MONDAY MUSINGS: Hoops thoughts, football coaching changes, don't be a jackass

[CyTwins]

Twins is just trolling. It's his shtick.

How am I possibly trolling in this thread? I don't troll outside ISR or forums that belong in the ISR

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I don't agree that the 2017-18 season shouldn't be on on Prohm. That season started more than two years after he and his staff stepped on campus (third season).

There can always be excuses as to why a coach fails. Hell, we can even empathize with them (see GMac), but winning is what matters. Above (almost) all else. The excuses for this year's failures have already started and while it's normal, it doesn't help win games.

Fred was hired by the bulls in June of 2015 so we literally lost an entire recruiting cycle. Follow that up with the fact that our upperclassman heavy roster had McKay, Nader, Morris, Thomas, Burton, and Niang on it... Prohm literally had 1.5 recruiting cycles to build relationships with targets and fill in the holes. I'm pretty comfortable giving Prohm a pass on the 2017-2018 season.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Fred was hired by the bulls in June of 2015 so we literally lost an entire recruiting cycle. Follow that up with the fact that our upperclassman heavy roster had McKay, Nader, Morris, Thomas, Burton, and Niang on it... Prohm literally had 1.5 recruiting cycles to build relationships with targets and fill in the holes. I'm pretty comfortable giving Prohm a pass on the 2017-2018 season.

Prohm also doubled-down on maximizing the return to the 2016-2017 roster with those four seniors back in bringing in some graduate transfers who were not very good but at least had some experience playing college basketball before that.

That decision is questionable in hindsight considering Bowie and Holden were not very good, but the mentality behind it was a reasonable enough strategy.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Prohm also doubled-down on maximizing the return to the 2016-2017 roster with those four seniors back in bringing in some graduate transfers who were not very good but at least had some experience playing college basketball before that.

That decision is questionable in hindsight considering Bowie and Holden were not very good, but the mentality behind it was a reasonable enough strategy.

Holden and Bowie weren't his only grad transfer targets though. He tried to fill the void left by the class prior but simply didn't have the time to do so and the transfer market was getting very competitive.

 

[VeloClone]

Fred was hired by the bulls in June of 2015 so we literally lost an entire recruiting cycle. Follow that up with the fact that our upperclassman heavy roster had McKay, Nader, Morris, Thomas, Burton, and Niang on it... Prohm literally had 1.5 recruiting cycles to build relationships with targets and fill in the holes. I'm pretty comfortable giving Prohm a pass on the 2017-2018 season.

Don't forget that Prohm had a 4 star PG signed for that class who waited until May (he was supposed to show up in Ames in June) to ask out of his LOI. Prohm really had no option to replace him.

 

[AuH2O]

What are realistic expectations? Mine is the NCAA tournament 75-80% of the time. If we become a team that goes every other year for the next 10 I would suspect CSP and JP would consider that falling short of expectations.

My expectation is not a Big 12 title every few years. But winning one every decade should be a goal. Getting to the tournament 8 times in a decade should be the goal. Having 2 Sweet 16 appearances in a decade should be a goal. That is what Top 25-35 programs do and I sincerely believe Iowa State is and should be that type of program. I’m honestly curious.

So Floyd and Hoiberg barely made this metric and all other ISU coaches have not been successful, including Eustachy?

I'll also assume that Hoiberg's 4 NCAA wins in 5 years falls short of expectation based on some of these metrics.

 

[EarthIsMan]

What are realistic expectations? Mine is the NCAA tournament 75-80% of the time. If we become a team that goes every other year for the next 10 I would suspect CSP and JP would consider that falling short of expectations.

My expectation is not a Big 12 title every few years. But winning one every decade should be a goal. Getting to the tournament 8 times in a decade should be the goal. Having 2 Sweet 16 appearances in a decade should be a goal. That is what Top 25-35 programs do and I sincerely Iowa State is and should be that type of program. I’m honestly curious.

Reaching the tournament 2 of every 3 years to me is a reasonable, high expectation. But context is important when evaluating the success of each year (injuries, player attrition, luck, etc.).

Some fans are just uncomfortable with uncertainty. The program is at a critical juncture. The ISU program reached unprecedented consistency under Hoiberg. But it also reached a point where that success didn't seem sustainable due to the reliance on 1 and done HS recruits & an increasingly competitive transfer market each year to fill out the roster. Some of the fanbase is still unsure of what to make of Prohm.

Is it a reasonable expectation to keep improving upon the Hoiberg era or simply remain in simply that echelon? Or will Prohm take the program to some of the darkness experienced in the program's past?

It is reasonable to be critical of Prohm, but a vocal minority is overreacting to the current state and future of the program. Certainly, the rest of year and next year is important, but calling for a hasty change lacks foresight.

 

[rochclone]

So Floyd and Hoiberg barely made this metric and all other ISU coaches have not been successful, including Eustachy?

I'll also assume that Hoiberg's 4 NCAA wins in 5 years falls short of expectation based on some of these metrics.

Well 4 out of 5 is 80% so it wouldn’t fall short of those expectations. But rather than discounting my thoughts, why don’t you tell me what your expectations are for the program. It is the tournament every other year, every third year on a 10 year spectrum what should be the realistic goals?

 

[rochclone]

Reaching the tournament 2 of every 3 years to me is a reasonable, high expectation. But context is important when evaluating the success of each year (injuries, player attrition, luck, etc.).
Some fans are just uncomfortable with uncertainty. The program is at a critical juncture. The ISU program reached unprecedented consistency under Hoiberg. But it also reached a point where that success didn't seem sustainable due to the reliance on 1 and done HS recruits & an increasingly competitive transfer market each year to fill out the roster. Some of the fanbase is still unsure of what to make of Prohm.

Is it a reasonable expectation to keep improving upon the Hoiberg era or simply remain in simply that echelon? Or will Prohm take the program to some of the darkness experienced in the program's past?
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It is reasonable to be critical of Prohm, but a vocal minority is overreacting to the current state and future of the program. Certainly, the rest of year and next year is important, but calling for a hasty change lacks foresight.

Thanks for engaging in the conversation.

 

[CYdTracked]

This is what came to mind as I read through this thread

 

[Rabbuk]

Didn't Mcneil end up kind of ****.