Lay it Out For Me

[NEIACyclone]

Newish to the ISU wrestling scene...avid football fan, played in college and our boys are starting wrestling at our local club, dad is learning alongside of them...

Why is ISU still a mediocre national talent in collegiate wrestling? I’ve read up on why Cael left and it seems we have never really recovered? Wherein lies the issue? Why are we not investing in the program at the same rate as other national powers? Why are we not even the 2nd best school in the state for wrestling recruits? Why can’t I buy my boys ISU wrestling singlets or headgear for them to promote ISU wrestling at tourneys etc? I’ve called the athletic department and retailers it’s so bewildering.

With wrestling it just feels like we are stuck in the ”old ISU” way of under achieving and not being quite good enough and having excuses to piss it away. I’ll be honest I didn’t think CMC and Co would do what they have with the fball program but they have and I believe have set the bar for all of ISU sports to strain for. So why is the program where it is treading water in mediocrity...

Again I’m not a devout follower but want to cheer and back a prominent component of our Iowa State Athletic program and from what I can tell we aren’t doing all we can from a $ standpoint to compete nationally?

Just a confused and disgruntled fan that wants and now expects more, seeing that it can happen at ISU

 

[Gonzo]

KD is a good coach, the program has had some tough setbacks with injuries and guys stepping away from the sport. Losing Mackall and Gomez and not having Degen at full health were tough blows. With those guys in it would've been a formidable lineup in the Big 12. It's all about recruiting and it's going to be tough to consistently get elite kids while recruiting against Iowa, Okie St., PSU, tOSU, etc.

 

[BCClone]

Few things.

First, Iowa is not the king of HS wrestling anymore. Top end talent is in Ohio andPennsylvania area. So you can’t be a top ten team by grabbing instate talent mostly. Look at our last 4 timers, haven’t been as successful in college as before.

Next, if you don’t get the very elite wrestlers, top 10 overall, not in their weight but total class, you are falling behind.

In general, the interest level is dropping, at least in college and Iowa HS it is. Not having a pro level hurts it. You don’t make the money in wrestling that you do in other sports. Even in the coaching part you don’t. Teams are dropping it on the college level.

Just a few observations

What do you mean that we aren’t even the second best in the state? We beat UNI this year and wasn’t even at full strength.

BTW, My son wore an ISU singlet when he wrestled youth tournies about 10 years ago. Just go to Amazon.

 

[JM4CY]

I’m a born again fan. Was in college when Cael was coaching then fell away because the program ran into the ground. Dresser has things moving in the right direction but the air gets real thin at the top in college wrestling. If you consider how bad of a spot ISU wrestling was in before Dresser showed up, it helps give you a little perspective and shows it’s in a considerably better place now. And I believe the ladder will continue to be climbed. Like CMC did, it takes time to build. And some luck along the way. This year the luck hasn’t really been there. I know we had high hopes going into this year but we still could/should have 4 guys on the podium at the NCAAs and maybe a champ and it’s been I don’t know how many years since that’s happened. Things are moving in the right direction.

 

[crablegs]

Newish to the ISU wrestling scene...avid football fan, played in college and our boys are starting wrestling at our local club, dad is learning alongside of them...

Why is ISU still a mediocre national talent in collegiate wrestling? I’ve read up on why Cael left and it seems we have never really recovered? Wherein lies the issue? Why are we not investing in the program at the same rate as other national powers? Why are we not even the 2nd best school in the state for wrestling recruits? Why can’t I buy my boys ISU wrestling singlets or headgear for them to promote ISU wrestling at tourneys etc? I’ve called the athletic department and retailers it’s so bewildering.

With wrestling it just feels like we are stuck in the ”old ISU” way of under achieving and not being quite good enough and having excuses to piss it away. I’ll be honest I didn’t think CMC and Co would do what they have with the fball program but they have and I believe have set the bar for all of ISU sports to strain for. So why is the program where it is treading water in mediocrity...

Again I’m not a devout follower but want to cheer and back a prominent component of our Iowa State Athletic program and from what I can tell we aren’t doing all we can from a $ standpoint to compete nationally?

Just a confused and disgruntled fan that wants and now expects more, seeing that it can happen at ISU

I'm not sure what the expectations should be for ISU wrestling. Cael might go down as the greatest coach of all time in college wrestling. Certainly a top 5 already in his young career, plus he has extreme name recognition among recruits. He couldn't win a title at ISU. Given that, expectations for what is reasonable/possible should be tampered a bit.

