***2022 PGA Tour Thread***

[Cyclonepride]

Nobody was watching yesterday because of the PGA's charitable contributions though.

Not a ton of people would watch or not watch based on that alone, but public perception, especially of ethics, matters in grand scheme and in the longer term. If LIV was a startup ran by some universally respected organization, I would have been more likely to watch out of sheer curiosity. As it stood, my distaste for the financial backing of LIV, along with my affection for the PGA and its history, more than overcame that curiosity.

 

[gocubs2118]

What happens when the guys ranked 10 to 50 in the OWGR go to LIV? Having the worlds top 10 on your tour is great, but if they’re going against scrubs like John Houston, I’m not sure that sustainable. And those mid tier guys are going g to be extremely difficult to keep with the money LIV is offering.

Again, this thing is just getting started

I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s a gimmick league that plays 8 times a year. If Pat Perez wants to go play it, have at it. I won’t miss him. Same with Bryson and Patrick Reed.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Nobody was watching yesterday because of the PGA's charitable contributions though.

Exactly. It's an entertainment product and at the end of the day, people are going to watch what's most entertaining regardless of how much money guys are making. People aren't going to watch Schwartzel and Duplesis over JT and Rory because one is a bigger payout.

 

[Tre4ISU]

What happens when the guys ranked 10 to 50 in the OWGR go to LIV? Having the worlds top 10 on your tour is great, but if they’re going against scrubs like John Houston, I’m not sure that sustainable. And those mid tier guys are going g to be extremely difficult to keep with the money LIV is offering.

Again, this thing is just getting started

The scrubs do not matter. It doesn't matter if it's John Houston or a guy will partial status is filling the field.

 

[isucy86]

What happens when the guys ranked 10 to 50 in the OWGR go to LIV? Having the worlds top 10 on your tour is great, but if they’re going against scrubs like John Houston, I’m not sure that sustainable. And those mid tier guys are going g to be extremely difficult to keep with the money LIV is offering.

Again, this thing is just getting started

The PGA Tour is deep. Other than Tiger's run, golf is seldom dominated by one player over an extended period. So there isn't a consistent Top 10 or 20 over a five year window. The key for the LIV Tour over the next 3-5 years will be adding young up & coming golfers. Same formula that keeps the PGA Tour vibrant.

Not sure what the LIV Tour was thinking by the huge rumored payments to Phil ($200M) or DJ ($125M). The money could have been much better spend on younger golfers. Sure those guys have name recognition, but it doesn't add credibility to your Tour when your name players aren't battling for the tournament title.

Charl earned his money by finishing first. But DJ (8), Oosty (10), Poulter (20), Sergio (22), Phil (33) and Na (33) have to be relevant on Sunday,

The other thing, it will be interesting to see fan support at the next LIV Tournament in Portland. The money is nice, but I doubt Phil, DJ & Sergio enjoyed playing in front of 100 fans.

I agree, this is just getting started. Will be curious to see who the LIV Tour brings on board this fall. The PGA Tour season ends with East Lake at the end of August. The LIV still has 5 of its 8 events in Sep/Oct.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I’ll believe it when I see it. It’s a gimmick league that plays 8 times a year. If Pat Perez wants to go play it, have at it. I won’t miss him. Same with Bryson and Patrick Reed.

I miss Pat Perez every day.

 

[Cyclonepride]

The PGA Tour is deep. Other than Tiger's run, golf is seldom dominated by one player over an extended period. So there isn't a consistent Top 10 or 20 over a five year window. The key for the LIV Tour over the next 3-5 years will be adding young up & coming golfers. Same formula that keeps the PGA Tour vibrant.

Not sure what the LIV Tour was thinking by the huge rumored payments to Phil ($200M) or DJ ($125M). The money could have been much better spend on younger golfers. Sure those guys have name recognition, but it doesn't add credibility to your Tour when your name players aren't battling for the tournament title.

Charl earned his money by finishing first. But DJ (8), Oosty (10), Poulter (20), Sergio (22), Phil (33) and Na (33) have to be relevant on Sunday,

The other thing, it will be interesting to see fan support at the next LIV Tournament in Portland. The money is nice, but I doubt Phil, DJ & Sergio enjoyed playing in front of 100 fans.

