ISU Bowl Projection

2speedy1

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Every time I have said the blue bloods would get in I have prefaced that saying unless they implode. Go back and check my man.

Yep Boise won a fiesta bowl, have I mentioned bowls once? No im talking about playoffs. Again you just aren’t reading what I’m actually saying you’re just jumping to conclusions
Where did I say you brought any of that up, I did to contradict your point. That's how debate works. You state a point, and then I state a point to contradict your point, with my reasons and data.

But again, you said a G5 would never win, when..... they have a game at the same level of the playoff. You cant go back in history and find a 12 team or above playoff, so you have to find as close as equivalent as possible. You also stated no G5 has or will beat any top team "at the end of the season" Which I would say would include Bowls, at least of past years especially.

Again, "unless they implode" is simply saying exactly what I am pointing out. The season will always matter because... there is no way to know if a "blue blood" or anyone believed to be a top team... will "implode" without actually playing the games.

You are basically saying you are right because there is no way to contradict what you are saying, because it hasnt happened yet, and trying to bring up anything as to show otherwise, "is not what you mentioned"

No one can say what is going to happen in a 12 team playoff, let alone any playoff larger than that, because it hasnt happened yet. So by saying none of the past games matter it just says no one can contradict you. So good for you, I bring up games from the past, that are as close to an equivalent available, because obviously there never has been a playoff of this size or bigger. You are right but literally there has only been 1 G5 team ever selected for the playoff in its history, so not like they have had many chances.

One would have to at least look at all the NY6 bowls for context in what a larger than 4 team playoff might look like, or look at rankings to figure out what a playoff of the selected number of teams would look like.

You argue like saying "Boise St will never beat anyone this year in the playoff".. Then if anyone tries to contradict you by saying well they have at this time or could beat someone because of A, B, or C..... You say "where did I say A, B, or C" And that no one can say anything else because... the games have obviously not happened yet so of course you are right in your own mind. And saying anything else is "not what you said" Or saying "NO G5 will ever win a playoff game, in a 24 team playoff" then no one can argue anything because literally No 24 team playoff has ever happened and according to you nothing is equivalent.

You may be right "you never mentioned" a bowl game, or a ranking, I did, in a way to show you something could or has happened, in as close to equivalent situation you describe as possible.

You literally said the season wont matter, in playoffs, larger than 12, and I believed you said really anything larger than 8, in your beliefs. I pointed out reasons that it will, not saying you mentioned any of those reasons, because obviously none of those are to your point, they are to mine. Then you said "unless a blue blood implodes" and I countered no matter what size playoff there is, you will never know if those teams "implode" unless you play the season. So you contradicted your own point saying so.
 

FriendlySpartan

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Where did I say you brought any of that up, I did to contradict your point. That's how debate works. You state a point, and then I state a point to contradict your point, with my reasons and data.

But again, you said a G5 would never win, when..... they have a game at the same level of the playoff. You cant go back in history and find a 12 team or above playoff, so you have to find as close as equivalent as possible. You also stated no G5 has or will beat any top team "at the end of the season" Which I would say would include Bowls, at least of past years especially.

Again, "unless they implode" is simply saying exactly what I am pointing out. The season will always matter because... there is no way to know if a "blue blood" or anyone believed to be a top team... will "implode" without actually playing the games.

You are basically saying you are right because there is no way to contradict what you are saying, because it hasnt happened yet, and trying to bring up anything as to show otherwise, "is not what you mentioned"

No one can say what is going to happen in a 12 team playoff, let alone any playoff larger than that, because it hasnt happened yet. So by saying none of the past games matter it just says no one can contradict you. So good for you, I bring up games from the past, that are as close to an equivalent available, because obviously there never has been a playoff of this size or bigger. You are right but literally there has only been 1 G5 team ever selected for the playoff in its history, so not like they have had many chances.

One would have to at least look at all the NY6 bowls for context in what a larger than 4 team playoff might look like, or look at rankings to figure out what a playoff of the selected number of teams would look like.

You argue like saying "Boise St will never beat anyone this year in the playoff".. Then if anyone tries to contradict you by saying well they have at this time or could beat someone because of A, B, or C..... You say "where did I say A, B, or C" And that no one can say anything else because... the games have obviously not happened yet so of course you are right in your own mind. And saying anything else is "not what you said" Or saying "NO G5 will ever win a playoff game, in a 24 team playoff" then no one can argue anything because literally No 24 team playoff has ever happened and according to you nothing is equivalent.

You may be right "you never mentioned" a bowl game, or a ranking, I did, in a way to show you something could or has happened, in as close to equivalent situation you describe as possible.

You literally said the season wont matter, in playoffs, larger than 12, and I believed you said really anything larger than 8, in your beliefs. I pointed out reasons that it will, not saying you mentioned any of those reasons, because obviously none of those are to your point, they are to mine. Then you said "unless a blue blood implodes" and I countered no matter what size playoff there is, you will never know if those teams "implode" unless you play the season. So you contradicted your own point saying so.
I think we’re coming at this from very different directions. I don’t agree that you can go back and count bowl games as playoff games in your example. I also agree you have to play the season, that’s exactly how you get the implodes comment. Thought that was self explanatory but that’s on me for not being clear.

You were brining up points that in my opinion didn’t contradict my opinion but were (in my view) completely off topic from what I was saying. I get you think it’s equivalent but I honestly don’t.

We can go ahead and revisit this after the playoffs. I still don’t like how many teams get in for the reasons I mentioned. I hear your point I just fundamentally disagree.

Always appreciate the back and forth though!
 