Iowa is not a top high school state for putting out top D1 talent. For that reason, it is a battle to recruit nationally and especially in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New Jersey. ISU just can't compete with Iowa, PSU, TOSU, and OSU for those guys and I don't see how they every will be able to. So, ISU will have to do the best they can with the second tier guys.

I see the best case for ISU as a Missouri/NC State type of program. Develop the second tier guys and continually put out a team that is solid throughout the lineup with multiple AAs and some high AAs/champs. Compete for the top 5 and even take home a 3rd or 4th place trophy every few years.

I think Dresser and staff are getting us there. This year was the year imo that ISU would break into that top 5 conversation. Unfortunately injuries and other off the mat issues have derailed that. However, maybe next year with if they can get Parker, Gremmel, Colbray back in addition to Carr and some improvements from Redding/Robinson maybe they're in the conversation. Also if there is any truth to the well credentialed transfer coming in at a need weight, that would be huge. It is hard to predict because other teams will be bringing back a lot as well.

 

[OKClones]

Dresser is the right guy! I definitely think Cael would have won a title if he would have stuck around and Pollard would have invested in the program back when Cael was here like he is doing now. Pollard went cheap on the hire after Cael and kept that Coach too long, we were left for dead. Can you say ISU basketball right now. Like others have said Iowa isn't the hotbed like it was in the 70's thru 90's. PA, Ohio, Cali, OK and even Michigan have more talent. Injuries this year have derailed a Top 5 team but there's still plenty to get excited about. Takes time after hitting rock bottom!

 

[JM4CY]

I'm not sure what the expectations should be for ISU wrestling. Cael might go down as the greatest coach of all time in college wrestling. Certainly a top 5 already in his young career, plus he has extreme name recognition among recruits. He couldn't win a title at ISU. Given that, expectations for what is reasonable/possible should be tampered a bit.

Iowa is not a top high school state for putting out top D1 talent. For that reason, it is a battle to recruit nationally and especially in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New Jersey. ISU just can't compete with Iowa, PSU, TOSU, and OSU for those guys and I don't see how they every will be able to. So, ISU will have to do the best they can with the second tier guys.

I see the best case for ISU as a Missouri/NC State type of program. Develop the second tier guys and continually put out a team that is solid throughout the lineup with multiple AAs and some high AAs/champs. Compete for the top 5 and even take home a 3rd or 4th place trophy every few years.

I think Dresser and staff are getting us there. This year was the year imo that ISU would break into that top 5 conversation. Unfortunately injuries and other off the mat issues have derailed that. However, maybe next year with if they can get Parker, Gremmel, Colbray back in addition to Carr and some improvements from Redding/Robinson maybe they're in the conversation. Also if there is any truth to the well credentialed transfer coming in at a need weight, that would be huge. It is hard to predict because other teams will be bringing back a lot as well.

So next year....

25 Kysen
33 Redding
41 Parker?
49 Redding (degen if healthy and comes back?)
57 David
65 Griffith from Standford (LOL I have not knowledge, just spitballing... and hoping)
74 Broderson
84 Sammy
97 The Cuban?
Heavy Gremmel?

I mean it's a essentially the same lineup but the youth have gone through some growing pains and should be stronger. That's a pretty solid lineup. If that were to take hold, 41 to 65 (nearly half the lineup) would be a freakin' meat grinder.

 

[theshadow]

I definitely think Cael would have won a title if he would have stuck around and Pollard would have invested in the program back when Cael was here

With what money? ISU was getting ~$9M from TV then. The total revenue for the entire department in that era was less than what they get now just from TV.

 

[OKClones]

With what money? ISU was getting ~$9M from TV then. The total revenue for the entire department in that era was less than what they get now just from TV.

You're right money was tight at that time and there were other issues, keeping the conference together. The question was about the demise of the once Elite program. Losing Cael, not being able to invest in wrestling and a bad hire hurt the program.

 

[stuclone]

So next year....

25 Kysen
33 Redding
41 Parker?
49 Redding (degen if healthy and comes back?)
57 David
65 Griffith from Standford (LOL I have not knowledge, just spitballing... and hoping)
74 Broderson
84 Sammy
97 The Cuban?
Heavy Gremmel?