I agree, this is just getting started. Will be curious to see who the LIV Tour brings on board this fall. The PGA Tour season ends with East Lake at the end of August. The LIV still has 5 of its 8 events in Sep/Oct.

Yep. 9 first time winners this year (one of which is Scheffler which is hard to imagine a couple months later). A ton of really recognizable names that only really win once every few years.

 

[wheels686]

I'm really interested to see what the Masters will do and LIV. If they banned LIV players or the LIV tourney's didn't count toward world ranking points then it will really hurt the LIV league.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I'm really interested to see what the Masters will do and LIV. If they banned LIV players or the LIV tourney's didn't count toward world ranking points then it will really hurt the LIV league.

Masters will Probably invite MBS to be an honorary starter with Jack and Player then give him a green jacket.

 

[isucy86]

I'm really interested to see what the Masters will do and LIV. If they banned LIV players or the LIV tourney's didn't count toward world ranking points then it will really hurt the LIV league.

I have a tough time believing any of the major tournaments will exclude the LIV Tour players. They will remain consistent in their current criteria.

I would also be surprised if World Golf Rankings don't include LIV Events in their player rankings as long as the LIV Tour meets their current criteria. But winning (finishing top 10) in a LIV Event might hold the same weight as winning a Latin, Korean, etc. tour event.

 

[Clark]

I have a tough time believing any of the major tournaments will exclude the LIV Tour players. They will remain consistent in their current criteria.

I would also be surprised if World Golf Rankings don't include LIV Events in their player rankings as long as the LIV Tour meets their current criteria. But winning (finishing top 10) in a LIV Event might hold the same weight as winning a Latin, Korean, etc. tour event.

I doubt either Opens will exclude anyone, as that goes against their nature (they are "Opens" after all.)

The Masters and PGA on the other hand are invitationals and I could certainly see both organizations choosing to not invite players on the LIV tour but I'd be a little surprised if they didn't invite former winners (Phil at the Masters & PGA for example).

That said, for this next Masters I'd be a little nervous if I were Phil. It just seems like the people who run the Masters are itching to send a message but maybe that will calm down by next spring.

 

[Clonefan32]

I have a tough time believing any of the major tournaments will exclude the LIV Tour players. They will remain consistent in their current criteria.

I would also be surprised if World Golf Rankings don't include LIV Events in their player rankings as long as the LIV Tour meets their current criteria. But winning (finishing top 10) in a LIV Event might hold the same weight as winning a Latin, Korean, etc. tour event.

Sure seems to me there's smoke out there on the Masters having a ban. A few people have hinted at it on Twitter, and Phil was rocking their blacked out logo before his first round.

 

[isucy86]

Sure seems to me there's smoke out there on the Masters having a ban. A few people have hinted at it on Twitter, and Phil was rocking their blacked out logo before his first round.

It seems like the majors can't create special rules for the LIV Golf players. If former Masters Champions have historically been part of the field, the tournament will have to honor that precedent.

Same goes with World Golf rankings. If that organization gives points for LIV Events and World Golf rankings are part of their criteria for getting in the field, the Majors will have take LIV players.

 

[Clonefan32]

It seems like the majors can't create special rules for the LIV Golf players. If former Masters Champions have historically been part of the field, the tournament will have to honor that precedent.

Same goes with World Golf rankings. If that organization gives points for LIV Events and World Golf rankings are part of their criteria for getting in the field, the Majors will have take LIV players.

If you don't think the Masters can create their own special rules I'd encourage you to do a little more research on the Masters. They've been doing whatever the hell they want for decades now.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Sure seems to me there's smoke out there on the Masters having a ban. A few people have hinted at it on Twitter, and Phil was rocking their blacked out logo before his first round.

I think it's more likely Augusta has said they won't ban them but they want nothing to do with whatever they're doing at LIV. A lot of this will take care of itself with OWGR.

At the end of the day, LIV is going to be a soulless product that doesn't mean anything and it'll come down to which guys are willing to forgo anything of meaning in the game of golf to get the bag. The Euro Tour has a massive role to play, though, as they could go grab a bunch of highly rated players for a few events a year for their Tour who could certainly use them. Right now they are circling the drain and I don't know if the alliance with the PGA Tour is even close to enough to save them.

 

[isucy86]

If you don't think the Masters can create their own special rules I'd encourage you to do a little more research on the Masters. They've been doing whatever the hell they want for decades now.

