*** Official #23 BYU vs #10 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

cycloneworld

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Herein lies the problem—this is not the gameplan. We can only assume the coaching staff is trying everything it can to prevent the players from doing this. Otz has talked about ball movement before. But injuries and illnesses preventing guys not only from playing in games but also from practicing is still affecting the team. They don't quite trust each other on passes, and aren't on the same wavelength as far as ballhandlers-not-named-Lipsey and anyone off the ball. Don't take my word for it, everyone should watch the CF video of Otz’s postgame responses. He made no excuses, but said their success early in the season was almost entirely the result of guys "earning it" on the practice court. But in recent months they have not had a full cast in practice, the implication being they haven't been able to "earn it," i.e., extensively prepare to perform at their best in games. We can say "They should be fresh, then!" or "Practices aren't that useful,“ but it's hard to repeatedly plug guys into games who haven't necessarily practiced at full speed—or at all—with the other guys you want to play big minutes.

So, lack of trust/discombobulation -> hesitant and stagnant offense. I’m not saying Otz is Mark Pope, but I can’t get on board with the people saying Schmidt needs to go or that Otz has no idea how to coach offense. These aren't Xs and Os problems IMO. The coaches aren’t telling the players to pass it once, stand around, and have Jefferson take a timid floater or Jones take a long 2.

What last night boils down to is whether you think there's not enough time left for guys to get in sync, or whether they proved to themselves even in a loss that they can lean on their defense when they're struggling on the other end. Those who believe the former may be right. I'm going to hold out hope for the latter because, honestly, last night plus the weather in the Midwest right now has me bummed, but optimism is a choice.

I think you are right on this but TJ and staff haven't held the team accountable when they continue to go against their game plan. It actually happened against Arizona where Gilbert rode the bench for the last 8 minutes and we played great. But that's been the exception rather than the rule.
 

MeowingCows

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This is an honest question because I haven't watched a ton of games outside the Big 12 this year. We still have a Top 30 offense.

Do other teams in the top 30 have lapses like this where they look like it's a struggle to score and aren't even running much of an offense?

I honestly have no idea.
I don't watch a lot of other ball, but some. What I see from other teams above our level is that they'll have moments of lapses, but they're much shorter and much less frequent than ours. Great teams have a guy who can get a bucket when you need one. We lack that greatly. Our offensive scheme seems overly simple compared to most teams, too. We get super stagnant and stop moving the ball (and then frequently turn it over).

The other thing I often see is that other teams are much more reactive about TO usage and other methods to stop opponent runs. We love to wait a really long time before trying to stop momentum.

It also sticks out to me that it seems like we kinda suck in OTs, but maybe that's too harsh.
 

NoCreativity

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I think it's important to look at the big picture and appreciate what TJ has done with this program in only 4 years
He's done great but there's nothing wrong with expecting more when we return our 4 best players from a 2 seed last year.

Four years is a long time in the current college landscape with the portal. Pitino just won a Big East championship in his 2nd year. Louisville was the worst Power 5 team just 12 months ago and are now 16-2 in the ACC.
 

Cloned4Life

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I guess I would push back against a “middle of the pack team” as they were #10 in the AP on Monday and have been a #2 or #3 seed in any reputable mock bracket. They are similar to Texas Tech, Arizona and BYU which is probably a #3 seed, #4 seed and #5 seed respectively. When did a #3 or #4 seed in the tournament become “middle of the pack.”
Alright, so we’re at the top end of middle of the pack :)
 

awd4cy

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Name another team we are competing with for a 3 that has losses as bad as Kansas St and Oklahoma State.

It wasn't just that we lost, we were throughly outplayed by 2 teams under .500.
All the warning signs are there and this teams results remind me of the Bryce Dejean Jones year and how we are playing at the end. Hope they survive the mid major in the 1st round. We are just up and down so we will see what happens.
 
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Cloned4Life

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I can name a lot of teams that would love to be in ISU's position being a program with great fan support, nationally relevant, making sweet 16 runs (and hopefully advancing further soon!!), multiple conference tournament titles, etc

I think it's important to look at the big picture and appreciate what TJ has done with this program in only 4 years
Are there people here “not appreciating” what TJ has done for the program (at a macro level)?
 
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rochclone

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I hate this team. We return the best backcourt in America, supposedly added better front court help, and we are worse than last year.

Just like 2021 in football, all that talent coming back and they are worse. Same thing with Prohms first year. Beat roster we've ever had and even worse than before. Getting tired of it.
I mean I’m not sure how you can post this and then get offended at being called out for trolling behavior. Scroll through your posting history and you see 98% negativity. Comparing this team to any of the disappointments under Prohm is laughable. Let’s see how this thing plays out. There are always challenges with “running it back” due to insane expectations that are felt by the team and fans alike.
 

NENick

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I know this doesn't change where this team sits, but if Love doesn't hit a 60' shot and Jefferson's lay-up last night rolls in and become a 3-point play, things would be looking a lot brighter this morning.
 

fsanford

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This is an honest question because I haven't watched a ton of games outside the Big 12 this year. We still have a Top 30 offense.

Do other teams in the top 30 have lapses like this where they look like it's a struggle to score and aren't even running much of an offense?

I honestly have no idea.
I believe so yes.. Game is much more physical.
Last year only 22 fouls per game on average were called. I suspect numbers are not much higher this year

I mean BYU did not run what looked like offense for last 10 to 12 minutes of the 2nd half lots of 1 on 1.

