I don't disagree. Things were looking good under Fred, but we had a lot of the same problems we have now - bad defense and really bad rebounding.
MONDAY MUSINGS: Hoops thoughts, football coaching changes, don't be a jackass
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I don't disagree. Things were looking good under Fred, but we had a lot of the same problems we have now - bad defense and really bad rebounding.
JP is not going to fire Prohm this year or next. He's not going to eat the buyout, regardless of record. For that reason alone, I'll never join the 'Fire Prohm' crowd as it is a total waste of time.
I do hope that Steve makes at least one assistant change at the end of the year.
Imagine where we would have been had TCU missed that banked three (ugh what an Iowa State moment that was) or TH hit the game-winner.
"Back on the right track."
"Huge win for the NCAA tournament."
"I believe in Haliburton and Conditt."
The haters (somewhat) chastised.
Amazing how such small things change everything about a narrative.
The margin of error at Iowa State will always be smaller than a gnat’s pecker.
Is anybody even making the claim he's a good X's and O's coach? Even his staunchest defenders pretty much cede that point.
Every coach has strengths and deficiencies. I think you can claim that Prohm is a good coach in some ways and bad in others. I think on a macro level, he's a pretty good coach. My issue is that I think he's a good recruiter, but due to unexpected early entries (THT) we now have a roster that just doesn't make sense for what he wants to do. We're seeing that play out in some pretty bad performances. Again I'm fine with his ceiling, if you tell me a 6 seed in the tourney each year I'd be fine with it. The problem is that his floor is way, way too low. And if this year finishes like I think it will, and if next year goes how I think it will without TH, nobody will be arguing about the direction of the program at that point.
While I'd feel better with a win and I might find more hope, we still competed with a bottom of the league team rather than competing for much better. I'm sure that ship sailed a long time ago, but just more confirmation of expectations for the year.
in many ways, the worst thing that happened to us was Fred coming back and how close we felt to greatness for a couple of years. Seemed to erase decades of pain and might have raised expectations that are difficult to maintain.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Piling on, look at Cubs fans. Suddenly, we have a huge # of fans all ticked off that we didn't run off 3-4 titles in a row after waiting for the one.
It's just part of the deal, and it's all about winning. If not winning, fans ought to be bothered.
That team got their **** together once Dec 1st hit. The Drake and UNI losses were the main reason they were an 8 seed. Pretty much won from then on and had a 12-6 Big 12 record. Also won a game in the tourney. Last years team was collapsing in February during the important part of the conference season.
Yeah just to follow up and clarify: I have no beef with passionate fans being critical of a coach and team because you care. It's the over the top, jack ass stuff that I think we as a fan base should try to be better than. I see it all of the time. Has happened forever, people just have so many outlets now that it's everywhere. We have to self police each other to be the best fan base possible. Just my two cents.
He raised those expectations before following through on them himself, too.
I know some people on here like to say Fred had an "upwards trajectory" his last four years, but the advanced statistics say his four tournament teams were approximately the same on net efficiency even if the W-L records were slightly better.
Besides, projecting a linear trend forwards into infinity is the worst kind of reasoning. I think Fred was discovering from awful to respectable was easier than going from respectable to national powerhouse. Fred might have kept the team oscillating between 15th and 25th more consistently, but maybe never more than that.
I would imagine some on here would be slaughtering him for that by now --
"Where are the Big 12 regular season championships/Final Fours!"
"Has Fred peaked/ran out of gas?"
"I am sick of a decade of bad defense and hero ball!"
I think the story of the Twenty-First Century so far is that human progress has been incredible, but growing at only a geometric rate. Meanwhile, our expectations, especially in the developed world, are growing at an exponential rate.
Something has to give in that situation.
Yep. For most sports fans, high level success is fleeting. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset when it starts to slip away. It sucks.
I'm all for no jack***-ery. There's a very distinct difference between a merit/fact based analysis of the kind of job Prohm has done as opposed to being a ****. As I mentioned in another thread, I think at the point you go from having a discussion to an argument it's time to move on.
I will say, however, that there appears to be a contingent who feel Prohm is above any criticism. The man is paid over 2 million dollars a year. I think we can all probably appreciate there are arguments for and against his performance thus far as a coach. I'm all for not being a ****, but at the same time I think it's ridiculous to see some act as though he is above reproach.
I will say, however, that there appears to be a contingent who feel Prohm is above any criticism. The man is paid over 2 million dollars a year. I think we can all probably appreciate there are arguments for and against his performance thus far as a coach. I'm all for not being a ****, but at the same time I think it's ridiculous to see some act as though he is above reproach.
Finally got in the top 25, head to Hilton South and Fred can't even get a win down there which bumps us to the 8/9 line. Don't even remind me of the loss to a pathetic 15-18 Oklahoma State squad in mid February either. Brutal coaching job that year
Lol, what? You think knowledgeable people would have been talking NCAA tourney still had we beat TCU? In the grand scheme of things most people understand that game was probably the difference in going 4-14 in the Big 12 instead of 5-13.
Name names, Senator McCarthy.
I doubt anybody really thinks this -- especially after FL A&M.
I have seen this a lot, and it’s starting to drive me nuts, so I apologize for taking it out on you. This is not hard. What has happened to Jacobson? Last year he was a stretch 5 surrounded by four shooters/guards. This year, we have three 5s and no 4s. He’s the best candidate to shoot threes and chase stretch 4s around the perimeter, so he’s playing wildly out of position. THAT is what has happened.
The teams best (matchup dependent) line-up is Conditt and 4 shooters, and there is a reason that George and Solomon don’t play together. Conditt has probably earned the start based on play this year, but Jacobson is not the one (or the only one) coming off the bench if that happens.
I really do hate the Fred vs. Prohm debate, but I think the reason one is celebrated and one is...not as celebrated...is the program they took over. Fred restored us to relevance. He came in to a completely bare cupboard and had us competitive within 2 years. Iowa State basketball was exciting again. That excitement made it easy to overlook some of his coaching issues. I also think everyone went in to it understanding he had no coaching experience and there would be a learning curve there.
With Prohm, he was the experienced coach being handed the keys to an up-and-coming program. Plenty of returning talent, increased national notoriety, etc. So I think there's a perception he should have kept us going on that trajectory but failed. The hope was he could maybe fill in some of those coaching gaps that left you wanting at times with Fred. I'm not sure we really see that.
So I think while you can compare their success levels the question is largely about what type of program they walked in to and what they've done with it.
It was a toss up game. If they win, there may have been some people saying they were on the right track for NCAA but they would be mistaken. TCU was picked last for a reason. A win against a last place team doesn't change the direction of the season.
