Terry Allen

[MuskieCy]

Or legendary UNI coach.

Or former ISU assistant.

Or Chase’s dad.

I’m just surprised that plugged in, online ISU fans wouldn’t know who Terry Allen is.

Or the fact that I guarded him when the Muskies played ICW in basketball?????

A thousand years ago?????

 

[theshadow]

Criner, not Walden was the downfall of ISU football.

The university administration in the 1980s was the downfall of ISU football.

 

[MeanDean]

This is like saying “Who’s Terry Allen?”

I thought, "Terrance Allen?" Played on one of Johnny Orr's earliest ISU teams.

There have been so many names coming through since I started following ISU sports in 1976 there's no way I would remember him. The Chase Allen connection explanation clarified who it was for me.

 

[Aclone]

I thought, "Terrance Allen?" Played on one of Johnny Orr's earliest ISU teams.

There have been so many names coming through since I started following ISU sports in 1976 there's no way I would remember him. The Chase Allen connection explanation clarified who it was for me.

Thanks! I remember Terrance Allen.

I suppose that I could have added that the reason to include CPR is that Matt Campbell’s early success was built on a framework of Rhoads recruits.

Not only was David Montgomery running behind a pair of CPR’s OL at tackle, several of Matt’s very first signing class initially committed to Paul, including Jamahl Johnson and Lawrence White.

Those guys were not unimportant to this team’s early foundations.

Paul should be included. Not saying “honored”, just included.

 

[CyclonesRock]

My guess is there were some FCS and even G5 coaches that would have taken the job, that had a much better resume than Walden. I honestly dont know, I wasnt nearly old enough or informed enough at that time to know who was available, candidates or what was offered etc. But really anyone would have been better than Walden, and probably could have found someone that wasnt such a crybaby.

I agree there were some challenges, but we were paying more than those levels. Our problem was the Walden hire was just what our administration was looking for. Pushing as much attention away from the athletic dept and especially FB. Hire a low rent loser, and disappear into the shadows.

Walden came into a mess, but his attitude, and his coaching ability just made it worse. The ISU mess and climate did not cause him to be a terrible coach, he was already that when he came. Which is what we were looking for.

But Walden's attitude and complaints that he lost because ISU, not because he just was a loser was the biggest issue for me. Dude blamed everyone but himself, but then didnt want to look at the fact he had the same ****** record at WSU before he came here. Instead of coming here and making the best of what he had, he just pissed and moaned that it wasnt his fault.

Criner Killed our FB program, Walden Buried it. At least Criner took responsibility for his actions.

But when you look at what Criner did and see coaches today basically bragging about doing it? Even wearing Tshirts bragging about it. People act like Criner did something absolutely horrible, when these days a recruiting violation gets a slap on the wrist, and paying players is celebrated. All at a time when places like Nebraska were doing all what they were doing.

At the time Orr was charged with violations too, but the FB progam had more and worse and took the brunt of the fall. Does anyone have even a drop of angst towards Orr for those?

Not to mention that we just went through the Gambling issues, and no one blamed anyone in the AD for it.

I guess my only point is people need to stop defending Walden and maybe stop hating on Criner quite so much. Would I bring either back to ISU for recognition? Not a chance. But they are very different people and have different legacies at ISU than coaches like Rhoads, Mac, etc.

Without Walden we would have never had these gems...

 

[cyco2000]

My guess is there were some FCS and even G5 coaches that would have taken the job, that had a much better resume than Walden. I honestly dont know, I wasnt nearly old enough or informed enough at that time to know who was available, candidates or what was offered etc. But really anyone would have been better than Walden, and probably could have found someone that wasnt such a crybaby.

I agree there were some challenges, but we were paying more than those levels. Our problem was the Walden hire was just what our administration was looking for. Pushing as much attention away from the athletic dept and especially FB. Hire a low rent loser, and disappear into the shadows.

Walden came into a mess, but his attitude, and his coaching ability just made it worse. The ISU mess and climate did not cause him to be a terrible coach, he was already that when he came. Which is what we were looking for.

