What a disappointing season looks like in reality...
https://cyclones.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2020-21
https://cyclones.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2020-21
Disappointing season
- Thread starter alexssdean12
- Start date
And based on Blum's comments, Jefferson and Milan have already gotten huge offers to transfer. If one or god forbid both leave, its going to be a looooong offseason. Impactful guards aren't usually cheap either... better hope there are more Curtis Jones out there.
This may have been done but if not then looking at the schedule and when we were, and weren't, at full strength is pretty revealing.
Momcilovic missed 7 games and we were 3-4
Jones missed 1 and we were 0-1
Gilbert missed 6 and we were 2-4
There was one overlapping game which was Houston where both Jones and Gilbert missed so in games we weren't at full strength we were 5-8.
It follows that in games where we were at full strength we were 20-2. And those two losses were to #4 in the nation Auburn by 2 points., (after leading by as much as 18) and then to #17 BYU where we lost in double overtime. I'm sure other teams have similar injury problems to some degree but seeing these stats I'm thinking we had to have had one of the most significant injury situations in the country.
And I'd really argue 20-1, Jackson was sick and barely played against BYU. He would have gobbled up some of those rebounds we missed.
I’m not going to pile on. I’m disappointed, but also in perspective a R32 exit is a good season for ISU historically.
One point on the lack of depth. To me, it’s not so much an NIL issue. It’s moreso a lack of development/recruiting misses from high school kids.
The last two classes we’ve had 1 contributor (Momcilovic) and 0 contribution from 7 other kids. That’s 7 wasted roster spots. And I’m convinced some of those players could have helped us.
Jelani Hamilton averaged 11 points and 3.5 RBs per game for Georgia State. Eli King averaged 8.3 points and 5.5 per game for North Dakota. They weren’t going to supplant our top 4 guards, but they would sure as hell have been better options than Kelderman.
I don’t know why they transferred. If it was for more playing time or we ran them off. But to me, we need to try and keep those kids for at least 2 years, both for development and depth. Since we likely can’t add depth from the portal due to costs.
That’s why I would have preferred Nojus over Kelderman for spot minutes. His ceiling is higher, it helps development, and would have helped retention.
One point on the lack of depth. To me, it’s not so much an NIL issue. It’s moreso a lack of development/recruiting misses from high school kids.
The last two classes we’ve had 1 contributor (Momcilovic) and 0 contribution from 7 other kids. That’s 7 wasted roster spots. And I’m convinced some of those players could have helped us.
Jelani Hamilton averaged 11 points and 3.5 RBs per game for Georgia State. Eli King averaged 8.3 points and 5.5 per game for North Dakota. They weren’t going to supplant our top 4 guards, but they would sure as hell have been better options than Kelderman.
I don’t know why they transferred. If it was for more playing time or we ran them off. But to me, we need to try and keep those kids for at least 2 years, both for development and depth. Since we likely can’t add depth from the portal due to costs.
That’s why I would have preferred Nojus over Kelderman for spot minutes. His ceiling is higher, it helps development, and would have helped retention.
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What would you say if your job was to procure money? Would you say, “we have everything we need. We’re good.”? Maybe that’s true, probably is, but it’s also pretty clear that P5 teams don’t often lose their best players. There’s more going on than just straight “going for the most money” in these calculations for players, but the job is to make sure that the fans believe it’s all about the money so the money keeps pouring in.
I think people just need to understand each season is different. Success or failure in one year doesn't correlate to success or failure the next year. And the success/failure of the team can fluctuate during the season
That's why I prefer to look at a big picture view. ISU has made 4 straight NCAA tournaments, 2 of which resulted in S16 exits, one R32 exit, and a R64 exit. That is 5 NCAA tournament wins in 4 seasons. The vast majority of P5 teams have not made 4 straight tournaments, do not have multiple S16 appearances, and do not have 5 ncaa tournament wins during that stretch.
