ISU vs Iowa Position Debate

VeloClone

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Jan 19, 2010
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edr247 - a pretty fair and evenhanded assessment. Good job.

I never thought I would get the message about spreading around the rep when I tried to rep a Hawk...
 

Rhoadhoused

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QB: Push. Different systems, different styles of play. Nobody will ever expect Stanzi to do any serious rushing. Both make stupid mistakes at times, but both are the recognized leaders of their teams. However, I'm not sure about the Cyclones second string QB. How good is he? Vandenberg has gained valuable game experience, and should be able to take over if Stanzi were to go down.

RB: ISU. Alexander Robinson is statistically better (to whatever extent) than Adam Robinson. However, Iowa has the 1-2 punch of Hampton and Robinson. But until we play, we won't know how good or bad Hampton will end up being. If he is as good as he was his freshman year, then as a position, Iowa might jump ahead.

WR: Iowa. Let's face it...WRs are kind of a split in general, as QBs need good WRs to get open and help make plays, but WRs also need good QBs to make good throws. You already have your hands full with DJK and McNutt, but then you have Sandeman and Davis. After that you have Chaney Jr and Nordmann. A lot of potential targets, if Stanzi can stay upright.

OL: ISU. Just my opinion, but I think game experience is perhaps the most powerful weapon a player has. ISU's OL was able to push around Iowa's vaunted DL last season in what Clayborn and Company (and Norm) agreed was their worst performance of the year. Iowa's OL played well against EIU, but even against an FCS DL, they were still inconsistent. Granted, we were missing a couple players, but still. This will be their first real test of the year.

Also, while everyone makes mistakes, fumbling the center-QB exchange on the goal line cost Iowa 4-5 points (the backwards pass out of the endzone got us 2 points). You just can't make those kinds of mistakes when you're an already low scoring offense.

TE: Push. I don't know enough about Franklin vs Reisner to make the call between the two #1 TEs, but I do like Iowa's depth at the position. Herman played well on Saturday and is a definite plus to have out there. Highly touted recruit CJ Fiedorowowyournamesilongandhardtospellwicz is also available.

DL: Iowa. Last year, the DL struggled against ISU's OL...and they knew it. However, when comparing DLs to each other, Iowa gets the nod. Even if you take Clayborn out of the equation, the rest of the line is still very good. As for depth, I do know Daniels played well with Binns out.

LB: Iowa, but not a huge advantage. Iowa is replacing two very good LBs from last year in Angerer and Edds. As much as they were good in run support, their ability to take away passing lanes in the short, middle of the field were also important. Nielsen and Tarpinian are good, but again, I think experience counts for a lot here. Hunter brings game experience, and Nielsen and Tarp aren't freshman. They have years of practice and games to learn the system. But that's wholly different from being out there every defensive play.

DB: Push. As a group, I think Iowa's secondary was pretty good last year. Sash and Greenwood had great years at safety, but I'm not sure about our depth at the position. At CB, there is a bit more concern, as we lose a very good back in Spievey. Prater was good on the other side, but injuries could mean that we have two relative newcomers at the position. Micah Hyde did alright against EIU, but did get burned twice on the Panthers lone scoring drive. Bernstine and Castillo also may not fare against good receivers/good QBs.

K: Push. Mahoney, Murray and Mossbrucker have more in common than having a last names starting with the letter 'M'. All three can be frustratingly inconsistent at times. Mossbrucker may statistically be the better kicker of the three, but he also tried 10 fewer kicks in 2008 thank Mahoney did. Murray is injured, but there was concern earlier this offseason that in order to perhaps gain power and distance, Murray had taken to kicking more line drive kicks.

Finally, Iowa seems to have fixed it's short kick-off problems with walk-on (or at least I'm pretty sure he's a walk-on) Michael Meyer (really? Another M?). Not giving up field position up to the 30-40 is usually a good thing.

