Is ISU better off going to a Pro-style offense?
- Thread starter Win5002
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This times 10 freakin billion... why don't we have a goal line set for when we ONLY NEED 1YARD?
Scheme is not the issue
Going pro-style isn't the answer. We need an o-line that can block the opponent. If anything, o-line execution is probably more critical in a pro-style offense. We need more variety of schemes and player ability. Execution is also lacking. Our line is a sieve against:the blitz, our WR don't block well. Heck when is the last time we ran a screen pass with any sucess? How often do we use designed rollouts to get the QB away from a rush?
We are finally seeing variety in our WR corp, but what about our RB's? Wembley, Smith, Johnson and Nealy- all scat backs. We could use a tailback with with size and speed. Lastly, what prohibits a team running the spread from running plays under center? In short yardage and goal line, I think it gets the back to the hole quicker.
Going pro-style isn't the answer. We need an o-line that can block the opponent. If anything, o-line execution is probably more critical in a pro-style offense. We need more variety of schemes and player ability. Execution is also lacking. Our line is a sieve against:the blitz, our WR don't block well. Heck when is the last time we ran a screen pass with any sucess? How often do we use designed rollouts to get the QB away from a rush?
We are finally seeing variety in our WR corp, but what about our RB's? Wembley, Smith, Johnson and Nealy- all scat backs. We could use a tailback with with size and speed. Lastly, what prohibits a team running the spread from running plays under center? In short yardage and goal line, I think it gets the back to the hole quicker.
Although I like the pro-style and despise the spread, you are correct here. Switching offensive schemes would be as effective as say... switching quarterbacks.
Honestly I don't think ISU needs a philosophy change on offense. Maybe a better set of assistants but I don't think the macro-level philosophy is flawed.
Look at Baylor 2009. We had a middling OL, injured/young QB's, and it STUNK... with Art freaking Briles calling plays.
I simply think ISU is in a young year roster wise and the group of Richardson/Rohach, Bundrage, your young OL, and Ecby will get better with time/development/experience.
The scheme is a good one based on the success it's had at Ohio State and Rice. Whether it's ideal for ISU depends on if you think it's easier to recruit speedy WR's and capable dual threat QB's to ISU or if you think you can pipeline tons of NFL tight ends to ISU. Either way you need quality OL and a zone blocking spread scheme gives you some leeway in terms of who you recruit (doesn't have to be all-NFL type, can be quicker and leaner) compared to a pro style.
It comes down more to who you can recruit than anything else.
Look at Baylor 2009. We had a middling OL, injured/young QB's, and it STUNK... with Art freaking Briles calling plays.
I simply think ISU is in a young year roster wise and the group of Richardson/Rohach, Bundrage, your young OL, and Ecby will get better with time/development/experience.
The scheme is a good one based on the success it's had at Ohio State and Rice. Whether it's ideal for ISU depends on if you think it's easier to recruit speedy WR's and capable dual threat QB's to ISU or if you think you can pipeline tons of NFL tight ends to ISU. Either way you need quality OL and a zone blocking spread scheme gives you some leeway in terms of who you recruit (doesn't have to be all-NFL type, can be quicker and leaner) compared to a pro style.
It comes down more to who you can recruit than anything else.
Good luck with than unless you think you can recruit dominant OL and blocking TE's.
Have you been watching the NFL this season? Most of the successful teams are using some form of a spread offense and letting their QB sling it around. The rules make it to easy to throw the ball, so the "NFL style offense" no longer is being used.
Still comes down being able to block, if you can't block it doesn't matter what skill players you have.
Still comes down being able to block, if you can't block it doesn't matter what skill players you have.
You do realize that we have had 4 linemen in the last 3 years that either have played in the NFL (KO, Hicks, Stephens) or likely will (Farniok). That excuse is overrated. Our offense has been bad for the last 5 years, and you can't blame that all on hurt linemen.
I buy that to an extent, but I still think the onus falls on the coaching. Watching Baylor, or even Texas Tech for that matter, it couldn't be more obvious that the primary edge was a schematic one. Sure, both teams had guys that can make some great plays. However, the majority of the yards came on wide open, pitch and catch. Guys aren't getting wide open on short dig routes, or quick slants because of their ability, it's because the offensive scheme is designed in a way that you can't cover everyone. Teams that effectively run the spread have a scheme that gets guys wide open in space. That's why your offense is good every year. It isn't nearly as much about the players as it is about the scheme. With that said, it certainly doesn't hurt anything to have guys with size and speed as well.
To an extent I agree, and to an extent I don't. Baylor was daring ISU to pass by playing aggressively against the run so "open space" would not be available. I think having 3-4 guys that can take the top off the defense and a QB that consistently hits deep passes and comebacks has a lot to do with it as well. That's not smack, it's just the way it is. Teams don't want to play Reese the way we played your guys technique wise due to his burners. No different than teams having to play Seneca Wallace differently than how they played Rosenfels or any other pocket passer due to his ability to burn you running it. Also having a strong and healthy OL to keep Bryce standing instead of scrambling matters too and ISU's issues on the OL are well discussed here.
I still haven't had a lot of time to make it through the game again but I felt like ISU's passing game let the Clones down when I left the stadium. We took away the run and the answer wasn't there for whatever reason.