But Walden's attitude and complaints that he lost because ISU, not because he just was a loser was the biggest issue for me. Dude blamed everyone but himself, but then didnt want to look at the fact he had the same ****** record at WSU before he came here. Instead of coming here and making the best of what he had, he just pissed and moaned that it wasnt his fault.

Criner Killed our FB program, Walden Buried it. At least Criner took responsibility for his actions.

But when you look at what Criner did and see coaches today basically bragging about doing it? Even wearing Tshirts bragging about it. People act like Criner did something absolutely horrible, when these days a recruiting violation gets a slap on the wrist, and paying players is celebrated. All at a time when places like Nebraska were doing all what they were doing.

At the time Orr was charged with violations too, but the FB progam had more and worse and took the brunt of the fall. Does anyone have even a drop of angst towards Orr for those?

Not to mention that we just went through the Gambling issues, and no one blamed anyone in the AD for it.

I guess my only point is people need to stop defending Walden and maybe stop hating on Criner quite so much. Would I bring either back to ISU for recognition? Not a chance. But they are very different people and have different legacies at ISU than coaches like Rhoads, Mac, etc.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment here. I don't harbor as much resentment for Walden as some and I probably don't harbor it for Criner, either. It comes down to the administration didn't think football was important and we've been fighting an uphill battle ever since, and it really has very little to do with the coaches of this era. I love your point here: Our problem was the Walden hire was just what our administration was looking for. Pushing as much attention away from the athletic dept and especially FB.

I'm very thankful we have Pollard, which has built tremendous political capital over the years, but that's for another thread.

Great discussion!

 

[CYCLNST8]

I was getting tail at 28 not on CF

I was doing both.

 

[Cyclad]

Pretty sure he is basically an official analyst. He walked to the bus with the coaches at Houston as well.

This is true - analyst

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

There wouldn't be a Matt Campbell at ISU right now if Rhoads hadn't come in and had some success after Mr. 5-19 left us. He set the bar higher for expectations and success here and ultimately didn't meet that bar at the end of his tenure. I don't get why some still harbor some resentment towards coach Rhoads. Yeah the ending of his tenure here was rough and he deserved to be shown the door after the KSU meltdown but he had a lot of momentum going before the initial conference realignment nearly blew up the Big 12. Don't tell me that didn't set us back in recruiting because it surely did until the conference finally stabilized. Had to been tough trying to convince a kid to come to ISU at that time when other coaches were surely telling them that ISU eventually may not be in a Power 5 conference and even we as fans were panicked at times that would happen.

CMC has been very open to welcoming coach Mac, his staff, and former players and while I have no first hand knowledge of his relationship with Coach Rhoads but it would not surprise me if we eventually see him back as enough time as past it would not seem awkward now. Having Chizik back would be the most awkward and unlikely thing to happen but I feel most of the fanbase still likes Rhoads and would not have an issue with it. Rhoads technically is still part of McCarney's staff too if you want to take another angle on the topic.

Rhoads had his limitations but he gave us what we needed at that time.

 

[VeloClone]

My guess is there were some FCS and even G5 coaches that would have taken the job, that had a much better resume than Walden. I honestly dont know, I wasnt nearly old enough or informed enough at that time to know who was available, candidates or what was offered etc. But really anyone would have been better than Walden, and probably could have found someone that wasnt such a crybaby.

I agree there were some challenges, but we were paying more than those levels. Our problem was the Walden hire was just what our administration was looking for. Pushing as much attention away from the athletic dept and especially FB. Hire a low rent loser, and disappear into the shadows.

Walden came into a mess, but his attitude, and his coaching ability just made it worse. The ISU mess and climate did not cause him to be a terrible coach, he was already that when he came. Which is what we were looking for.

But Walden's attitude and complaints that he lost because ISU, not because he just was a loser was the biggest issue for me. Dude blamed everyone but himself, but then didnt want to look at the fact he had the same ****** record at WSU before he came here. Instead of coming here and making the best of what he had, he just pissed and moaned that it wasnt his fault.

Criner Killed our FB program, Walden Buried it. At least Criner took responsibility for his actions.

