Big 12 Conference Realignment

[2speedy1]

So, if I were to understand correctly, the SEC viewership would have to exceed that of the ACC or B12. Right? I can only see ESPN wanting that if 'local advertising' is the cash cow. However, I believe in the playoffs the national advertising will be the cash cow. Who cares where they get the money from, just as long as they get it. Also, if there's too much B1G and SEC, how many fans/revenue will be lost at the end of their regular season due to the "why pay now when I can watch them in the playoffs" attitude. Of course, I'm an advocate for parity and I think favoritism is the natural enemy of that. Somewhere, some bean counters will be figuring this out season by season.

The issue is perception. When the media members pump up the value of SEC and B1G teams all year the perception is that they are better and more valuable. So when it comes to selecting teams they have built up bias from the start.

I mean look at the preseason rankings, as some have said the SEC is starting from 3rd base, when we havent even gotten up to bat.

The viewership is also going to exceed the B12 when they put the SEC and B1G in the preferred high value slots more often. Then they promote that the SEC game got a much higher viewership, not mentioning the average difference of a game in the best slot vs a game in the worst spot, regardless of the team.

Put Georgia on ESPN+ and it will have a lot lower viewership than when they are on ABC prime slot. But they will still promote how high the Viewership is for Georgia was vs ISU on ESPN+.

Its all about gaming the system and they do it well.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Yeah, they are not wrong every single year. There have been several years I think they picked the best four in a non-biased way where they weren't making up new rules on a weekly basis to transparently help specific teams.

However, when a reasonable person sees them change the rules specifically for Ohio State several years and in a polar opposite way of their previous criteria changes, it's wise to think it may happen again or even expect it.

You brought up the most stupid argument too btw on the covid thing. Keep going on that, do you know where you'll step in it? Please keep going, want to see if you can catch yourself. It has to do with who is in control of what. Testing your self awareness.

Feel free to elaborate on the Covid thing, again no idea where you’re going with it but feel free to let me know who’s in control of whatever you’re thinking. It was a global pandemic stands didn’t have fans in many areas many colleges were fully remote, it hard to draw any concussions from such an event and you certainly can’t take what happened for a once in a generation event and carry it over to normal years.

 

[HFCS]

The issue is perception. When the media members pump up the value of SEC and B1G teams all year the perception is that they are better and more valuable. So when it comes to selecting teams they have built up bias from the start.

I mean look at the preseason rankings, as some have said the SEC is starting from 3rd base, when we havent even gotten up to bat.

The viewership is also going to exceed the B12 when they put the SEC and B1G in the preferred high value slots more often. Then they promote that the SEC game got a much higher viewership, not mentioning the average difference of a game in the best slot vs a game in the worst spot, regardless of the team.

Put Georgia on ESPN+ and it will have a lot lower viewership than when they are on ABC prime slot. But they will still promote how high the Viewership is for Georgia was vs ISU on ESPN+.

Its all about gaming the system and they do it well.

SEC has had this thing in a PERFECT spot for years.

They're very consistently the best conference but they've maneuvered in a way where their teams don't all play the toughest schedules. I actually don't blame people for not seeing it, it works briliantly.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

The issue is perception. When the media members pump up the value of SEC and B1G teams all year the perception is that they are better and more valuable. So when it comes to selecting teams they have built up bias from the start.

I mean look at the preseason rankings, as some have said the SEC is starting from 3rd base, when we havent even gotten up to bat.

The viewership is also going to exceed the B12 when they put the SEC and B1G in the preferred high value slots more often. Then they promote that the SEC game got a much higher viewership, not mentioning the average difference of a game in the best slot vs a game in the worst spot, regardless of the team.

Put Georgia on ESPN+ and it will have a lot lower viewership than when they are on ABC prime slot. But they will still promote how high the Viewership is for Georgia was vs ISU on ESPN+.

Its all about gaming the system and they do it well.

