LOL...I love when EIU fans bring up our record when comparing the two teams, trying to make us look worse. In all reality, does that really help your argument, considering you can't beat us on a continual basis like you used to?. Yes, we may not have been able to win more than 7 games a year in that span, but I remember a 3-9 team a few years ago that beat the allmighty Hoks, all without scoring a touchdown.
ISU vs Iowa Position Debate
- Thread starter mitchforcy
- Start date
This type of 'analysis' has never made sense to me because the two defensive lines don't face each other, the two offensive lines don't face each other, the two secondaries don't face each other, etc etc etc.
Iowa has better personnel overall and it has a strong home field advantage. Analysis done. Iowa should win by two scores. But hopefully, it has an off day and ISU takes advantage to get the win.
Iowa has better personnel overall and it has a strong home field advantage. Analysis done. Iowa should win by two scores. But hopefully, it has an off day and ISU takes advantage to get the win.
I would agree except for running back going to ISU. I think that is at least a push. Robison is a very good player as are our two guys but to call him great is a stretch
Wrong. It might have been a push last year when the AxRob had no top end speed. This year he's clearly better than anyone that has seen the field for Iowa the last two years. Maybe Hampton can make it a push, but he needs to get a carry first. Iowa State had a very legitimate chance at 9 wins (or 8 b/c they would have played a decent team in a bowl game with an 8 win season) last year if Robinson had his speed.
Well stated for where both teams are right now. I think isu lends a solid hand in making it an off day and the Hawks win but by single digits. Looking forward to a good game.
I think the isu ARob could give the Hawks problems...I was not impressed with our LBs, so if he gets through the DL look out.
At the same time, the Hawk ARob was flat out running people over Saturday...which with Iowa's between the tackles style and a young isu DL could balance the scales.
I would say 5 out of the last 7 is a continual basis also that 3-9 team didn't beat a very good Iowa team, in fact that is only 1 of 3 teams KF didn't take to a bowl game and the other 2 were in his first 2 years so it was actually one of the worst teams KF has ever had.
College Football Power Rankings
Will this breakdown work? Sash is 9th while Sims isn't even in the top 25 of DBs.
No offense, but I and my bad-knees-holding-up-this-30-pound-overweight body could have ran over those EIU players.
Not saying he ain't good -- just EIU D line and LB weren't all that and a shake.
Agree 100%
At the same time if the Hawks can limit ARob to one carry of 63 yards and a 2 yard average on the rest of his carries like NIU did...I think isu is in trouble.
In fact the winner of this game could be the one with the more productive ARob!
I wasn't impressed by the lb paly until I rewatched the game. Nielsen played really well.
In this Sash/Sims debate, how often does the disruptive front 7 of Iowa, compared to the non-existant pressure ISU got last season get brought up? It is a lot easier to play CB/S when you have the 7 people in front of you making plays every down. A happy-footed QB is more likely to throw off-target than one that has 5 seconds to pick the most open target. Just saying.
Bottom line, if Sash were on ISU he would start at one S and Sims at the other.
If Sims were on Iowa he would start at one S and Sash would start at the other.
They are both too good to keep either off the field. That would be one hell of a defensive backfield.
Bottom line, if Sash were on ISU he would start at one S and Sims at the other.
If Sims were on Iowa he would start at one S and Sash would start at the other.
They are both too good to keep either off the field. That would be one hell of a defensive backfield.
I agree. We all know AA will be the deciding factor (TOs or not TOs, that is the question). But ARob needs to be far more productive against a far stronger D this week than he was last week if ISU wants to stand a chance.
Disagree. stanzi and Arnaud both had INT and compl% issues last year. stanzi has led some quality fourth quarter comebacks but he has had to because of his poor play in quarters 1-3. I was impressed with Stanzi against EIU. He looked more patient and didn't throw his normal pick but then again he didn't go downfield. It will be interesting to see if he is the same way against decent competition.
Arnaud looked to improve his accuracy but still has an issue reading the LBs across the middle of the field. He is as importan in the run game as he is in the passing game so that is something he has that stanzi doesn't.
Both QBs have something to prove.
QB: Push. Different systems, different styles of play. Nobody will ever expect Stanzi to do any serious rushing. Both make stupid mistakes at times, but both are the recognized leaders of their teams. However, I'm not sure about the Cyclones second string QB. How good is he? Vandenberg has gained valuable game experience, and should be able to take over if Stanzi were to go down.
RB: ISU. Alexander Robinson is statistically better (to whatever extent) than Adam Robinson. However, Iowa has the 1-2 punch of Hampton and Robinson. But until we play, we won't know how good or bad Hampton will end up being. If he is as good as he was his freshman year, then as a position, Iowa might jump ahead.