But when you look at what Criner did and see coaches today basically bragging about doing it? Even wearing Tshirts bragging about it. People act like Criner did something absolutely horrible, when these days a recruiting violation gets a slap on the wrist, and paying players is celebrated. All at a time when places like Nebraska were doing all what they were doing.

At the time Orr was charged with violations too, but the FB progam had more and worse and took the brunt of the fall. Does anyone have even a drop of angst towards Orr for those?

Not to mention that we just went through the Gambling issues, and no one blamed anyone in the AD for it.

I guess my only point is people need to stop defending Walden and maybe stop hating on Criner quite so much. Would I bring either back to ISU for recognition? Not a chance. But they are very different people and have different legacies at ISU than coaches like Rhoads, Mac, etc.

Walden was hired because he was squeaky clean and that is what the administration thought the program needed. He had ridiculous sanctions including a significant loss of scholarships on a team that already was terribly talent poor, horrible facilities*, and a president that didn't give a rats ass about football or even a little success for the program. Athletics were a distraction to a University. Keep in mind that the loss of scholarships was exacerbated by the fact that you were limited on the number of new schollies you could give in a year so it affected the program even after the sanction expired.

*I was working at the ISC one summer and ran into D!ck Doyle who was the facilities guy for the AD at the stadium. He was scrounging for a sheet of plywood so they could fix the leaky roof in the old press box at the stadium. He couldn't even go out and buy a ******* sheet of plywood!

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I was getting tail at 28 not on CF

Look at this frothing alpha, ladies. Take your birth control.

 

[TheCaptain]

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment here. I don't harbor as much resentment for Walden as some and I probably don't harbor it for Criner, either. It comes down to the administration didn't think football was important and we've been fighting an uphill battle ever since, and it really has very little to do with the coaches of this era. I love your point here: Our problem was the Walden hire was just what our administration was looking for. Pushing as much attention away from the athletic dept and especially FB.

I'm very thankful we have Pollard, which has built tremendous political capital over the years, but that's for another thread.

Great discussion!

Spot on.

 

[cyputz]

Criner & Duncan did their share of damaging ISU football. Walden came into a no-win situation, over his head.

Edited: and little to no budget support.
(Thank you (1UNI2ISU)

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Criner & Duncan did their share of damaging ISU football. Walden came into a no-win situation, over his head.

I don't even think he was in over his head. The budget and sanctions would've crippled anyone.

 

[flycy]

I don't even think he was in over his head. The budget and sanctions would've crippled anyone.

It was actually pretty miraculous he won 6 games one year. He also gave us Troy Davis,

 

[uthaman]

The university administration in the 1980s was the downfall of ISU football.

100% this. Walden gave up after the administration suspended our best WR (Steve Lester) who was eligible by NCAA standards. Walden just didn't retire for another 5 or 6 years...

And Bill Synder wanted the job that Walden got. One of the great misses in Iowa State history.

 

[cyputz]

I don't even think he was in over his head. The budget and sanctions would've crippled anyone.

I agree with your statement, I should have added that wording.
Walden was good for what he was given.

 

[cyputz]

100% this. Walden gave up after the administration suspended our best WR (Steve Lester) who was eligible by NCAA standards. Walden just didn't retire for another 5 or 6 years...

And Bill Synder wanted the job that Walden got. One of the great misses in Iowa State history.

Admin did not want him, thinking he was just trying to get back to Iowa.
We had some real jackasses in admin at that time. Orr was a want by Orr, more than ISU.

 

[VeloClone]

100% this. Walden gave up after the administration suspended our best WR (Steve Lester) who was eligible by NCAA standards. Walden just didn't retire for another 5 or 6 years...

And Bill Synder wanted the job that Walden got. One of the great misses in Iowa State history.

I doubt that Snyder would have had the success at ISU that he had at KSU. The administration would have stood in his way just as much as they did for Walden.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I doubt that Snyder would have had the success at ISU that he had at KSU. The administration would have stood in his way just as much as they did for Walden.

That's just it. Bill Snyder was a FANTASTIC coach but he also had all the resources he asked for and the backing of the entire administration at K-State.

Turnarounds like that don't happen on the right hire alone.