My theory on why the Big 12 isn't getting respect from the playoff committee

[Clonefan94]

I think it’s silly to complain that a 3 loss SEC team is ranked a couple spots above ISU and ASU. Hate to break it to you, but the SEC is a tougher football conference.

By the same token, every year we see Big 12 basketball teams with more losses ranked above other P5 teams, seeded higher, more tournament spots, etc.

Depends what you mean by better. More TV eyeballs, sure. A couple of really good teams at the top, OK, I'll give you that too. Once you get past those though, it is not a tougher conference. And since they only have 8 conference games, don't come anywhere close to playing every team, it is not tougher. Oklahoma and Vanderbilt are so much better than anything in the Big 12? I'm not buying that ******** with a fake $100 bill. Quit buying into the hype. The SEC has names, but their schedules aren't some kind of unholy juggernaught you have to blast your way through.

Even with what I said, I have no issue with SEC teams with two looses being ranked above any Big 12 team. Once you get to three losses though, **** off with that. Three conference losses should be an immediate disqualifier when you only play 8 conference games. You can't even finish in the top 3 of your conference how do you get a shot at the NC?

 

[FerShizzle]

I’m being obtuse when you label everyone on the committee an elite snob that isn’t directly tied to the Big12?

Did you check their affiliations? It’s a lot of G5 and ACC. Why do you think they are higher than the Big12? I get being upset, I agree the Big12 teams are not being ranked fairly compared to the G5 and the ACC but your looking the wrong direction on who to blame

prove that they are not shills and stop being obtuse.

 

[Statefan10]

I don’t disagree with the “why”.

But I think we’re over valuing Big 12 talent.

We barely beat Iowa.

Winning in Kinnick is not easy, and Iowa is not some horrible team. Their offense overall isn't good, but KJ was phenomenal, their defense was still very good and they have damn near perfect special teams. Iowa played 4 Big 10 teams at home this year and won by an average of 23.75 points. We won by 3. Now, I will say those other opponents were not very good but the overall point stands.

 

[madguy30]

It's pretty simple... They make more money when Big 10 and SEC brand names are playing in the post-season opposed to the BYU's and Iowa State's of CFB. That's it.

I can't remember when this wasn't the case.

They just don't have to pretend to hide it now.

 

[CYdTracked]

I think it’s silly to complain that a 3 loss SEC team is ranked a couple spots above ISU and ASU. Hate to break it to you, but the SEC is a tougher football conference.

By the same token, every year we see Big 12 basketball teams with more losses ranked above other P5 teams, seeded higher, more tournament spots, etc.

I'm not going to debate that, the 3 loss SEC team is probably the better team. HOWEVER, my main issue with the way the playoff seeding is looking like it will play out is that the 2 loss Big 12 team that wins the conference championship could potentially be looking at the 12th seed. I think it's crap that teams that did not even make their conference championship game could get to host a 1st round CFP game while the Big 12 winner has to play out of the last seed or at the very least a road game. The Big 12 with an automatic qualifier at the very least should either get a bye or host a 1st round game. It's the premise that a team that failed to make their conference championship game regardless if they may be the better team or not gets rewarded with a better seed and a home game over a team that played an extra game than them and won their conference.

 

[12191987]

I can't remember when this wasn't the case.

They just don't have to pretend to hide it now.

In the days of yore “brand names” were spread across 4 (and even 5!) conferences.

I tend to agree with the consensus that Utah or Oklahoma State at 10-2 might get a bump of a spot or two above ISU/ASU/BYU, but it is pretty clear the mental model is of a “Power 2” arrangement.

The relative ranking of Miami against Alabama, Tennessee, and Ohio State makes that very clear.

 

[Statefan10]

It has been said but it's all laughable ******** lol. The committee has no criteria and they will never actually share the reason how and why they choose the way they do (we all know why). Anything thinking it isn't some way to get the top $$$ teams into the playoff are being absolutely delusional.

"How do you make the playoff?"
"Win your conference and you're in!"
"Sweet! So if you win your conference you get a bye."
"Well, technically speaking, but in the Big 12 you could get jumped by a G5 team that won theirs."