Did this season have the potential to be a very special season? Yes, but early in the year. This team was just a different team starting in February when Milan was injured. They lost their mojo and they never were able to get it back. We can analyze to death why they couldn't play in March like they were in Nov-Jan, but it doesn't change the big picture: TJ has built a strong, sustainable program that can compete year in and year out. And frankly, that's really what we were hoping for when TJ first accepted the job
Not happy with getting boat raced by a mediocre SEC team, but I felt like the round of 16 was the ceiling for them with how they were playing later in the season. This is not the same team as the one that played in early January for a bunch of reasons so it's moot to pretend they were. I thought we could win last night if everyone did their part, but the performance did not come until it was too late. I golf, so I am familiar with this.
I'm hoping to get more fishing in over the next two months and if I don't catch anything I'm blaming the coaches.
This is spot-on. It's a great place to be to expect to make the tournament every season, and to know a second weekend is very much on the table. At the same time, the staff probably needs to reevaluate some things. They're not alone—look at Bill Self, saying his staff needs to basically scrap its entire portal evaluation process—so that's okay, I'm confident they'll reassess. It took Campbell ~six seasons to have recruiting + training + development add up to a roster that belonged on the field with the "big boys." I think some here want to argue it doesn't take other programs as long, but I think that's the uphill battle schools like ISU have to fight in the current era, not necessarily that they can't get comparable players or beat those teams in the regular season.
Even the best coaches can only do so much. From what we saw on the court, Watson can barely dribble with P4 players guarding him, and has taken three seasons to improve his jump shot. Should he have come in more as a defensive specialist, who knows. That wouldn't have changed the outcome of many games. I'm guessing Indrusaitis either wasn't up to snuff on the defensive end in practice, or didn't handle ball pressure well, which would've been elite back in summer '24 and right before the season, with Gilbert and Lipsey 100%. Rock was in the tough situation of competing against guys like four years older than him at a position that is primarily about physicality. With the "COVID year"s behind us, i.e., transfers who've played significant minutes for four or five seasons, I do hope he stays, as I imagine the program will put more of an emphasis on depth.
Jefferson said he "100%" plans to return, so people can R E L A X. "more Curtis Jones"? Have people forgotten he played at that vaunted blue blood (sarcasm) Buffalo, and averaged like 6/game? You're right, there aren't a lot of Curtis Joneses, because a lot of programs like Kansas State go spend their money on the hot commodity, with no more certainty that their pieces will fit than that a mid-major guy will develop into a big contributor. My point is this staff found and developed Jones—and Gilbert, and Heise, and Jefferson—and they can do it again.
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All true. TJ should develop a deeper bench every year. Play 9 guys. Maybe even 10. ISU looked exhausted and out of gas.
I'm just kind of banking on Jefferson being gone. I'd love for him to return, but between Blum mentioning the amount of money he's been offered, and Fran making a point to say "if he's back next year" when talking about him-- just seems like maybe the writing is on the wall there.
Milan would hurt. I can understand seeing what's out there but I hope there's some loyalty to TJ there, and I hope we can come up with a competitive amount to pay him.
at least i can cancel youtube tv and espn plus now
I think for me this is what I really haven't caught onto or learned in 40+ years of watching sports now. The evidence is staring me straight in the face but I alwasys fall into either the media hype or the "we were good last year and we have all these players back so we should be even better next year".
I'm finally starting to learn this isn't always how it works.
I'm trying not to draw too much from just this one game. Vegas liked us by 5 or so. We just played really, really poorly and they just played really, really well. If we played 10 times I bet we win 5 or 6 of them. It was the quintessential bad day to have a bad day.
Don’t know about drama. This year the only place drama comes up is here at CF. Never saw anything but great culture and connectedness on the court.
This place can be a real negative space. Considering that CF is supposed to be a place for all that love the Cyclones we all sure fight among ourselves a lot. This fan base has a rep that we may not deserve. Being supportive of our team goes beyond flooding Power and Light. It means having the backs of our players, who just happen to 18-22 year olds. I bugs the crap out of me to see what players can read on here.
Heck this goes for week to week, game to game.
One football game the line is firing off the ball, timing is perfect, etc. and the next week nothing goes right for whatever reason.
Basketball can be even weirder and then take into account scouting, realistic limitations, etc. and it's hard to win.
Jacktronic
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Ok. We start by making a list of ISU megadonors. And then SOMEONE from this board seduces and marries one of them. Then the money starts flowing.