P: Iowa. Donahue is a very good punter, though he has had the occasional bad punt. But as for right now, what boosts him over ISUs 4 punters (well, Kuehl got the most recent start, but still), is experience. Kuehl had a terrible punt, but it was just one punt. He could be a god-send. But until we see more, Donahue gets the prize.

KOC/PC: Push. Because kickoffs and punts are only as useful as the coverage you deploy. Unless you're hoping to get touchbacks each time, allowing the return team to bring it back for good field position or even a TD defeats the whole purpose.

Both teams were pretty good on punt return coverage. If I'm correct in reading these stats, then Iowa State gave up ~2 yards per return and zero TDs, while Iowa allowed about 6 yards per return and zero TDs.

Both teams were even better on kickoff return coverage (both in the top 10 in the country with regard to average yards given up). ISU gave up 18.11 yards per return, while Iowa gave up 18.36 yards per return.

KOR/PR: Push. Again, neither team is extraordinary in the return game.

In punt returns, Iowa gained slightly more yards per game, on average, than ISU. They also had the blocked punt against PSU, and have a blocked punt this year against EIU. As far as I know, ISU did not have any TDs on PRs, or any blocks.

In kickoff returns, Iowa again outgains ISU on average return yards per game by only about a yard (~23 to ~22). Iowa did, however, have a key return for a TD against OSU.

Intangibles: Iowa, but might not actually mean anything, considering this series. The game is being played at Kinnick, where the Cyclones haven't won since 2002. Iowa's coaching staff as been with the team for a longer period of time and have their team and system set. With regard to depth, Iowa might have the slightest of advantages, with guys like Vandenberg ready with game experience. Stanzi makes his mistakes but also has that 4th quarter magic (whether it holds up is still up in the air).

Iowa State also has a few things going for them. First, they're not, by any definition of the word, a bad team. And even if they were, Iowa has a tendency to let 'bad teams' stay in games or even beat them.

Second, there's the underdog factor, especially after Clayborn's comment about Iowa being the only team in state.

Third is the schedule. It's an early game, and Iowa may not have found and worked out all the kinks after the EIU beatdown. Several players will also be facing baptism by fire...especially on the OL. Also, Iowa State gained a few extra days to recover and prepare for the Iowa game, thanks to the Thursday opener.

Finally, there's the fact that this is the goddamn Iowa-Iowa State game. ANYTHING can, and probably will happen.
2005: "Iowa State can't possibly beat Tate and the Ha- oh..."
2006: ISU was ahead through the mid-3rd, but then Iowa decided to put up 17 unanswered
2007: "NO WAY ISU can win this game by just kicking field goals..."
2008: Wasn't a pretty game for either team.
2009: Iowa wins at JT for the first time in a while, and has probably their best win margin all year.
2010: ????!

EDIT:
Stats pulled from cfbstats.com - 2009 National

Good objective post
 

epstud74

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Jun 12, 2010
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QB is not a push unless you're an ISU fan. 99% of the people who know anything about football would take Stanzi over Arnaud.

I also think that Iowa's db's are completely over-rated.

Sims is probably the best player on either team.

I agree with the rest of your list.


Yea, cept Sims cannot cover deep very well. He's at his best when he's needed for run support. The best way to take Sims out of the game is to make him wary of the deep ball. ISU's CBs probably are not going to win a jump-ball vs McNutt, Davis or DJK
 

epstud74

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That is only because he is on the defense of a top ten team. Their stats were nearly identical last year. Sims had 4 more tackles and a forced fumble, Sash had one more pick. They are pretty even.


Sims will not play FS in the NFL (if he goes) because he's a liability against the deep pass, but can play the run fairly well.
 

epstud74

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QB: Iowa - Stanzi, but it is closer than many think. Arnaud just makes too many mistakes.

RB: ISU best RB, but Hampton is real close. Hard to really say who is better at this point in the season because we haven't seen Hampton at 20 carries per game. As a unit I say Iowa gets the nod.

OL: Iowa

WR: I think as an entire unit this is closer to a draw. Iowa has probably the best WR overall with DJK. Iowa States entire unit looks impressive though.