I totally agree on the time slot and channel being a major issue. Also hate preseason rankings but sadly those are never going to change. To much debate and interaction with those to get rid of them even though they shouldn’t come out till mid season like the playoff rankings

 

[HFCS]

Feel free to elaborate on the Covid thing, again no idea where you’re going with it but feel free to let me know who’s in control of whatever you’re thinking. It was a global pandemic stands didn’t have fans in many areas many colleges were fully remote, it hard to draw any concussions from such an event and you certainly can’t take what happened for a once in a generation event and carry it over to normal years.

I'll give you a hint. The Big Ten homers typically defend half season Ohio State who got to dodge 5 opportunities to lose a game because Ohio State cannot control Big Ten decisions. That logic makes TCU's original screw job even worse but Big Ten homers cannot ever see why, it's a byproduct of the media sucking them off permanently.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I'll give you a hint. The Big Ten homers typically defend half season Ohio State who got to dodge 5 opportunities to lose a game because Ohio State cannot control Big Ten decisions. That logic makes TCU's original screw job even worse but Big Ten homers cannot ever see why, it's a byproduct of the media sucking them off permanently.

Yep I agree that year was stupid. It was also a covid year. You know the year that didn’t count to the point that everyone got an extra year of eligibility. OSU didn’t even play Michigan that year due to an outbreak in Ann Arbor. No one played in front of fans in some conferences. That’s such an outlier of a year it’s absolutely pointless to compare and would be thrown out in any data set or analysis as it frequently is.

 

[HFCS]

Yep I agree that year was stupid. It was also a covid year. You know the year that didn’t count to the point that everyone got an extra year of eligibility. OSU didn’t even play Michigan that year due to an outbreak in Ann Arbor. No one player in front of fans. That’s such an outlier of a year it’s ability pointless and would be thrown out in any data set or analysis as it frequently is.

But you get that TCU was in no more control of playing 12 games than Ohio State was of playing 6 right? That's part of why it was such a farce. I could go on, there are dozens and dozens of perfectly irrational choices the committee made that all worked against TCU and worked for Ohio State, often in exact opposite directions of what would be consistent.

They still had a choice to make in 2020 and they chose pure irrational favoritism against all of their previous criteria.

I don't think I'm that crazy for seeing those two years where they clearly rigged the criteria (in opposite direction of being consistent), and suspecting they may do it in future years. There's a reason the BCS used to have a computer component and the committee doesn't use it much, if at all.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

But you get that TCU was in no more control of playing 12 games than Ohio State was of playing 6 right? That's part of why it was such a farce. I could go on, there are dozens and dozens of perfectly irrational choices the committee made that all worked against TCU and worked for Ohio State, often in exact opposite directions of what would be consistent.

They still had a choice to make in 2020 and they chose pure irrational favoritism against all of their previous criteria.

I don't think I'm that crazy for seeing those two years where they clearly rigged the criteria (in opposite direction of being consistent), and suspecting they may do it in future years.

It was a Covid year. It doesn’t count and you can’t draw anything from it. No one does, it’s why everyone got an extra year of eligibility because the year was so far off what you can expect. I have zero problem with you saying TCU should have gotten in and I even agree but it’s also a covid year that you legit can’t extrapolate anything from.

 

[ClubCy]

But you get that TCU was in no more control of playing 12 games than Ohio State was of playing 6 right? That's part of why it was such a farce. I could go on, there are dozens and dozens of perfectly irrational choices the committee made that all worked against TCU and worked for Ohio State, often in exact opposite directions of what would be consistent.

They still had a choice to make in 2020 and they chose pure irrational favoritism against all of their previous criteria.

I don't think I'm that crazy for seeing those two years where they clearly rigged the criteria (in opposite direction of being consistent), and suspecting they may do it in future years.

FYI, your argument would be better if you used like Alabama getting a spot in 2017 when they didn’t even win their division.

 

[2speedy1]

Feel free to elaborate on the Covid thing, again no idea where you’re going with it but feel free to let me know who’s in control of whatever you’re thinking. It was a global pandemic stands didn’t have fans in many areas many colleges were fully remote, it hard to draw any concussions from such an event and you certainly can’t take what happened for a once in a generation event and carry it over to normal years.

