everything they make on their car/gas money etc. Up until about a month ago my son drove one of the biggest beaters (his older brother bought his own vehicle a little bit ago so the youngest got what I had bought him for a college car) but knew he had about 3x what the other kids had in investments/savings.

He was extremely giddy with his upgrade in vehicle even though he is now about average. I’ve taught them to be happy with small improvements/upgrades and not be in competition with others. A trait that his moms family has that I’ve slowly been breaking her of.

 

[dmclone]

Why should those who make more avoid paying the SS tax on ALL their earned income? Those making more should not be paying a lower percentage. And the employer pays half the SS tax.

I assume because the maximum benefit is capped. SS wasn't designed to be a welfare program. I don't have a problem with everyone paying in the same % on all of their income, it's something I actually like to see. However, all caps should then be removed.

 

[yowza]

Also a good place to get the social security estimate. We know the rules could change, but at least it gives an idea.

Interesting to see income totals over the years also. I look way back at my early years just starting in my career and think damn, that doesn't seem like much now, but it was also 30 years ago.