*** Official #14 IOWA STATE vs Texas (SAMSUBA) Game(Day) Thread ***

[ZRF]

Texas is a guard heavy team and we were going to pressure the crap out of them, leading to guys being tired. Pav came in early and did fine and then throughout he made some plays, both offensively and defensively. He wasn't perfect but you don't need your role players to be. His role is to soak up minutes if need be and TJ obviously thought it was going to be needed against a team like that. AND IT WAS SUCCESSFUL.

None of the other posters, including myself are saying that Pav should be playing anymore than he already does, which is not much. You're the only one saying that he should never ever see the floor, which means you're going against TJ and are burying your head in the sand with what you just saw on Tuesday night.

Your posting style is just so damn arrogant honestly. If you would've said "I don't think Pav is ready to play at this level but man, the kid came in and stepped up when called upon and I hope that can keep happening", that'd be one thing. But you completely refuse to be wrong even when being proven wrong by Jackson himself.

Your points are invalid. Even when you do make a valid point, such as Texas is a guard heavy lineup, it doesn't nothing to counter my point which is we don't NEED Pav's minutes. Watson played 7 minutes to Pavs' 9. So not only did Pavs play 9 minutes (which is ludicrous in and of itself), Watson only played 7. When looking at the body of work in conference there just isn't a justification to play Pavs at all, let alone only play Watson 7. There's ample evidence to back that up.

You want the guards to get their rest? Easy, play Watson 13-15 minutes, which he is completely capable of doing. It's also preposterous Ward only got 14 minutes, especially in having a large lead for most of the 2nd half. There are plenty of available combinations that allow for rest and keep Pavs on the bench.

The reason you don't like my posts is because I make a specific point, which you poorly refute, and you refuse to cede ground. You've been dying on the we "can play Pavs hill" when I've shown, repeatedly, that he can't. Thta's not my fault buddy, that's yours.

 

[NebrClone]

Your points are invalid. Even when you do make a valid point, such as Texas is a guard heavy lineup, it doesn't nothing to counter my point which is we don't NEED Pav's minutes. Watson played 7 minutes to Pavs' 9. So not only did Pavs play 9 minutes (which is ludicrous in and of itself), Watson only played 7. When looking at the body of work in conference there just isn't a justification to play Pavs at all, let alone only play Watson 7. There's ample evidence to back that up.

You want the guards to get their rest? Easy, play Watson 13-15 minutes, which he is completely capable of doing. It's also preposterous Ward only got 14 minutes, especially in having a large lead for most of the 2nd half. There are plenty of available combinations that allow for rest and keep Pavs on the bench.

The reason you don't like my posts is because I make a specific point, which you poorly refute, and you refuse to cede ground. You've been dying on the we "can play Pavs hill" when I've shown, repeatedly, that he can't. Thta's not my fault buddy, that's yours.

You are a broken record that needs to be thrown out.

 

[cycloneG]

Your points are invalid. Even when you do make a valid point, such as Texas is a guard heavy lineup, it doesn't nothing to counter my point which is we don't NEED Pav's minutes. Watson played 7 minutes to Pavs' 9. So not only did Pavs play 9 minutes (which is ludicrous in and of itself), Watson only played 7. When looking at the body of work in conference there just isn't a justification to play Pavs at all, let alone only play Watson 7. There's ample evidence to back that up.

You want the guards to get their rest? Easy, play Watson 13-15 minutes, which he is completely capable of doing. It's also preposterous Ward only got 14 minutes, especially in having a large lead for most of the 2nd half. There are plenty of available combinations that allow for rest and keep Pavs on the bench.

The reason you don't like my posts is because I make a specific point, which you poorly refute, and you refuse to cede ground. You've been dying on the we "can play Pavs hill" when I've shown, repeatedly, that he can't. Thta's not my fault buddy, that's yours.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

We have seen since the start of conference play that Pav is struggling verses the quicker/stronger guards that this conference has. He was fine in the preseason, but since conference play has begun, it's been a struggle. He is at the point this season where he should be getting 3-5 minutes a game at most unless there is foul trouble or something like that which presses us to play him more.
The kid can play, he is only a sophomore, and I am sure he is going to work on getting stronger and fixings his weaknesses, but that is only going to happen in the offseason, not this season.

 

[ZRF]

You are a broken record that needs to be thrown out.

