Starting 5 and rotation

[dafarmer]

The coaches have agreed to go with the starting lineup that the premium thread votes on. Tamin is starting at all 5 spots at the moment.

Can “Bruce” Hawley get another year? Love the Conrad Hawley chant.

 

[NENick]

-Buchanan, Jefferson, Tamin, and Milan will for sure start.

-The two guard is up for grabs. Probably Nelson, because of his athleticism and ability to attack and make plays, but big minutes for Heise off the bench.

-The staff loves the two freshman guards. I think we'll see them both early, but probably only one down the stretch in conference play. My guess would be Bateman because of his ability to shoot.

-Mulder will rotate in as the third big. Everyone will wonder why Pleta isn't getting more minutes. If you listen to the staff talk about Pleta now, they keep saying the word "potential" and talk about how he is adjusting to the speed and physicality of the game. Doesn't seem they think he is ready. I'm sure we'll see him in the early part of the season but probably not much in conference.

-I think we are going to see Jefferson facilitating a lot of the offense. Kinda of Jokic role where he is passing out of the post or from the top of the key. You'll have Milan and Bateman roaming the 3-point line, getting up shots, and Heise doing backdoor cuts. When JJ doesn't have the ball, Tamin and Nelson will be attacking the paint relentlessly for layups or finding the spot-up shooters on the perimeter. Occasional isos for Milan. The bigs will be there to catch lobs and putbacks.

If I were to type a post in this thread, this is it, word for word. So no need to type.
Thanks Peter!

 

[Cyclad]

I'll be shocked if Heise doesn't start. He very well might be a 20 to 25 minute a game starter, but unless Bateman, Toure, or Nelson are so good that any one of them need to be on the court 30+ minutes a game I'll be surprised if they supplant Heise as the starter. By the same token, if Heise shoots like he did from 3 the final third of last season he might play 30+ a game.

The upside if two out of Bateman, Torre, or Nelson are good enough to warrant double digit minutes per game is that we can limit Tamin's minutes some. He's always been around a 30 minutes per game guy and it would be nice to keep him there for his health/intensity.

I am a big Heise fan. But, he is not a ball handling guard. He will get lots of minutes, but I doubt he starts.

 

[VeloClone]

The coaches have agreed to go with the starting lineup that the premium thread votes on. Tamin is starting at all 5 spots at the moment.

And here I thought the days of the Fan Play of the Game were long gone, but apparently just in a cocoon changing into this...

 

[VeloClone]

best 5 should start but that doesn't happen anymore in this age of NIL. top 5 highest paid will start. which i assume is tamin, jefferson, milan, heise, and buchanan. Which might be our best 5 but I am bullish on the freshmen

What in the way that TJ handles all things in his program would ever in a million years give you that idea? Accountability, trust, hard work, daily habits... for coaches and players alike.

You are way off base.

 

[NWICY]

best 5 should start but that doesn't happen anymore in this age of NIL. top 5 highest paid will start. which i assume is tamin, jefferson, milan, heise, and buchanan. Which might be our best 5 but I am bullish on the freshmen

I still think TJ will play who he needs/wants vs. who is getting paid.

 

[Drew0311]

I view mulder as more of an edozie guy. Obv better than him but just saying I’d think pleta beats him out.

Honestly I don't think he will be better than Edozie. Just about the same.

 

[cyclones500]

My pondering is if Heise might begin season in starting 5, then embrace a 6th man role as another guard gets better established in primary rotation, or if it's flipped. He is 6th and Nelson / freshman get a shot as starters in early season, then perhaps it's adjusted later.

Maybe none of that will happen.

I'm with others who figure other 4 slots are set at least initially, but I suppose there could be a similar switching at 5-ish as a scenario I described for guard rotation.

 

[Kettes]

Not sure if he stumbled upon it or if it was purposeful, but Otz's strategy from last year of having a very talented 6th man caused a bit of match up chaos for opposing teams. I'm hoping that continues this year.

 

[CyberJJJ]

Why do people think Toure is likely to be a primary ball handler behind Tamin? Heise, Nelson, and Bateman all seem significantly more likely to be primary ball handlers when Tamin is off the court. I'm excited about Toure and think he might be able to crack the rotation this year, but have I missed something that makes people think he's an on ball player (particularly as a freshman)?

Not sure I agree with that, but recognize I haven't watched a single practice. I think Toure has the most on ball experience, but what did you see from Heise last year that showed you he could play the PG? I thought his skills made him more of an ability to flex on the wing and inside with toughness, that the quickness and handles to play PG. I have never seen Nelson play beyond film, but he looks more like the slasher from the wing than the PG--a guy that can put his head down and get to the rim. I am excited for Bateman but force myself to pump the brakes a bit. He talks the talk on defense, yet on offense he seems like the guy hunting his shot more than what we typically have at the PG.

 

[CyberJJJ]

My pondering is if Heise might begin season in starting 5, then embrace a 6th man role as another guard gets better established in primary rotation, or if it's flipped. He is 6th and Nelson / freshman get a shot as starters in early season, then perhaps it's adjusted later.

Maybe none of that will happen.

I'm with others who figure other 4 slots are set at least initially, but I suppose there could be a similar switching at 5-ish as a scenario I described for guard rotation.

Heise looks to me like a guy that even if he doesn't start the game, he will finish it on the court.

 

[NENick]

Not sure if he stumbled upon it or if it was purposeful, but Otz's strategy from last year of having a very talented 6th man caused a bit of match up chaos for opposing teams. I'm hoping that continues this year.