I mean it's a essentially the same lineup but the youth have gone through some growing pains and should be stronger. That's a pretty solid lineup. If that were to take hold, 41 to 65 (nearly half the lineup) would be a freakin' meat grinder.

No inside info, but I don't think Colbray is back next year. I would guess Broderson bumps up to 184 (I'm hoping part of his growing pain is the cut and being a full sized 184 will benefit him). Not sure who fills in at 174 in this scenario. Also believe you meant Robinson at 149 and not Redding (though Degen could be back).

 

[JM4CY]

No inside info, but I don't think Colbray is back next year. I would guess Broderson bumps up to 184 (I'm hoping part of his growing pain is the cut and being a full sized 184 will benefit him). Not sure who fills in at 174 in this scenario. Also believe you meant Robinson at 149 and not Redding (though Degen could be back).

Correct. My bad. Robinson. You absolutely need Robinson ready to go given Degen's health issues (if he comes back). I don't like the idea of bumping one of them up to 57 and David to 65. IMO the advantages they both have with their length is given up some at 57 and you will see less positive results. I've had the same impression about Broderson. The kid has so much talent but just looks out of fuel in the 3rd sometimes and it makes you wonder if the cut is too much. I feel like he will be fine and grow though. He's shown me enough this year to be bullish on him.

 

[CyGold]

I'm not sure what the expectations should be for ISU wrestling. Cael might go down as the greatest coach of all time in college wrestling. Certainly a top 5 already in his young career, plus he has extreme name recognition among recruits. He couldn't win a title at ISU. Given that, expectations for what is reasonable/possible should be tampered a bit.

Iowa is not a top high school state for putting out top D1 talent. For that reason, it is a battle to recruit nationally and especially in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New Jersey. ISU just can't compete with Iowa, PSU, TOSU, and OSU for those guys and I don't see how they every will be able to. So, ISU will have to do the best they can with the second tier guys.

I see the best case for ISU as a Missouri/NC State type of program. Develop the second tier guys and continually put out a team that is solid throughout the lineup with multiple AAs and some high AAs/champs. Compete for the top 5 and even take home a 3rd or 4th place trophy every few years.

I think Dresser and staff are getting us there. This year was the year imo that ISU would break into that top 5 conversation. Unfortunately injuries and other off the mat issues have derailed that. However, maybe next year with if they can get Parker, Gremmel, Colbray back in addition to Carr and some improvements from Redding/Robinson maybe they're in the conversation. Also if there is any truth to the well credentialed transfer coming in at a need weight, that would be huge. It is hard to predict because other teams will be bringing back a lot as well.

I have a slightly more positive take than Crabs:

1. "Cael couldn't win a title at ISU" - Yes the fact is he didn't win one. However, in my opinion he definitely had us in position to win it all. IIRC IF Cyler Sanderson (AA) stays for his Sr year (and #1 ranked Gallick stays healthy) we could have won it all in blowout fashion. Cael was also building and was able to recruit the best guys (like David Taylor) to Ames. It hurt bad when he left but there's no doubt a great coach can win it all here in the future. I believe in JP's vision and that Dresser and Co is the way to get this done.

2. "ISU will have to do the best they can with second tier guys". I think when/if a program breaks through then the top guys will consider that program (ISU) along with the other blue bloods. I can name a number of programs whom took some time but eventually broke through and won it all. In that process they also started getting top level recruits. Minny (J. Rob) and Ohio State (Ryan) are a couple that come to mind. We are on the right track to join programs in becoming a legit contender... someone else compared it to our FB program and CMC progression. I think that is a great comparison.

3. My best case scenario is for us to be like the ISU of old (under Dr. Harold Nichols) - I'd say that would be comparable to where Tom Ryan has Ohio State and John Smith & OSU are right now. They've broken through and are hanging tough. Yes, they have down years but don't count them out. It wouldn't surprise me if they both continue win team titles every few years. I think most Blue Chips will give them a good look. Trust the process (ala CMC The only scenario that could derail this vision is if some team goes on a Gable like run titles and everyone else is fighting for 2nd place. Dr. Nichols had a ton of teams place second... no shame there. Even as well as Cael has done he's going to have to pull a Gable like miracle to win it this year. IMO there's only one Gable and he was coached by the GOAT Dr. Nichols... Now that has come full circle and Gable coached Dresser, is going to bring the title back to Ames. (Told you I'm an optimist)

4. "I think Dresser and staff are getting us there" - I agree 100% with this paragraph/take.