Put me on ignore then. I couldn't care less.

The question you should be asking is "why is he a 'broken record'? Usually I bring up things like Pav's play when, you know, it's relevant (because he played 9 minutes when it should be zero) or when geniuses like Statefan keep responding to posts with the "but Pavs isn't that bad" BS without bringing much to the table.

Of all 'counterarguments' posters can make on here, trying to justify Pav's playing time is one of the worst takes one could have. You simply don't play terrible players when you have better players at your disposal. It really shouldn't be that hard for some to grasp.

 

[Statefan10]

Your points are invalid. Even when you do make a valid point, such as Texas is a guard heavy lineup, it doesn't nothing to counter my point which is we don't NEED Pav's minutes. Watson played 7 minutes to Pavs' 9. So not only did Pavs play 9 minutes (which is ludicrous in and of itself), Watson only played 7. When looking at the body of work in conference there just isn't a justification to play Pavs at all, let alone only play Watson 7. There's ample evidence to back that up.

You want the guards to get their rest? Easy, play Watson 13-15 minutes, which he is completely capable of doing. It's also preposterous Ward only got 14 minutes, especially in having a large lead for most of the 2nd half. There are plenty of available combinations that allow for rest and keep Pavs on the bench.

The reason you don't like my posts is because I make a specific point, which you poorly refute, and you refuse to cede ground. You've been dying on the we "can play Pavs hill" when I've shown, repeatedly, that he can't. Thta's not my fault buddy, that's yours.

I could give a rats ass if Pav plays or not lol I'm just saying that he did play against Texas. It's like you didn't even watch the game. Jackson played 9 minutes and went 3-4 with 6 points and 3 rebounds. That's a solid 9 minutes and you refuse to even acknowledge that because you want to claim you know ball which you seriously do not. You can write all the paragraphs you want on here and spew your nonsense but when nearly 99% of the people on here refute what you said, maybe take a look in the mirror and realize you might not be a basketball guru like you think you are, buddy.

 

[Statefan10]

We have seen since the start of conference play that Pav is struggling verses the quicker/stronger guards that this conference has. He was fine in the preseason, but since conference play has begun, it's been a struggle. He is at the point this season where he should be getting 3-5 minutes a game at most unless there is foul trouble or something like that which presses use to play him more.
The kid can play, he is only a sophomore, and I am sure he is going to work on getting stronger and fixings his weaknesses, but that is only going to happen in the offseason, not this season.

I think that could've been an original plan but when TJ saw Pav holding his own he rolled the dice and it worked. I don't see him continuing to get 9+ minutes a game.

 

[ZRF]

We have seen since the start of conference play that Pav is struggling verses the quicker/stronger guards that this conference has. He was fine in the preseason, but since conference play has begun, it's been a struggle. He is at the point this season where he should be getting 3-5 minutes a game at most unless there is foul trouble or something like that which presses use to play him more.
The kid can play, he is only a sophomore, and I am sure he is going to work on getting stronger and fixings his weaknesses, but that is only going to happen in the offseason, not this season.

Finally someone that's been watching the games.

Maybe he hits the weights and adds some speed, explosion, and strength to counter some of his weaknesses. I'm pulling for him. But his time simply isn't now and it pains me watching him trying to defend the quicker, taller, stronger guards. He's trying, but he can't keep up.

 

[Statefan10]

Put me on ignore then. I couldn't care less.

The question you should be asking is "why is he a 'broken record'? Usually I bring up things like Pav's play when, you know, it's relevant (because he played 9 minutes when it should be zero) or when geniuses like Statefan keep responding to posts with the "but Pavs isn't that bad" BS without bringing much to the table.

Of all 'counterarguments' posters can make on here, trying to justify Pav's playing time is one of the worst takes one could have. You simply don't play terrible players when you have better players at your disposal. It really shouldn't be that hard for some to grasp.

HE JUST HAD A GOOD GAME

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I think that could've been an original plan but when TJ saw Pav holding his own he rolled the dice and it worked. I don't see him continuing to get 9+ minutes a game.

It should be a game by game deal, depending on the score and the team we are playing. No doubt the kid is struggling since conference play. I like him, but he needs to improve a lot to get serious minutes on the floor. But he is only a sophomore and I am sure this was a big jump in talent level to what he was playing against last season. Just like with Omaha, its goings to take time.