Proven winning concept. Have a selfless player who doesn't care if he starts, capable of sparking the team off the bench against the opponent's subs.
Usually on the court late in the game, when it matters.
I think Heise will embrace that role.

 

[cyclonehomer]

Need Batemon to have a solid role, want Toure to carve out some minutes from time to time, hope Pleta gets in, his mobility at his size and potential ball skills are hard to find for ISU.

I know I'll be disappointed in probably at least one case given the trend of a tighter rotation.

 

[tobya8]

My son went to the Georges Niang basketball camp and I was talking to one of the staff members and he said Toure and Bateman are giving Lipsey everything he can handle at practice! Both will play a lot! Toure is put together for a freshman!

 

[enisthemenace]

Lipsey, JJ, Milan and Buchanan will start. The 5th starter will be either Heise or Batemon, and the one who isn’t in the starting 5 will be the 6th man. It will be between Toure and Nelson as to who will back up Lipsey. Perfect world is Pleta backing up Buchanan.

 

[HFCS]

would this not be the dream lineup if newcomers are max upside by mid season?

PG - Lipsey
SG - Batemon
SF - Milan
PF - Jefferson
C - Pleta

 

[enisthemenace]

would this not be the dream lineup if newcomers are max upside by mid season?

PG - Lipsey
SG - Batemon
SF - Milan
PF - Jefferson
C - Pleta

Offensively, yes, but Buchanan is the better defensive player and is already used to playing at this level down low. In my opinion, our best option at the 5 is whoever plays best alongside JJ. Just need someone who can catch the damn ball, and then do something with it quickly. That was a struggle at times last season.

I’d prefer Heise in the 6 man role, but getting “starter minutes”.

Have to also consider the following season. I personally think you have to get Batemon and Toure as many minutes as possible this year.

 

[hoosman]

​	​	​	FPG​	% of fouls​
​	2024​	jeff​	0?​	​
​	​	jackson​	2.6​	​
​	​	rock​	0.1​	​
​	​	chat​	2.1​	​
team​	16.1714285714​	total​	4.8​	29%​
​	​	​	​	​
​	2023​	king​	0?​	​
​	​	jones​	2.32​	​
​	​	ward​	2.64​	​
team​	16.4864864865​	total​	5​	30%​
​	​	​	​	​
​	2022​	osun​	2.45​	​
​	​	jones​	2.70​	​
​	​	ward​	1.43​	​
team​	19.1818181818​	total​	6.6​	34%​

This is what bothers me. The 5 position is a black hole when it comes to foul calls. Buchanan should be fine, but he'll still average 2.5 fouls a game. He likely only gets 25 minutes. Pleta doesn't have defensive fundamentals, so he possibly gets 2.5 fouls a game in 10 minutes. Both guys are going to see foul calls with our high pressure defense and with offensive screens. That means Mulder will be needed for about 1 foul per game in 5 minutes. I am sure that King played the 5 in 23 and that Jefferson played the 5 last year. They are not included in the calculations. So rough expectation might be 6 fouls/game playing the 5 position. That would be about 1/3 of the team fouls for 1 out of the 5 positions. Playing Jefferson at the 5 at the end of the game is possible, but it would generate unwanted fouls for him otherwise. I think his "4" minutes are more valuable than his "5" minutes due to his excellent passing, jump shooting, and driving skills.

 

[GoodOleDays]

​	​	​	FPG​	% of fouls​
​	2024​	jeff​	0?​	​
​	​	jackson​	2.6​	​
​	​	rock​	0.1​	​
​	​	chat​	2.1​	​
team​	16.1714285714​	total​	4.8​	29%​
​	​	​	​	​
​	2023​	king​	0?​	​
​	​	jones​	2.32​	​
​	​	ward​	2.64​	​
team​	16.4864864865​	total​	5​	30%​
​	​	​	​	​
​	2022​	osun​	2.45​	​
​	​	jones​	2.70​	​
​	​	ward​	1.43​	​
team​	19.1818181818​	total​	6.6​	34%​

This is what bothers me. The 5 position is a black hole when it comes to foul calls. Buchanan should be fine, but he'll still average 2.5 fouls a game. He likely only gets 25 minutes. Pleta doesn't have defensive fundamentals, so he possibly gets 2.5 fouls a game in 10 minutes. Both guys are going to see foul calls with our high pressure defense and with offensive screens. That means Mulder will be needed for about 1 foul per game in 5 minutes. I am sure that King played the 5 in 23 and that Jefferson played the 5 last year. They are not included in the calculations. So rough expectation might be 6 fouls/game playing the 5 position. That would be about 1/3 of the team fouls for 1 out of the 5 positions. Playing Jefferson at the 5 at the end of the game is possible, but it would generate unwanted fouls for him otherwise. I think his "4" minutes are more valuable than his "5" minutes due to his excellent passing, jump shooting, and driving skills.

Dang this makes me appreciate the Mulder pick up a lot more.

And to enisthemenace's point, it sounds like Mulder catches everything and finishes efficiently, while also being athletic enough to guard with our pick and roll coverage. Cost/ego-efficient way to meet our exact needs there.

I think Otz's 8 man rotation comments have been specific to the teams in the years that he's said it. I think this team just works best going deeper than 8.

1 - Lipsey (Backup: Toure, per tobya8 and CyberJJJ)
2 - Batemon (Nelson, Heise) (Heise as 6 man to bring experience off the bench; split Toure/Batemon freshmen minutes)
3 - Milan (Heise)
4 - JJ (Pleta, Milan)
5 - Buchanan (Mulder, maybe Pleta, sometimes JJ)