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SolarGarlic

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Haven’t seen it in the playoffs, that’s the point. No team is looking past their opponent in the playoff. The talent gap is too massive. I said P2 because ND doesn’t count and while I love the Big12 the talent discrepancy between a BYU and an OSU, Bama, etc is massive and that’s the caliber of team that’s competing in the playoff.
LOL we've never had a 12-team playoff
 

SolarGarlic

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Yeah, but the players opting out wasn't really a function of the creation of the playoff, or an expanded playoff, or an increase in number of bowls. It was a separate phenomenon that just happened at the same time as those other changes.

The case for an NFL prospect to sit out the 2001 Independence bowl was no different then versus now. For whatever reason it just wasn't done.
My post wasn't a comment on the playoff ruining bowls. It was just adding support to the notion that bowls are dead. The 12 team playoff is just hastening the process.
 
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SolarGarlic

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That’s not what I’m talking about. I said a G5 team can’t beat those high tier teams. Not comparing TCU to Michigan in a playoff but a G5 team against Michigan (in this example) in a playoff

Case in point, Michigans classes are usually in the 10-20 range. TCU is usually in the 20-40 range. That’s a gap but not a massive one especially with transfers.

Boise has a recruiting class that is almost always in the 70’s and is not getting good transfers. They just aren’t playing the same sport and would get abused on the lines in a playoff game against that elite talent.

Yeah teams like that can surprise people early in the season when they are being overlooked, upsets happen. But that will not happen in the playoffs against elite teams.

It can happen like I said to a BYU whose classes are in the 60’s and 70’s most years, same for Indiana. It’s why even on Indiana’s best year in school history they still struggled to beat an extremely mediocre/bad Michigan team
FFS, we've already seen Boise State play against Oregon. It doesn't take a miracle to beat a top college football team. You're trying to say that your "playoff focus" accounts for more than a game we've already seen play out on the field.
 

FriendlySpartan

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FFS, we've already seen Boise State play against Oregon. It doesn't take a miracle to beat a top college football team. You're trying to say that your "playoff focus" accounts for more than a game we've already seen play out on the field.
I’m trying to say that playing Boise early in the season as a G5 team isn’t going to have the focus that it would playing that same team in the playoffs. By that point Oregon has their **** figured out and isn’t looking past them because it’s a playoff game.

If Boise plays one of the regular top 5 teams with that talent it’s going to be a slaughter. The talent disparity is that great
 

SolarGarlic

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I’m trying to say that playing Boise early in the season as a G5 team isn’t going to have the focus that it would playing that same team in the playoffs. By that point Oregon has their **** figured out and isn’t looking past them because it’s a playoff game.

If Boise plays one of the regular top 5 teams with that talent it’s going to be a slaughter. The talent disparity is that great
You're using evidence made up in your head. I'm using evidence of an actual game played between Boise State and Oregon from two months ago. One holds more weight in my opinion. I'm not saying Boise is going to win the natty. I'm saying it's completely possible for a great G5 as a 12 seed to upset a 5 seed. That's what sports are all about.
 

RezClone

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Oh I understand, especially being an Iowa State fan. Just had this conversation with a buddy of mine and he was saying how a 10 win season is successful. I agree BUT I would want something to come with that 10 win season. You should be rewarded. But being rewarded with an Alamo bowl berth just doesn't do it for me. You said it yourself, bowls are worthless. Winning 9/10 games in a season is successful but if the rewards for doing that is a lowly Pop-Tart bowl where I can watch our players eat a human sized pop-tart after a win, consider me disappointed
100% agree. 10 would probably be enough in of itself, but the pop tarts bowl won't do anything for us now, regardless of the situation IMO.

Especially because a big draw for making one of the "better bowl" games used to be a chance to draw an opponent that would never play ISU otherwise that has some name recognition so you have a chance to maybe raise your profile a bit.

Like ND or Clemson, although we didn't get the job done. Kirk Ferentz rode the momentum from beating a disappointing LSU team in the Airline Miles Credit Card Perks bowl for like a decade for goodness sake.

Now those programs are guaranteed to have a laundry list of opt outs which negates the potential payoff. It's either that your guys sleepwalk into a buzzsaw against a fully erect G5 team with their hair on fire in a game you have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a perception standpoint.
 
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BigJCy

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ESPN guys:

Pop-Tarts Bowl
Camping World Stadium (Orlando, Florida)
3:30 p.m., ABC

Bonagura: Duke vs. Iowa State
Schlabach: Clemson vs. Iowa State
 
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Bestaluckcy

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K State game is huge for the bowl picture also. First things first.
 

State2015

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I want the Alamo.
I think any bowl is gonna snag up Colorado asap. Alamo prolly will go to them if I had to guess. I’ll be happy with any bowl against a P5 team if we don’t make the playoff, even Liberty as long as it’s not against Memphis or a G5 team
 

mj4cy

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So if ISU does win out, are we stuck at the 12?

Boise has what one good loss? Their SOS is 33, ISU's currently is 18 per Sagarin.
 

Cyclone06

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I think any bowl is gonna snag up Colorado asap. Alamo prolly will go to them if I had to guess. I’ll be happy with any bowl against a P5 team if we don’t make the playoff, even Liberty as long as it’s not against Memphis or a G5 team
They might snag up CU but they wont get Hunter or QB Sanders playing.
 

State2015

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So if ISU does win out, are we stuck at the 12?

Boise has what one good loss? Their SOS is 33, ISU's currently is 18 per Sagarin.
I feel like the winner of the B12 champ game will jump them due to an extra ranked win. Boise will play some slappy for their champ game, I like to think we’d pass them
 
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