TE: Iowa

DL: Iowa

LB: Iowa

DB: Draw - I too think Iowa's DB's are overrated at this stage in the game, and our safeties aren't gamebreakers on pass defense. If we are grading on rushing defense then Iowa's secondary is better, but I've yet to see anything out of Iowa's secondary to grant them anywhere close to elite status. They are more beneficiaries of a top 5 in the nation Dline.

Punter: Iowa
Kicker: Iowa
Special Teams: Iowa


I suppose those interceptions by Greenwood and Sash last year vs ISU were not game breakers?

Sash's play against South Carolina in the Outback Bowl was not game-breaking?

This is not NCAA 2010
 

epstud74

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QB- Draw. I am counting Arnaud's runing ability. Because of his legs, I almost give us an edge here.

HB- ISU by a little. Alexander outshines both Hampton and Adam R. Together tho, they give him a run for his money.

TE/WR- Iowa by a little. The TE may be a tie if Franklin plays like last week, but DJK and McNutt are better than anybody we got. They seem to drop off a bit after that, tho, so ISU closes the gap with their 3rd-5th wr.

OL- Tie. KO is a monster. Iowa always has a good Oline, but this year they are a little down.

DL- Iowa by a lot. KO may be able to neutralize clayborn a bit, but they still outclass anybody CPR can thro out their on our DL.

LB- Tie. Both are pretty green. I think ours are a little more talented, but Iowa holds a little more experience (backups for 2/3 years instead of just 1).

DB- Tie. Sims is much more of an athlete than Sash, and outside the Arnaud game of catch, he didn't have many picks last year. But I give them a push. FS is even. O'connell and Greenwood are both smart but uninspiring. The corners, LJ is the best of either team but Iowa's corners are both better in coverage than Benton. He is pretty good in run support tho, so I will give that a tie aswell.

ST- Iowa by a little. Mahoney is inaccurate and dangerous on his PAT's. Our punters first punt went 18 yards. until it gets better, I give Iowa the kicking edge. They also get after punts pretty well.

Off- Even (maybe a little edge to ISU)
Def- Iowa by a good margin, unless the defense seasons up and fixes the arm tackle, then just by a little bit.


I'm willing to bet Stanzi and Arnaud are pretty close when it comes to straight line speed.
 

epstud74

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If my SS isn't tacking or covering then I guess I don't know what he is doing on the field.

He wasn't able to rack up interception stats. Sash has the opportunity to sit back and read the QB and receivers and make plays there. SIms makes tackles. Sims is a better player. The NFL draft next year will tell you that.


Sims is a late round pick at best. We shall see
 

DJK15

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Apr 17, 2008
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The excuse that Sims is unknown because he's on ISU is laughable.

ARob and KO get plenty of national pub despite being on "unknown ISU."

Sash is just better.
 

drednot57

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Apr 26, 2010
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Austen Arnaud was recruited by Dan McCarney as a QB to fit his offensive system, and that AA has been through three different offensive schemes in four years, credit AA's exceptional intelligence to be able to adapt on the fly and be as successful as he has been. AA's a classic drop-back passer who can run leading a spread offense for ISU; he's not an ideal fit for this offense. Yet he's able to run this offense with the confidence and authority as any seasoned collegiate QB should be able to, and has the complete respect and loyalty of his teammates. It's AA's leadership skills, along with his physical skills that bring him the success he's enjoyed until now. I'm sure more than one NFL scout has taken notice of what AA's been through at ISU, and how he's responded so positively. I guess I don't understand why some of our fans are so down on AA one game into the new season. I'm sure AA will have a much better game vs. SUI than last year when he was just starting to learn this offense. Sure AA's made mistakes, but who wouldn't with what he's been through with all the coaching instability at ISU. AA may not lead ISU to victory Saturday, but I'm more than confident his play will give ISU better than a fighting chance. I look forward to a hard-hitting, close game against SUI.
 
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