"So how many games do you need to win then?"
"Definitely 10 for sure, but if you win 10 it's still not 100% depending on how many 10 win teams there are. We'd then have to look at resumes."
"That makes sense. So if you go 9-3 and don't make your conference title, you're not getting an invite, right?"
"Wellllll, if you play in the SEC, your schedule is just so tough and therefore would have a great argument to get in."

"But if you only have 1 loss all year, make your conference title game, and then lose, surely you're still in right?"
"Maybe, we'll see. Depends on how bad you would lose."
"What is the number in which we can't lose by or more to ensure we make the playoff?"
"Don't know, we'll decide after the game."

THAT IS CRAZY! lol and the last hypothetical conversation that I created was actually based off an actual conversation that was had on national television by the commissioner of the CFP.

 

[Cyclonsin]

I'm not going to debate that, the 3 loss SEC team is probably the better team. HOWEVER, my main issue with the way the playoff seeding is looking like it will play out is that the 2 loss Big 12 team that wins the conference championship could potentially be looking at the 12th seed. I think it's crap that teams that did not even make their conference championship game could get to host a 1st round CFP game while the Big 12 winner has to play out of the last seed or at the very least a road game. The Big 12 with an automatic qualifier at the very least should either get a bye or host a 1st round game. It's the premise that a team that failed to make their conference championship game regardless if they may be the better team or not gets rewarded with a better seed and a home game over a team that played an extra game than them and won their conference.

Should the winner of the Summit League in MBB always be seeded higher than the second place SEC/XII/ACC teams? Because that's the same argument, albeit a bit more hyperbolic.

 

[Statefan10]

I'm not going to debate that, the 3 loss SEC team is probably the better team. HOWEVER, my main issue with the way the playoff seeding is looking like it will play out is that the 2 loss Big 12 team that wins the conference championship could potentially be looking at the 12th seed. I think it's crap that teams that did not even make their conference championship game could get to host a 1st round CFP game while the Big 12 winner has to play out of the last seed or at the very least a road game. The Big 12 with an automatic qualifier at the very least should either get a bye or host a 1st round game. It's the premise that a team that failed to make their conference championship game regardless if they may be the better team or not gets rewarded with a better seed and a home game over a team that played an extra game than them and won their conference.

1000%. Look at the NFL. Teams that win their division may have a worse record than a team from another division that gets 2nd or 3rd and still makes it in. They don't reseed based off of how many people will watch the game, who they believe to be better, or any other data point they want to cherry pick.

 

[CloneIce]

One 3 loss team? Fine, that's fair. Three 3 loss teams above every single Big 12 team that has 2 losses? Yeah, okay.

All the Big 12 teams have similar resumes. BYU has the best argument with a win over SMU. However they have last 2 of 3 to end the year, and did not make the conference championship.

Also of note - they are all ahead of 3 loss Missouri who does not have the quality of wins as the others.

 

[Nolaeer]

Josh Pate had a podcast on the SEC bias. He said sure, Bama lost to a "bad" OU. But he said that bad OU team has 57 4 and 5 star players, and a ton of guys who will play on Sunday.

He said with that kind of talent, if they dont turn it over and play well, they can beat anyone. He said no other league has the talent stockpiled like the SEC.

 

[Statefan10]

Should the winner of the Summit League in MBB always be seeded higher than the second place SEC/XII/ACC teams? Because that's the same argument, albeit a bit more hyperbolic.

It could always depend, but it's unlikely. However your argument has holes in it considering the NCAA Tournament has a MUCH BETTER process in determining who makes the tournament. Also, no one is playing at anyone's home arena. It's all played on neutral floors.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I'm not going to debate that, the 3 loss SEC team is probably the better team. HOWEVER, my main issue with the way the playoff seeding is looking like it will play out is that the 2 loss Big 12 team that wins the conference championship could potentially be looking at the 12th seed. I think it's crap that teams that did not even make their conference championship game could get to host a 1st round CFP game while the Big 12 winner has to play out of the last seed or at the very least a road game. The Big 12 with an automatic qualifier at the very least should either get a bye or host a 1st round game. It's the premise that a team that failed to make their conference championship game regardless if they may be the better team or not gets rewarded with a better seed and a home game over a team that played an extra game than them and won their conference.

