I didn't read the thread but if you trade talent I think CFH wins big rather than the way Self has managed wins.
Better Coach - Self or Dreamy
- Thread starter BloodyBuddy
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Self obviously has better results. Self obviously is annoying and I hate him. So would I trade Hoiberg for Self? Not unless you got me Kansas players (which you wouldn't at Iowa State) and even then I'd be annoyed with our coach.
If Hoiberg was at an elite basketball school, his results would probably similar to Self's. If Hoiberg sticks around college basketball as long as Self, I'm guessing he could be as good.
If Hoiberg was at an elite basketball school, his results would probably similar to Self's. If Hoiberg sticks around college basketball as long as Self, I'm guessing he could be as good.
Why is it even arguable? He hasn't not won the conference since his first year. You probably have Calipari, Boeheim, Izzo, and Petino in his class but it isn't particularly close in results. The guys has never had a bad year since he took over a team that won 5 games the year before. I didn't know it today until I look but his resume is just astounding. He's up there in the best of all time IMO. The guy strikes a balance in recruiting and actual coaching that is very hard to find.
When it comes to coaching, how much is recruiting and how much is actual coaching?
I think CFH has shown that he has the potential to be a better coach than Self in some aspects, but not all. KU teams are almost always prepared, they rarely get beat mentally, and they have the ability to win at whatever tempo you want.
The recruiting part of coaching is sooooo important in college--you absolutely cannot win without talent. Fred is still coming along in that department, but is trending up quickly.
I think CFH has shown that he has the potential to be a better coach than Self in some aspects, but not all. KU teams are almost always prepared, they rarely get beat mentally, and they have the ability to win at whatever tempo you want.
The recruiting part of coaching is sooooo important in college--you absolutely cannot win without talent. Fred is still coming along in that department, but is trending up quickly.
Considering Self and Izzo are the two best coaches in America, no unfortunately Fred is not better at this point in time.
Agreed Fred is in an upward trajectory with bringing in more talent which in effect makes you look like a better coach. The one thing we have yet to see is a good defensive team from Fred, once he figures out how to best coach that this has a chance to be an elite program, part of that might just be that we dont have height and are trying to hide it so much so it comes right back around to the recruiting better talent (its extremely hard to recruit big men against the blue bloods).
Fred is truly the PERFECT fit for Iowa State! I would not trade him for anyone. Izzo, and others are great coaches, but in my opinion that does not make them a better fit for us. At the end of the day, that is all that matters to me.
He took Tulsa to the Elite 8.
He turned ORU from a crap team to a tournament team before that.
He brought Illinois out of the doldrums it was in and got them to the Elite 8 before leaving (that team the next year went to the Title game).
He took a team with 5 starters and a former walkon 6th man with no McD AA's in 2012 at KU to the national title game.
I like Hoiberg, but he's still learning coaching and recruiting. And whatever you want to say, recruiting is a very important part of being a collegiate coach. Hoiberg has the chops, and the savvy to be a terrific coach though and he's also young enough to give you guys at least 20 years, maybe even more. When he's been coaching for 20 years, compare his accomplishments to Self's then, right now its not fair to Fred.
Self is the best in the country. When NC and Kentucky have had huge turnover on their rosters they have struggled the past couple of years. Self has had years with just as much turnover and while some of the years haven't been the greatest, he's still winning conference titles and getting to the Sweet 16. He's leaning on two true freshman, has played a brutal schedule, and is heading into the second half of the season as the hottest team in the country.
However, I think it's tough to name 10 coaches in the country that are better than Fred. When you consider his lack of experience it's absolutely amazing.
Hoiberg is an excellent coach and is doing an excellent job at ISU. He is vested in the program and is getting things headed in the right direction. It's a little early in the process to really get a handle on his in-game strengths but ISU is certainly more competitive against the top teams in the conference now than they were prior to Hoiberg's arrival.
That said, Self won 300 games, nine conference titles and went to 2 Final Fours with a national title in his first ten years at Kansas. That's a pace that will put him in line to be the all time winningest coach in ncaa history if he chooses to stay at Kansas for a while. Hoiberg is a great coach at Iowa State and Self is a great coach at Kansas. I am sure both schools are happy with their situation and the two will hopefully have many legendary battles on the court for the next 20 years.
Self is a great coach, but it's easier to be a great coach when you have that kind of talent. He is adept at managing that talent though which is evident by their obvious improvement since the beginning of the season.
If Fred had the same level of talent every year I have no doubt that he would have similar records.
For Self, KU almost recruits itself. He hasn't messed that up for sure though.
Fred has the challenge of selling ISU and hopefully he can consistently have us competing for the Big12 title in the near future and get the kind of talent he deserves and needs to keep ISU up there with KU for the foreseeable future.
If Fred had the same level of talent every year I have no doubt that he would have similar records.
For Self, KU almost recruits itself. He hasn't messed that up for sure though.
Fred has the challenge of selling ISU and hopefully he can consistently have us competing for the Big12 title in the near future and get the kind of talent he deserves and needs to keep ISU up there with KU for the foreseeable future.
Part of being a great coach is being able to bring in great recruits. KU doesn't recruit itself. Does anyone remember that Alabama football SUCKED before Saban got there? Kids don't care about the history of a program. They care about coaching, systems, facilities, exposure and game day atmosphere.
Self is probably one of the best coaches in the country, if not THE best coach in the country.
and that's just coaching xo's. he's also a ridiculous recruiter.
Fred is doing a lot with less resources, but Self is on another level
and that's just coaching xo's. he's also a ridiculous recruiter.
Fred is doing a lot with less resources, but Self is on another level
Maybe career.. As a Kansas fan said on their board "This game was a chess match and Self again came out on top. However, Fred vs. Self is the only chess match Self has to use the talent card. Self is the better coach right now but just barely". I think Fred still makes young coach mistakes from time to time but he is right their with strategy, relative recruiting, and is the basketball version of Bill Snyder in his ability to get kids from different sometimes tough backgrounds to buy in to his system. I think*Fred has the potential to be better in a few years but Self is right now.
Yeah if we are talking who has "best coaching career " no doubt it is self. Hoiberg has a long way to go in that regard. But if asked the question a different way am curious if your answer is the same: If you had to hire one guy to coach your new basketball team for the next 10 years who would it be?
I would go Hoiberg because I think they are close in actual coaching ability right now and I think fred has more potential.
Self and it isn't even remotely close.
Offensively I'd say Fred is a little bit ahead of Self. Defensively Self is so far ahead of Fred it isn't funny.
I also think it's easier to win when you have Self's type of roster over ours. We rely on outscoring opponents...Self almost prides himself on having a presence in the middle who helps their guards out when they get beat.