WR: Iowa. Let's face it...WRs are kind of a split in general, as QBs need good WRs to get open and help make plays, but WRs also need good QBs to make good throws. You already have your hands full with DJK and McNutt, but then you have Sandeman and Davis. After that you have Chaney Jr and Nordmann. A lot of potential targets, if Stanzi can stay upright.
OL: ISU. Just my opinion, but I think game experience is perhaps the most powerful weapon a player has. ISU's OL was able to push around Iowa's vaunted DL last season in what Clayborn and Company (and Norm) agreed was their worst performance of the year. Iowa's OL played well against EIU, but even against an FCS DL, they were still inconsistent. Granted, we were missing a couple players, but still. This will be their first real test of the year.
Also, while everyone makes mistakes, fumbling the center-QB exchange on the goal line cost Iowa 4-5 points (the backwards pass out of the endzone got us 2 points). You just can't make those kinds of mistakes when you're an already low scoring offense.
TE: Push. I don't know enough about Franklin vs Reisner to make the call between the two #1 TEs, but I do like Iowa's depth at the position. Herman played well on Saturday and is a definite plus to have out there. Highly touted recruit CJ Fiedorowowyournamesilongandhardtospellwicz is also available.
DL: Iowa. Last year, the DL struggled against ISU's OL...and they knew it. However, when comparing DLs to each other, Iowa gets the nod. Even if you take Clayborn out of the equation, the rest of the line is still very good. As for depth, I do know Daniels played well with Binns out.
LB: Iowa, but not a huge advantage. Iowa is replacing two very good LBs from last year in Angerer and Edds. As much as they were good in run support, their ability to take away passing lanes in the short, middle of the field were also important. Nielsen and Tarpinian are good, but again, I think experience counts for a lot here. Hunter brings game experience, and Nielsen and Tarp aren't freshman. They have years of practice and games to learn the system. But that's wholly different from being out there every defensive play.
DB: Push. As a group, I think Iowa's secondary was pretty good last year. Sash and Greenwood had great years at safety, but I'm not sure about our depth at the position. At CB, there is a bit more concern, as we lose a very good back in Spievey. Prater was good on the other side, but injuries could mean that we have two relative newcomers at the position. Micah Hyde did alright against EIU, but did get burned twice on the Panthers lone scoring drive. Bernstine and Castillo also may not fare against good receivers/good QBs.
K: Push. Mahoney, Murray and Mossbrucker have more in common than having a last names starting with the letter 'M'. All three can be frustratingly inconsistent at times. Mossbrucker may statistically be the better kicker of the three, but he also tried 10 fewer kicks in 2008 thank Mahoney did. Murray is injured, but there was concern earlier this offseason that in order to perhaps gain power and distance, Murray had taken to kicking more line drive kicks.
Finally, Iowa seems to have fixed it's short kick-off problems with walk-on (or at least I'm pretty sure he's a walk-on) Michael Meyer (really? Another M?). Not giving up field position up to the 30-40 is usually a good thing.
P: Iowa. Donahue is a very good punter, though he has had the occasional bad punt. But as for right now, what boosts him over ISUs 4 punters (well, Kuehl got the most recent start, but still), is experience. Kuehl had a terrible punt, but it was just one punt. He could be a god-send. But until we see more, Donahue gets the prize.
KOC/PC: Push. Because kickoffs and punts are only as useful as the coverage you deploy. Unless you're hoping to get touchbacks each time, allowing the return team to bring it back for good field position or even a TD defeats the whole purpose.
Both teams were pretty good on punt return coverage. If I'm correct in reading these stats, then Iowa State gave up ~2 yards per return and zero TDs, while Iowa allowed about 6 yards per return and zero TDs.
Both teams were even better on kickoff return coverage (both in the top 10 in the country with regard to average yards given up). ISU gave up 18.11 yards per return, while Iowa gave up 18.36 yards per return.
KOR/PR: Push. Again, neither team is extraordinary in the return game.
In punt returns, Iowa gained slightly more yards per game, on average, than ISU. They also had the blocked punt against PSU, and have a blocked punt this year against EIU. As far as I know, ISU did not have any TDs on PRs, or any blocks.
In kickoff returns, Iowa again outgains ISU on average return yards per game by only about a yard (~23 to ~22). Iowa did, however, have a key return for a TD against OSU.
Intangibles: Iowa, but might not actually mean anything, considering this series. The game is being played at Kinnick, where the Cyclones haven't won since 2002. Iowa's coaching staff as been with the team for a longer period of time and have their team and system set. With regard to depth, Iowa might have the slightest of advantages, with guys like Vandenberg ready with game experience. Stanzi makes his mistakes but also has that 4th quarter magic (whether it holds up is still up in the air).