I agree that the Big12 champ should get the bye, the G5 should always get the last “bye” spot and the lower seed because the play trash competition

 

[FriendlySpartan]

It could always depend, but it's unlikely. However your argument has holes in it considering the NCAA Tournament has a MUCH BETTER process in determining who makes the tournament. Also, no one is playing at anyone's home arena. It's all played on neutral floors.

To be fair the 4 bye teams are playing neutral floors as well but I agree with your point.

 

[CYdTracked]

Should the winner of the Summit League in MBB always be seeded higher than the second place SEC/XII/ACC teams? Because that's the same argument, albeit a bit more hyperbolic.

That is a valid argument but the NCAA MBB tournament is a whole different beast than Football playoff so it's not exactly comparing apples to apples here. You also get a much larger body of work to analyze over the course of a college BB season than you do football as there are a lot more non-conference games where there potentially are common opponents or head to head matchups to consider when you seed out a field of 68 vs 12. We're also talking about possible home field advantage here too for a game where MBB is played at a neutral site.

 

[12191987]

• Chris Ault: Former head coach and athletic director at the University of Nevada a person
• Chet Gladchuk: Athletics director at the U.S. Naval Academy Elitist Snob
• Jim Grobe: Former head coach at the Ohio University, Wake Forest and Baylor Big 12
• Warde Manuel: Chair, Athletics director at the University of Michigan Big 10
• Randall McDaniel: College and Pro Football Hall of Fame member and former All-American offensive lineman, Arizona State University Big 12
• Gary Pinkel: Former head coach at the University of Toledo and University of Missouri SEC
• Mack Rhoades: Athletics director at Baylor University Big 12
• Mike Riley: Former college head coach at Oregon State and Nebraska, as well as head coach in the NFL, CFL, WLAF, AAF and USFL Big 10
• David Sayler: Athletics director at the Miami University, OH a person
• Will Shields: College and Pro Football Hall of Fame member and former All-American offensive lineman, University of Nebraska Big 10
• Kelly Whiteside: Professor in Sports Media and Journalism, Montclair State University; longtime sportswriter, USA Today, Sports Illustrated and Newsday Elitist Snob
• Carla Williams: Athletics director at the University of Virginia Elitist Snob
• Hunter Yurachek: Athletics director at the University of Arkansas SEC

do you deny that the Big 10 and SEC are voting and ranking with each others interests in mind? they are by far the largest voting block in the group.

Uhh, what makes someone an “Elitist Snob”?

 

[Gonzo]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that the B1G and SEC will each get 4 teams in the CFP, regardless. The rankings will be worked and manipulated to make this happen. There's no way Bama is not in that final bracket.

 

[Statefan10]

All the Big 12 teams have similar resumes. BYU has the best argument with a win over SMU. However they have last 2 of 3 to end the year, and did not make the conference championship.

Also of note - they are all ahead of 3 loss Missouri who does not have the quality of wins as the others.

I'll argue BYU's case here, because they could have a more legitimate case of making the playoff than many teams.

BYU has a win @ #8 SMU (11-1) and has losses @ #16 Arizona State (10-2) by 5 and vs. Kansas (5-7) by 4. They did not make the title game because of how the tie breaker came out in the Big 12. If SMU and Arizona State win, they will have a win against the 3rd seed in the playoff, and a loss against the 12 seed.

Alabama has a win at home vs. #5 Georgia (10-2) and has losses @ #7 Tennessee (10-2) by 7, @ Vandy (6-6) by 5 and @ Oklahoma (6-6) by 21!!!!

So they would have the same amount of wins and losses against teams that are in the playoff (barring ASU winning), however Alabama then has one more loss and a bad loss at that by 3 scores. Not only that, but Alabama did not have to play another conference game because they play one less conference game than BYU. So two weeks ago, Bama got to host an FCS team and beat the breaks off of them instead of playing a team similar to the ones they've already lost to.

 

[Statefan10]

To be fair the 4 bye teams are playing neutral floors as well but I agree with your point.

Yeah I mean it as in you weren't losing out on getting a neutral court in CBB you're getting one regardless of the seed.

 

[RedDog]

Uhh, what makes someone an “Elitist Snob”?

I do happen to agree on Chet. Anyone named Chet has to be an elitist snob.