They might do what they want, but they have a set of criteria who gets an invite. Past Masters Champs have a lifetime invite. Top 4/5 finishers from Prior-Year Majors have a 5 year window for auto invite.

The Masters has ZERO reason to exclude LIV golfers. LIV Golf is no threat to the Masters as it is a separate entity from the PGA Tour. I think the Masters main interest is having the best field and respecting its traditions.

You might have to be more specific on the "doing whatever they want" statement for context. To exclude a LIV Golfer who meets the Masters Invite criteria could open the Masters to litigation. I think Phil, DJ and Greg can afford the lawyer fees.

 

[Hoggins]

Sure seems to me there's smoke out there on the Masters having a ban. A few people have hinted at it on Twitter, and Phil was rocking their blacked out logo before his first round.

Masters is the last real card to be played in this thing. But do they really wanna ban like 7 of their last 13 champs? And what happens if LIV takes off and becomes the premium tour? Are they going to want to back track in 5 years when their fields are diminished?

 

[Clonefan32]

They might do what they want, but they have a set of criteria who gets an invite. Past Masters Champs have a lifetime invite. Top 4/5 finishers from Prior-Year Majors have a 5 year window for auto invite.

The Masters has ZERO reason to exclude LIV golfers. LIV Golf is no threat to the Masters as it is a separate entity from the PGA Tour. I think the Masters main interest is having the best field and respecting its traditions.

You might have to be more specific on the "doing whatever they want" statement for context. To exclude a LIV Golfer who meets the Masters Invite criteria could open the Masters to litigation. I think Phil, DJ and Greg can afford the lawyer fees.

Sue on what grounds? The Masters is an invite only golf tournament. They have criteria they follow, but they can always change their criteria or deviate from it. This is from a 2019 Golf Digest article:



Whether or not they do it is another question, but I can guarantee you worrying about getting sued is towards the bottom of the Master's list of concerns.

 

[isucy86]

Sue on what grounds? The Masters is an invite only golf tournament. They have criteria they follow, but they can always change their criteria or deviate from it. This is from a 2019 Golf Digest article:

View attachment 99666

Whether or not they do it is another question, but I can guarantee you worrying about getting sued is towards the bottom of the Master's list of concerns.

If you read that whole article it was mainly pushing for a 49 year old Ernie Els to play in the 2019 Masters Tournament and it cited one-off invitations the Masters Committee had made in the past to International Tour Players or winners of lesser PGA Tour events.

But as far as I know, the Masters has never told a prior Masters Champion (There are 5 on the LIV Tour) they cannot play. There were rumors Phil was asked to not play this spring- but the Masters folks have said that isn't true. It would go counter to “tradition unlike any other” and activities like the past Champions dinner.

Could the Masters Tournament change their rules? Sure, but excluding the prior 5 year's Major Champions would impact more than just LIV Tour golfers.

The threat of a lawsuit would concern the Masters Tournament. I doubt they want to waste millions of dollars on an issue that is the PGA's fight. There will be some buzz about the LIV Golfers playing this week's US Open before Thursday and a little bit during the Tournament- but then its a non issue for the other Majors.

 

[Clonefan32]

If you read that whole article it was mainly pushing for a 49 year old Ernie Els to play in the 2019 Masters Tournament and it cited one-off invitations the Masters Committee had made in the past to International Tour Players or winners of lesser PGA Tour events.

But as far as I know, the Masters has never told a prior Masters Champion (There are 5 on the LIV Tour) they cannot play. There were rumors Phil was asked to not play this spring- but the Masters folks have said that isn't true. It would go counter to “tradition unlike any other” and activities like the past Champions dinner.

Could the Masters Tournament change their rules? Sure, but excluding the prior 5 year's Major Champions would impact more than just LIV Tour golfers.

The threat of a lawsuit would concern the Masters Tournament. I doubt they want to waste millions of dollars on an issue that is the PGA's fight. There will be some buzz about the LIV Golfers playing this week's US Open before Thursday and a little bit during the Tournament- but then its a non issue for the other Majors.

So if Angel Cabrera gets out of jail tomorrow you think the Masters invites him?

Like I said, I have no idea if they will ban them. But suggesting they can't is where you lose me. It's an invite only tournament and they can change their criteria if they want.