Iowa State also has a few things going for them. First, they're not, by any definition of the word, a bad team. And even if they were, Iowa has a tendency to let 'bad teams' stay in games or even beat them.
Second, there's the underdog factor, especially after Clayborn's comment about Iowa being the only team in state.
Third is the schedule. It's an early game, and Iowa may not have found and worked out all the kinks after the EIU beatdown. Several players will also be facing baptism by fire...especially on the OL. Also, Iowa State gained a few extra days to recover and prepare for the Iowa game, thanks to the Thursday opener.
Finally, there's the fact that this is the goddamn Iowa-Iowa State game. ANYTHING can, and probably will happen.
2005: "Iowa State can't possibly beat Tate and the Ha- oh..."
2006: ISU was ahead through the mid-3rd, but then Iowa decided to put up 17 unanswered
2007: "NO WAY ISU can win this game by just kicking field goals..."
2008: Wasn't a pretty game for either team.
2009: Iowa wins at JT for the first time in a while, and has probably their best win margin all year.
2010: ????!
EDIT:
Stats pulled from http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/national/index.html
RB: ISU. Alexander Robinson is statistically better (to whatever extent) than Adam Robinson. However, Iowa has the 1-2 punch of Hampton and Robinson. But until we play, we won't know how good or bad Hampton will end up being. If he is as good as he was his freshman year, then as a position, Iowa might jump ahead.
WR: Iowa. Let's face it...WRs are kind of a split in general, as QBs need good WRs to get open and help make plays, but WRs also need good QBs to make good throws. You already have your hands full with DJK and McNutt, but then you have Sandeman and Davis. After that you have Chaney Jr and Nordmann. A lot of potential targets, if Stanzi can stay upright.
OL: ISU. Just my opinion, but I think game experience is perhaps the most powerful weapon a player has. ISU's OL was able to push around Iowa's vaunted DL last season in what Clayborn and Company (and Norm) agreed was their worst performance of the year. Iowa's OL played well against EIU, but even against an FCS DL, they were still inconsistent. Granted, we were missing a couple players, but still. This will be their first real test of the year.
Also, while everyone makes mistakes, fumbling the center-QB exchange on the goal line cost Iowa 4-5 points (the backwards pass out of the endzone got us 2 points). You just can't make those kinds of mistakes when you're an already low scoring offense.
TE: Push. I don't know enough about Franklin vs Reisner to make the call between the two #1 TEs, but I do like Iowa's depth at the position. Herman played well on Saturday and is a definite plus to have out there. Highly touted recruit CJ Fiedorowowyournamesilongandhardtospellwicz is also available.
DL: Iowa. Last year, the DL struggled against ISU's OL...and they knew it. However, when comparing DLs to each other, Iowa gets the nod. Even if you take Clayborn out of the equation, the rest of the line is still very good. As for depth, I do know Daniels played well with Binns out.
LB: Iowa, but not a huge advantage. Iowa is replacing two very good LBs from last year in Angerer and Edds. As much as they were good in run support, their ability to take away passing lanes in the short, middle of the field were also important. Nielsen and Tarpinian are good, but again, I think experience counts for a lot here. Hunter brings game experience, and Nielsen and Tarp aren't freshman. They have years of practice and games to learn the system. But that's wholly different from being out there every defensive play.
DB: Push. As a group, I think Iowa's secondary was pretty good last year. Sash and Greenwood had great years at safety, but I'm not sure about our depth at the position. At CB, there is a bit more concern, as we lose a very good back in Spievey. Prater was good on the other side, but injuries could mean that we have two relative newcomers at the position. Micah Hyde did alright against EIU, but did get burned twice on the Panthers lone scoring drive. Bernstine and Castillo also may not fare against good receivers/good QBs.
K: Push. Mahoney, Murray and Mossbrucker have more in common than having a last names starting with the letter 'M'. All three can be frustratingly inconsistent at times. Mossbrucker may statistically be the better kicker of the three, but he also tried 10 fewer kicks in 2008 thank Mahoney did. Murray is injured, but there was concern earlier this offseason that in order to perhaps gain power and distance, Murray had taken to kicking more line drive kicks.
Finally, Iowa seems to have fixed it's short kick-off problems with walk-on (or at least I'm pretty sure he's a walk-on) Michael Meyer (really? Another M?). Not giving up field position up to the 30-40 is usually a good thing.
P: Iowa. Donahue is a very good punter, though he has had the occasional bad punt. But as for right now, what boosts him over ISUs 4 punters (well, Kuehl got the most recent start, but still), is experience. Kuehl had a terrible punt, but it was just one punt. He could be a god-send. But until we see more, Donahue gets the prize.