 

[ZRF]

I could give a rats ass if Pav plays or not lol I'm just saying that he did play against Texas. It's like you didn't even watch the game. Jackson played 9 minutes and went 3-4 with 6 points and 3 rebounds. That's a solid 9 minutes and you refuse to even acknowledge that because you want to claim you know ball which you seriously do not. You can write all the paragraphs you want on here and spew your nonsense but when nearly 99% of the people on here refute what you said, maybe take a look in the mirror and realize you might not be a basketball guru like you think you are, buddy.

First of all you have to be honest in the assessment. He went 3 of 4 with of those shots being poor, low percentage shots he was lucky to make (glad he did). One or two of those boards came off of long misses. But, for arguments sake lets say Pavs didn't hurt us offensively.

It's the defense that really drags him down. Literally EVERY time in the half court Texas was running circles around him. He can't keep up on a straight line, can't fight through or around screens, he's a REALLY easy player to shake. I actually feel the worst when he faces up, does everything right, but has his strength/size exploited by a more athletic or taller player. Since Texas' guards aren't super big it's often the speed/strength that slows him down. And it completely ***** UP our entire defense. Seriously, since you are so adamant, I challenge you to go back and watch the film from the game. Key on Pavs, count the number of times he's directly exploited, then count the number of times the scrambling (necessitated by him) screws up the defense. It's almost every half court possession the opposition has.

There's a reason why there are advanced stats and film. There are box score heros (Hunter Dickinson) and guys like a Ward that alter a game, yet often don't have the traditional stats to show for it. The film and advanced stats CLEARLY demonstrate Pavs isn't ready for the competition he's currently tasked with playing. Sadly that's not even his fault, it's the coaches for putting him in that position.

And yes, I do adamantly state this is one of a few areas TJ has dropped the ball on.

 

[ZRF]

It should be a game by game deal, depending on the score and the team we are playing. No doubt the kid is struggling since conference play. I like him, but he needs to improve a lot to get serious minutes on the floor. But he is only a sophomore and I am sure this was a big jump in talent level to what he was playing against last season. Just like with Omaha, its goings to take time.

Even though Omaha has struggled more than anyone, I personally would rather he see more playing time than Pavs. Omaha's struggles aren't athleticism or size, rather it's slowing the game down and reeling in the mental lapses. While (ideally) you don't want that "fixed" during conference play, athleticism plays better against elite competition, while someone with better skills and little of the former relatively struggle.

There's a lot more reason to think Omaha can improve than Pavs, simply because Pav's issues are things it takes an offseason to improve/fix/correct. Look no further than BRE (improved body, footwork, etc) on that one.

 

[madguy30]

I could give a rats ass if Pav plays or not lol I'm just saying that he did play against Texas. It's like you didn't even watch the game. Jackson played 9 minutes and went 3-4 with 6 points and 3 rebounds. That's a solid 9 minutes and you refuse to even acknowledge that because you want to claim you know ball which you seriously do not. You can write all the paragraphs you want on here and spew your nonsense but when nearly 99% of the people on here refute what you said, maybe take a look in the mirror and realize you might not be a basketball guru like you think you are, buddy.

Don't need to know everything but aren't you someone who actually has intel with the program a bit? Could be wrong.

 

[ZRF]

I think that could've been an original plan but when TJ saw Pav holding his own he rolled the dice and it worked. I don't see him continuing to get 9+ minutes a game.

If you play Russian Roulette with 5 bullets, pull the trigger, and the gun doesn't go off does that make it a good decision?

There was no reason to expect Pavs to step in and play well. Why? He's had more than enough minutes against elite competition to show he physically isn't ready for the challenge. Making a bad decision (which you can only judge with what was available at the time) and having it go "better than it could have" doesn't make it smart.

That's a ridiculous stance to take. It was a bad decision and one that didn't even play out as well as you state. He got ******* destroyed on a fast break opp and was destroyed defensively. The offense was simply a lucky bonus.

If he had shot those 2 open 3s, one of which he ironically passed up for one of those ******** fade away shots, and made one or both, I'd change the offensive assessment. Defensively he was overmatched. You should never put an overmatched player on the floor when you don't have to.