You are glossing over the point that the majority of people know, that the B1G got special treatment that year. They completely went out of their way to come up with excuses for them. There was no reason the B1G was not able to put together a full or almost full season, like the SEC and B12. They came up with every excuse under the sun for the "pandemic" to not play the games.

It still amazes me that we were able to play all our games except 1(against the B1G), but the B1G was too scared to play half theirs, and made excuses for not playing/making up those games. But still insisted they should be part of the playoff. No, no you didnt want to play football, remember, it was too scary, dangerous, or whatever excuse they used every week, so no, no you dont qualify for the post season.

But no, they threw every metric out the window, every criteria, etc. just to appease the little 10 and their crybabies. No one will ever convince me that the b1g had any right to be in the playoff that year. Play the games if you want to be part of the conversation.

That year just proved how biased the system is, how a bunch of suits making the decisions have no integrity.

Using the "pandemic" as an excuse is pathetic and weak.

 

[HFCS]

It was a Covid year. It doesn’t count and you can’t draw anything from it. No one does, it’s why everyone got an extra year of eligibility because the year was so far off what you can expect. I have zero problem with you saying TCU should have gotten in and I even agree but it’s also a covid year that you legit can’t extrapolate anything from.

So in a regular year 12FBS/1FCS vs 12FBS games is some massive thing. But in covid year you just have to ignore 11FBS vs 6FBS. Nah.

 

[HFCS]

You are glossing over the point that the majority of people know, that the B1G got special treatment that year. They completely went out of their way to come up with excuses for them. There was no reason the B1G was not able to put together a full or almost full season, like the SEC and B12. They came up with every excuse under the sun for the "pandemic" to not play the games.

It still amazes me that we were able to play all our games except 1, but the B1G was too scared to play half theres, and made excuses for not playing/making up those games. But still insisted they should be part of the playoff. No, no you didnt want to play football, remember, it was too scary, dangerous, or whatever excuse they used every week, so no, no you dont qualify for the post season.

But no, they threw every metric out the window, every criteria, etc. just to appease the little 10 and their crybabies. No one will ever convince me that the b1g had any right to be in the playoff that year. Play the games if you want to be part of the conversation.

That year just proved how biased the system is, how a bunch of suits making the decisions have no integrity.

Using the "pandemic" as an excuse is pathetic and weak.

There is absolutely no way a Big 12 team would have got in that playoff at 6-0 if all the Big Ten teams had played 10 or 11 games. ZERO CHANCE. And it would have been the obvious right thing to do.

Our season and Fiesta bowl seemed pretty real to me.

Ohio State seemed really passionate about getting into the CFP even though it was "fake" and they only had 50% of a resume.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

You are glossing over the point that the majority of people know, that the B1G got special treatment that year. They completely went out of their way to come up with excuses for them. There was no reason the B1G was not able to put together a full or almost full season, like the SEC and B12. They came up with every excuse under the sun for the "pandemic" to not play the games.

It still amazes me that we were able to play all our games except 1(against the B1G), but the B1G was too scared to play half theirs, and made excuses for not playing/making up those games. But still insisted they should be part of the playoff. No, no you didnt want to play football, remember, it was too scary, dangerous, or whatever excuse they used every week, so no, no you dont qualify for the post season.

But no, they threw every metric out the window, every criteria, etc. just to appease the little 10 and their crybabies. No one will ever convince me that the b1g had any right to be in the playoff that year. Play the games if you want to be part of the conversation.

That year just proved how biased the system is, how a bunch of suits making the decisions have no integrity.

Using the "pandemic" as an excuse is pathetic and weak.

It’s not because it was a freeking global pandemic. Guess what, the Big12 is made up of a bunch of southern/red states. I’m not going to get political here but if you can’t look at the makeup of the big ten states/schools vs the Big12 and figure out why the conferences approached things different then were just not going to be able to get anywhere.

Totally agree that I have no problem holding OSU out that year but again it was a pandemic season that is a compete and total outlier. TCU got in 2 seasons ago when the same people on here were screaming about how it had zero chance of happening because of bias but the games do matter and thus TCU got in.