KOC/PC: Push. Because kickoffs and punts are only as useful as the coverage you deploy. Unless you're hoping to get touchbacks each time, allowing the return team to bring it back for good field position or even a TD defeats the whole purpose.
Both teams were pretty good on punt return coverage. If I'm correct in reading these stats, then Iowa State gave up ~2 yards per return and zero TDs, while Iowa allowed about 6 yards per return and zero TDs.
Both teams were even better on kickoff return coverage (both in the top 10 in the country with regard to average yards given up). ISU gave up 18.11 yards per return, while Iowa gave up 18.36 yards per return.
KOR/PR: Push. Again, neither team is extraordinary in the return game.
In punt returns, Iowa gained slightly more yards per game, on average, than ISU. They also had the blocked punt against PSU, and have a blocked punt this year against EIU. As far as I know, ISU did not have any TDs on PRs, or any blocks.
In kickoff returns, Iowa again outgains ISU on average return yards per game by only about a yard (~23 to ~22). Iowa did, however, have a key return for a TD against OSU.
Intangibles: Iowa, but might not actually mean anything, considering this series. The game is being played at Kinnick, where the Cyclones haven't won since 2002. Iowa's coaching staff as been with the team for a longer period of time and have their team and system set. With regard to depth, Iowa might have the slightest of advantages, with guys like Vandenberg ready with game experience. Stanzi makes his mistakes but also has that 4th quarter magic (whether it holds up is still up in the air).
Iowa State also has a few things going for them. First, they're not, by any definition of the word, a bad team. And even if they were, Iowa has a tendency to let 'bad teams' stay in games or even beat them.
Second, there's the underdog factor, especially after Clayborn's comment about Iowa being the only team in state.
Third is the schedule. It's an early game, and Iowa may not have found and worked out all the kinks after the EIU beatdown. Several players will also be facing baptism by fire...especially on the OL. Also, Iowa State gained a few extra days to recover and prepare for the Iowa game, thanks to the Thursday opener.
Finally, there's the fact that this is the goddamn Iowa-Iowa State game. ANYTHING can, and probably will happen.
2005: "Iowa State can't possibly beat Tate and the Ha- oh..."
2006: ISU was ahead through the mid-3rd, but then Iowa decided to put up 17 unanswered
2007: "NO WAY ISU can win this game by just kicking field goals..."
2008: Wasn't a pretty game for either team.
2009: Iowa wins at JT for the first time in a while, and has probably their best win margin all year.
2010: ????!
EDIT:
Stats pulled from http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/national/index.html
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What do you suppose isu fans say Rhodes+ and Iowa fans say Ferentz+?
To stay with that logic, I say Ferentz and Company but I really do like what Rhodes is doing.
Well, to be fair, what sets the two staffs apart is coaching tenure with the school. Iowa State has gone through a couple coaching changes as of late. Iowa, on the other hand, has coaches who have been with the team for (in several cases) over a decade. I think the 'youngest' coach might be our WRs coach with 3 years experience at Iowa. These guys have a system down, and have funneled many very good players through the program. They have, in many cases, worked with the Iowa players since day 1 they stepped on campus.
An example of what experience with a single program can bring is, the 2003 vs 2010 Orange Bowls. One the one hand, we faced a very good USC squad in 2003, and perhaps an overrated GT squad last year. However, by the admission of the coaches and players, they weren't prepared for the 2003 trip at all. They were so caught up in the thrill of playing in the bowl, and being home (for several Iowa players, who were from Miami), that they were totally caught off guard on game day. Since then, Ferentz and his coaches have used that experience to get their guys better prepared and focused for big games.
http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/the-...s-focus-to-follow-hawkeyes-to-miami-this-time
This is not to say Rhoads et al aren't good coaches. They just haven't had all that much time with the team. Anybody know who the longest tenured coach on the team might be? I flipped through a couple bios, and they all had 1 year at Iowa State.
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I agree with all of the main points by the OP.. Except:
Stanzi over Arnaud easy, not just as a Hawk fan, he is way more clutch.
Iowa's special teams are so far out of ISU's league, it's not even close. The only area it is somewhat close is kicker.
Again, I agree with mainly everything else. Just my opinion.
Stanzi over Arnaud easy, not just as a Hawk fan, he is way more clutch.
Iowa's special teams are so far out of ISU's league, it's not even close. The only area it is somewhat close is kicker.
Again, I agree with mainly everything else. Just my opinion.
If my SS isn't tacking or covering then I guess I don't know what he is doing on the field.
He wasn't able to rack up interception stats. Sash has the opportunity to sit back and read the QB and receivers and make plays there. SIms makes tackles. Sims is a better player. The NFL draft next year will tell you that.