 

[trevn]

I think the real problem is ZRF presents his opinions (repeatedly) as undeniable facts and completely shoots down an opposing opinion as nonsense. Claiming to want a debate but being unwilling to even entertain an opposing view is a great way to make sure no one takes your point of view seriously. It's the way of the internet, but doesn't make it less annoying.

On the Pav situation, it's pretty obvious that the coaching staff believes he needs more development because of how few minutes he has played during conference season. He does struggle on defense, but in the Texas game he made a few plays on offense when we were pretty stagnant. We get into a rut sometimes on offense where we don't attack the paint or move the ball well. Pav actually penetrates and tries to do something, and our ball movement gets better when he's in there usually. Does it outweigh the defensive deficiencies? Most nights it does not. But I'm completely fine with him getting a few minutes here or there to spell a starter or handle some of the load if we get in deep foul trouble. We're in trouble if we need him 15+ minutes a game though.

 

[madguy30]

Put me on ignore then. I couldn't care less.

The question you should be asking is "why is he a 'broken record'? Usually I bring up things like Pav's play when, you know, it's relevant (because he played 9 minutes when it should be zero) or when geniuses like Statefan keep responding to posts with the "but Pavs isn't that bad" BS without bringing much to the table.

Of all 'counterarguments' posters can make on here, trying to justify Pav's playing time is one of the worst takes one could have. You simply don't play terrible players when you have better players at your disposal. It really shouldn't be that hard for some to grasp.

He just scored 6 points on 3/4 shooting and had three rebounds in a Division 1 basketball game.

How is that terrible?

Why do you make concrete statements about TJ's decisions when you don't know why he makes the decisions?

 

[3TrueFans]

I think the real problem is ZRF presents his opinions (repeatedly) as undeniable facts and completely shoots down an opposing opinion as nonsense. Claiming to want a debate but being unwilling to even entertain an opposing view is a great way to make sure no one takes your point of view seriously. It's the way of the internet, but doesn't make it less annoying.

On the Pav situation, it's pretty obvious that the coaching staff believes he needs more development because of how few minutes he has played during conference season. He does struggle on defense, but in the Texas game he made a few plays on offense when we were pretty stagnant. We get into a rut sometimes on offense where we don't attack the paint or move the ball well. Pav actually penetrates and tries to do something, and our ball movement gets better when he's in there usually. Does it outweigh the defensive deficiencies? Most nights it does not. But I'm completely fine with him getting a few minutes here or there to spell a starter or handle some of the load if we get in deep foul trouble. We're in trouble if we need him 15+ minutes a game though.

While calling our players incompetent and terrible, not a great look. Super douche energy.

 

[t-noah]

Also iirc Gilbert had 3 fouls in the first half or early in the 2nd. If a game is being called weird it's good to have someone who can go in and hold serve and maybe even take on some fouls since they're going to get called anyway.

Pav is a change of pace kind of guy and I would bet there's a scouting report on him that he's very capable of scoring from several places which is a problem since ISU's other three guards are too.

He's a utility guy, much like Watson. Both will see their minutes fluctuate depending on scouting reports/matchups.

Pav has real potential!

 

[NWICY]

Tamin was pretty out of control, especially compared to his usual steadiness. He had those two really bad possessions in the first where he forced action and turned the ball over. He also had one, I believe was in the 2nd, where he was out of control, and lost the ball, only for someone else to pick it up. I think we made a 3 on that possession but it easily could have been, and maybe should have been a turnover.

I thought we were pretty loose with our passes up top. A few times we telegraphed our rotations, Texas anticipated, and came close to getting a few steals. For a road game I thought we (generally) took care of the ball well, but I also think it was worse than the TO numbers indicated. We were fortunate not to get burned quite a few times.

Congratulations on a new stat "close steals"

 

[NWICY]

You have really weird obsession with picking on the guys that play the least amount of minutes every year.

I'm generally fine with Pav sitting but he was fine last night. He did have 1 possession where he wasn't much resistance and someone hit a jump shot over him, but overall he looked good.

Abmas isn't a very big or physical guard so maybe TJ thought it was a good opportunity for him to matchup well.

I don't understand you at all, we just won at a place we've only won twice since the formation of the Big 12 and you're worried about Pav getting 9 minutes?

He just had 6 combined minutes the last 3 games combined and you're complaining he's being used too much.

He's not happy unless he is b*tching.