 

[MugNight]

Captain obvious here but if we had any team but UT or OU be great, Big 12's reputation would have been better. Baylor and Briles were scum for the rape stuff. They also let the Big 12 down with it. They were building a power, getting high level recruits. They spanked North Carolina in the bowl game by running the ball every play since all their QBs were hurt. Amazing coaching job.

TCU had a great early run in the Big 12 and then Patterson inexplicably lost his mojo.

Good points. I think it’s important to note that the divisionless XII cannibalized itself with the round robin format. We love to joke about Iowa in the B1G West, but it’s no secret that some teams in the SEC and B1G benefitted from weaker schedules in that time period

 

[CascadeClone]

SEC has had this thing in a PERFECT spot for years.

They're very consistently the best conference THAT HAS BAMA AND GEORGIA but they've maneuvered in a way where their teams don't all play the toughest schedules. I actually don't blame people for not seeing it, it works briliantly.

FIFY

Take away those two teams, and compare the rest of the SEC with the Big12 over the past 10 years.

"It's the same picture"

 

[ClubCy]

FIFY

Take away those two teams, and compare the rest of the SEC with the Big12 over the past 10 years.

"It's the same picture"

In the past 20 years they have more individual teams with national championships than the Big 12 has appearances. What’re we doing here?

 

[jdoggivjc]

My favorite scenario would be for all of the other non-B1G/SEC teams to break off and form their own organization in all sports and go back to more regional matchups. Don’t schedule the B1G and SEC schools in anything. Let the B1G and SEC play each other for a 32 or 34 team title.

See how long the have-nots in the B1G/SEC want to stay in that arrangement. Water down their playoffs and all of the other sports and put as much pressure as possible on the 8 or 10 power programs that drive everything. I think we would see them ask to go back to the historical conference arrangement with more even TV revenue share.

Remind me how well that worked for Div I-AA (hint: it didn't - Re: the dozens of teams that jumped from Div I-AA to I-A and then from FCS to FBS over the decades since DI split that way).

 

[2speedy1]

It’s not because it was a freeking global pandemic. Guess what, the Big12 is made up of a bunch of southern/red states. I’m not going to get political here but if you can’t look at the makeup of the big ten states/schools vs the Big12 and figure out why the conferences approached things different then were just not going to be able to get anywhere.

Totally agree that I have no problem holding OSU out that year but again it was a pandemic season that is a compete and total outlier. TCU got in 2 seasons ago when the same people on here were screaming about how it had zero chance of happening because of bias but the games do matter and thus TCU got in.

It was an outlier for the B1G maybe. The rest of us, not so much. The "global pandemic" didnt effect our lives as much as some wanted it to. The only time it did is when we let others control us and our decisions.

You might be fine with holding out OSU, that year, but the thing is, it still happened. They still got special treatment. You can deny it happened and say you are fine with ignoring it, but all that does is prove you want to ignore the obvious bias and special treatment. It is really convenient that you just want to ignore that.

Comparing OSUs special treatment to TCU in 23 where they obviously earned their way in with only 1 loss, but also ignoring the season where both TCU and Baylor were left out is rich. It just shows how biased you are, and its cute that you are willing to ignore the single most obvious season and playoff that completely shows the special treatment the B1G gets.

**** the Big Ten. Tired of the bias and their holier than thou attitudes and treatement.

 

[2speedy1]

Remind me how well that worked for Div I-AA (hint: it didn't - Re: the dozens of teams that jumped from Div I-AA to I-A and then from FCS to FBS over the decades since DI split that way).

What really needs to happen is we need to start forcing the B1G and the SEC to pay us to play them. They make double what we do, so they should pay us.

Just like we pay the G5 and FCS to play us.

If everyone outside those 2 conferences forced this they would have no other choice.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

FIFY

Take away those two teams, and compare the rest of the SEC with the Big12 over the past 10 years.

"It's the same picture"

They’d still have LSU (national champion) and Auburn (national champion participant in 2014 and national champion in 2011). They also had Florida in the late 2000s too.