Please don't interpret this as smack. I have a lot of respect for your program.
Everyone saying that a banged up O-Line is the issue needs to read this:
Oregon State football: Beavers offensive line starting to get healthy | OregonLive.com
The look at Oregon State (who runs pro-style by the way) and tell me we couldn't do that. That game Saturday against Cal was fun to watch...yes, I know Cal was 1-5 or whatever but still, they threw up 49 points against them. We couldn't even do that to Tulsa, our only win.
Oregon State football: Beavers offensive line starting to get healthy | OregonLive.com
The look at Oregon State (who runs pro-style by the way) and tell me we couldn't do that. That game Saturday against Cal was fun to watch...yes, I know Cal was 1-5 or whatever but still, they threw up 49 points against them. We couldn't even do that to Tulsa, our only win.
1- It's not just banged up. It's the fact that so many are young or are seniors with limited upside as well. Also OSU has a very good QB (who IIRC is healthy), a dynamite freak of a WR who has 1,000 yards already, and altogether has recruited better on offense. They are DEAD LAST in running the ball. The reason they work is that Mannion and Cooks are passing at an incredible rate. They are the exception, not the rule.
2- I heard the CF podcast basically breaking down that your OL is the product of the first 1-2 recruiting classes whiffing on a couple prospects. That adds up and once you get through it I think you will see a better product as guys start playing "on schedule" instead of being forced into early action.
3- OSU may technically be "pro style" but is essentially the same formations as ISU only under center and they don't run the QB. That alone isn't going to be an answer.
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What do you think a team located in Iowa that plays mostly southern teams would recruit better: 300 pound offensive linemen or guys with 4.4 speed?
Right now Bundrage, West, Ecby, etc. are better than your OL. You have two good receiving TE's who are not dominant blockers but can be effective.
I am not talking about what you can get "a lot of", I am asking do you think you can more easily get FIVE Kelechi Osemele's or if you think you can get 3+ WR's with 4.5 or better with good routes. It's a legitimate question with the inroads ISU has made in TX and FL as well as the rise of 7 on 7.
We don't even run our own formations correctly half the time, have a QB that can't run even if he wanted to (injury, etc) and don't utilize our RB core nearly enough. Tulsa and Texas - Sam didn't try to run much if at all because he knew he couldn't. Which forced him to just focus on passing, and he ended up having pretty good games both times. In case you haven't noticed, we have some pretty good weapons at WR and RB - we just have a crappy OC who won't use our best weapons.
Switching schemes - BY ITSELF - is not the answer. But it's certainly something to look at. Why not start installing it now instead of waiting for the offseason. Nothing to lose (except more games).
Exactly. No matter who we hire to do recruit, we are never going to be able to out speed the southern schools in the conference. If our formula for success is to try to out-Texas Texas, then the ceiling for our program is what we have seen the last few years. We will always be recruiting 8th, 9th, or 10th in the conference, and then we are going to try to line up and beat everyone else at there game. This is never going to be a formula that allows us to take the next step. Mess is a mess and there needs to be an overhaul to the offensive coaching staff, but the issue goes beyond coaching. The entire strategy is wrong.
We need to differentiate ourselves from what the rest of the league is doing. We have a laundry list of disadvantages that we can't do anything about, so the only way for us to get ahead is to do things differently. We need to be recruiting different types of players, and running a different type of scheme. When you look at other programs that have risen from the bottom of the heap, you see this repeated a lot. Northwestern has succeeded with a spread offense in a power football league, while Stanford did the opposite and started playing power football in a spread league. Schools like Georgia Tech and a couple of the service academies have overachieved running the option in a world where nobody does that at the college level anymore. Texas Tech went to the air raid before these high octane offenses were all over the league. Kansas State rides the juco train.
We are lining up against defenses geared to stopping the spread. They have small, fast defensive ends to chase down mobile QBs and scat backs. They have linebackers that look more like safeties who are needed to drop into coverage. They are game planning for a spread offense every week, and playing against one every day in practice. We should be building a team like a Wisconsin. 340+ road grater linemen, a physical tight end, and a straight ahead type power running back. We need a game manager, pocket passer QB. We should run these guys over, beat them up physically, and eat up some clock to keep their high flying offenses on the sideline. Shorten the game, win the field position battle, and do our defense some favors for a change.
We won't ever make it to the top half of this league consistently by picking up the recruiting leftovers of the big dogs and trying to out develop and out coach them. We need to be recruiting entirely different types of players to play an entirely different type of football.
full disclosure: I'm an Iowa fan
Also, your premise is flawed. You can't just get 3 semi fast wr's and call it a day. How is that working out for ISU right now? However, if you get 5 good offensive linemen? Then you could run whatever offense you wanted and still at least be competent even with less talented skill players.
Of the offensive positions under CPR, what position group do you think sends the most players to the NFL? As has been pointed out, ISU has actually been fairly successful in identifying offensive linemen who have at least got on a roster of an nfl team. They haven't been nearly as successful at any of the other offensive positions.
As for TE's, good blocking TE's are a dime a dozen. As are fullbacks. You can get them to walk-on pretty easily if they are going to be used. Slower white guys who weigh in the 240-260 range but are as tough as nails are not a rare commodity in Iowa.