Go Cyclones and good luck in Tulsa!

 

[JM4CY]

Dear Santa.... All I want next year:

25 Kysen (healthy)
33 Redding
41 Parker
49 Degen (healthy) vs Robinson (winner takes it) [I'm biased towards healthy Degen]
57 Carr
65 Griffith from Standford or (JM4CY is a wise man)
74 Broderson (with a single leg or other low level attack)
84 Sammy vs. healthy Shapiro (winner takes it)
97 Coleman vs The Cuban (winner takes it)
Hvy Gremmel

Don't forget about Logan Schumacher. I do agree that Griffith or other new recruit would probably be a upgrade. However, Schumacher (assuming he's healthy) might be a diamond in the rough to strengthen our lineup. Judge has also shown some fight and I hope he continues to improve.

If you asking Santa, I think you want a Cuban who finally understands folkstyle and is now killing guys. I mean we might be a couple years away from that still but, hey, doesn't hurt to ask the big guy up north, does it?

 

[CyGold]

So next year....

25 Kysen
33 Redding
41 Parker?
49 Redding (degen if healthy and comes back?)
57 David
65 Griffith from Standford (LOL I have not knowledge, just spitballing... and hoping)
74 Broderson
84 Sammy
97 The Cuban?
Heavy Gremmel?

I mean it's a essentially the same lineup but the youth have gone through some growing pains and should be stronger. That's a pretty solid lineup. If that were to take hold, 41 to 65 (nearly half the lineup) would be a freakin' meat grinder.

Don't forget about Logan Schumacher. I do agree that Griffith or other new recruit would probably be a upgrade. However, Schumacher (assuming he's healthy) might be a diamond in the rough to strengthen our lineup. Judge has also shown some fight and I hope he continues to improve.

I also need to get used Joel Devine (vs Shapiro)

I think this would be a tough lineup if everyone stays, gets healthy and continues to improve
25 - Kysen
33 - Redding
41 - Parker
49 - Degen vs Robinson winner
57 - Carr
65 - Schumacher vs. Judge winner
74 - Broderson
84 - Sammy vs. Devine winner
97 - Coleman vs. Bastida winner
Hwt - Gremmel

 

[DantheFan]

Yeah, the year Cael left, we definitely would have been the favorites for the team title.

It is a huge bummer we couldn't have held on to Cael and all the potential that left with him, even just for one more year, but I see both sides of that whole situation between Cael and Pollard.
Cael had the opportunity to go where his program could be well funded and it put him in the middle of the recruiting hotbed. Pollard couldn't invest as much in wrestling at the time because he had his own plan and process for ISU athletics, to build the revenue sports first then invest in the rest. That plan seems to be playing out successfully, and hopefully, post-COVID, we'll start seeing more of that trickle-down from football. Though I have a feeling basketball may get some attention from Pollard first.

All in all, we're solid and seem to be on the up and up. Seeing some quality recruits from PA, OH, MI, NY in our line-up/committed makes me excited for the future. Also, having a guy like Metcalf being groomed to be our future HC is pretty huge.

Just wish this season could have lived up to our hopes, but it's still miles better than things looked just a few seasons back.

 

[stuclone]

I think it's also important to note that PSU has a much healthier donor base for wrestling than Iowa State does. Their RTC is very well funded and a huge reason that they see a lot of success on the recruiting trail with blue chip recruits. Come to PSU and train with David Taylor, Kyle Snyder, etc, then make good money while wrestling in the RTC after you graduate. That has been one of the big reasons KD wants to build up the CRTC. Until the NCAA changes their regulations around them, RTCs will be the difference between the top tier programs and the middle tier programs.

 

[NEIACyclone]

Thank you everyone for your input and many years of fandom to insight past history to help shape where you feel the wrestling program is going...I do feel more optimistic with most of your responses that feel Dresser and Co are the right fit for the program and are doing "more with less" on a national scale to hang pat and when injuries/luck align we are there for a solid national finish. In regards to the licensing of wrestling apparel does anyone have an answer for that? I have scoured the internet and am confused as to why ISU doesnt license to Kliff Keen, Rudis etc to help build the brand, if nothing else within our state lines. Our boys love ISU and would love to be able to buy singlets, headgear etc...

With regards to Pollard, do we know where Wrestling stands on his 5 year, 10 year plan and when it gets attention and what areas we will see upgrades etc? At the end of the day Pollard and CMC have done a tremendous job raising the bar for ISU Athletics and I for one cannot stand being #2 to anyone let alone UI out east in any sport...am cautiously optimistic we are not that far off. Cant help but think of the saying, "rising tides raise all ships" in regards to our Wrestling program reaping the benefits of CMC and the revenue engine that is Football. Even if their has been a shift in HS Wrestling epicenter I cant help but feel we have enough of a decorated past that we should be a bigger player on the national stage...Thanks looking forward to following the program closer and will be getting a lot of info from this forum!

 

[stuclone]

Thank you everyone for your input and many years of fandom to insight past history to help shape where you feel the wrestling program is going...I do feel more optimistic with most of your responses that feel Dresser and Co are the right fit for the program and are doing "more with less" on a national scale to hang pat and when injuries/luck align we are there for a solid national finish. In regards to the licensing of wrestling apparel does anyone have an answer for that? I have scoured the internet and am confused as to why ISU doesnt license to Kliff Keen, Rudis etc to help build the brand, if nothing else within our state lines. Our boys love ISU and would love to be able to buy singlets, headgear etc...

With regards to Pollard, do we know where Wrestling stands on his 5 year, 10 year plan and when it gets attention and what areas we will see upgrades etc? At the end of the day Pollard and CMC have done a tremendous job raising the bar for ISU Athletics and I for one cannot stand being #2 to anyone let alone UI out east in any sport...am cautiously optimistic we are not that far off. Cant help but think of the saying, "rising tides raise all ships" in regards to our Wrestling program reaping the benefits of CMC and the revenue engine that is Football. Even if their has been a shift in HS Wrestling epicenter I cant help but feel we have enough of a decorated past that we should be a bigger player on the national stage...Thanks looking forward to following the program closer and will be getting a lot of info from this forum!

Can't speak to the licensing question. I know the CRTC has some cool gear, and you can get Cyclone Wrestling sweatshirts and clothing from Cy's Locker Room.

As far as Pollard and investing in wrestling goes, he has stepped up in recent years. Dresser and Co are some of the highest paid coaches in the nation and there have been some improvements to the wrestling room. I think it will take getting a brand new wrestling facility to really take another step as a program to be at the same level as an Oklahoma State/tOSU/Cornell. There was a new wrestling facility in the initial rendering of the re-design for the space between Hilton and Jack Trice, but with COVID that obviously pushes that plan out a bit. With where the AD is with budgets, I think Pollard is doing what he can. Just sucks that his hands were tied with conference re-alignment in the early 2010s that lost us Cael and then he went cheap on the next hire.

 

[CyGold]

Regarding JP - I agree with Stu.

To add onto (or maybe just repeat) Stu's post. I'd say JP hit a home run by hiring Coach Dresser and his willingness to take a HUGE step up in all of the coaches salaries speaks volumes to me. JP essentially gave Coach Dresser an open checkbook which resulted in the hiring of Zadick, St. John & Metcalf (IMO the best assistant coaches available at the time). Another thing that speaks volumes is the fact that Coach Dresser is a proven fundraiser and is being supported by JP and we are seeing the results in the CRTC donation tree (check it out & donate if you haven't done so already).

COVID is making everyone nervous unless your our FB coaches.

 

[JM4CY]

I think most of us agree, Dresser was a great hire and doing a good/great job. Related to the new facilities, I think an additional thing that makes me really happy with KD is that he appears to be a hell of a fundraiser and one business savvy dude. I think he would even tell you he enjoys that part of the job. The RTC is evidence of this. KD is no idiot and knows what you need to have to build a top program. And If there is money to be raised, he will find it where he can. And I believe he will continue to push for whatever his program can get and make his needs known to the AD.

Furthermore, I would have to believe that it's very possible that part of the agreement between JP and KD had when JP hired him was that he made KD know that the wrestling program was important to JP and he will do what he can to support growth.

Maybe this is all sunshine and rainbows but I don't think it is.