Mighty Auburn had a long droughts last night.

Scoring in college is similar to the NBA, it's a lot of 3's. That is a like a 35% success rate. You might hit 2 or 3 in a row, but eventually the numbers go back to the mean. Which means scoring droughts. Or you miss some early then hit a few mean moves the other way


ISU's problem was loving the 3 ball for extended periods, not driving or feeding the post.
 

awd4cy

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I know this doesn't change where this team sits, but if Love doesn't hit a 60' shot and Jefferson's lay-up last night rolls in and become a 3-point play, things would be looking a lot brighter this morning.
And if so and so didn’t have the flu and if we didn’t play so many monday games, and if… it’s really all just become a whole heap of excuses. We are what our record is. Still a good team, just not the great team we were all thinking.
 

NENick

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He's done great but there's nothing wrong with expecting more when we return our 4 best players from a 2 seed last year.

Four years is a long time in the current college landscape with the portal. Pitino just won a Big East championship in his 2nd year. Louisville was the worst Power 5 team just 12 months ago and are now 16-2 in the ACC.
What TJ and ISU has done is every bit as good as these 2 examples. Especially considering it's been done in a much tougher conference.

All the warning signs are there and this teams results remind me of the Bryce Dejean Jones year and how we are playing at the end. Hope they survive the mid major in the 1st round. We are just up and down so we will see what happens.
There is no comparison between this team and what went on at the end of that season!
 

fsanford

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He's done great but there's nothing wrong with expecting more when we return our 4 best players from a 2 seed last year.

Four years is a long time in the current college landscape with the portal. Pitino just won a Big East championship in his 2nd year. Louisville was the worst Power 5 team just 12 months ago and are now 16-2 in the ACC.
ACC is a mid major these days. But your other comments are fair.
 

dahliaclone

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Was it a mirage that we were actually a top 5 or even top ten team? Possibly. Top five I think for sure is a no. Top ten I think is up for debate. I do think we are a top 15 team even with our struggles.

Does it suck we lost games we should have maybe won? Absolutely. Does it suck that we didn’t play the first half like we did the second half? Yes it’s frustrating.

Is our ceiling sweet 16? Maybe. But I guess I’m one that thinks that’s a great season. But it’s also a crapshoot once you hit the tourney regardless how your regular season went.

Disagree with me on this but in a one and done tournament we are still capable of doing damage. Yes we are also capable of being upset. That’s the nature of the tourney. There have been great regular season teams (not just Iowa state) that get upset all the time. And there are teams that struggled in regular season that hit a groove and go far.

We are in year four with TJ after going 2-22 before he arrived with a team that has been top ten all year and if we do make the sweet sixteen would be three sweet sixteens in his first four years. Given our history i can be nothing but thrilled given the circumstances.

Doesn’t mean I’m not frustrated. We are likely a 4 seed now and that sucks but it’s where we are. Can tell you this though. Any 1 seed that sees us as a 4 won’t be thrilled.

Get a team like ours in the tourney against teams that haven’t played us and we can make a run. Struggle like we have and we can be early exit. But like I said that’s the tourney regardless for any team.
 

Cloned4Life

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All the warning signs are there and this teams results remind me of the Bryce Dejean Jones year and how we are playing at the end. Hope they survive the mid major in the 1st round. We are just up and down so we will see what happens.
Yeah I think it is very clear “what” / “who” the team is now.

I don’t think it’s really even logical (or fair) to think our ceiling is still a “deep run”. The team isn’t close to what we thought it was in November/December/early January.
 
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fsanford

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Yeah I think it is very clear “what” / “who” the team is now.

I don’t think it’s really even logical (or fair) to think our ceiling is still a “deep run”. The team isn’t close to what we thought it was in November/December/early January.
For now...but does not take much to get on a heater
 
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CoachHines3

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Name another team we are competing with for a 3 that has losses as bad as Kansas St and Oklahoma State.

It wasn't just that we lost, we were throughly outplayed by 2 teams under .500.
Iowa State has 1 Q2 loss (Ok St) and 1 Q3 loss (K-State) Thats the bad one

TTech has 1 Q2 loss and 1 Q3 loss

Mostly all teams we are battling the 2 seeds for has a Q2 loss, just like us. Wisconsin has 0 Q2/Q3 losses, though.

The Q3 loss stands out a little bit, though.

I know, I know, quads aren't everything but that is the baseline for quality wins/losses.

FWIW, we are still 9th in NET.
 

Cyhig

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He's done great but there's nothing wrong with expecting more when we return our 4 best players from a 2 seed last year.

Four years is a long time in the current college landscape with the portal. Pitino just won a Big East championship in his 2nd year. Louisville was the worst Power 5 team just 12 months ago and are now 16-2 in the ACC.
And even with the ever changing landscape, Otz has this program routinely in position for tournament runs. How many other programs can say that?
 
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Cloned4Life

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Was it a mirage that we were actually a top 5 or even top ten team? Possibly. Top five I think for sure is a no. Top ten I think is up for debate. I do think we are a top 15 team even with our struggles.

Does it suck we lost games we should have maybe won? Absolutely. Does it suck that we didn’t play the first half like we did the second half? Yes it’s frustrating.

Is our ceiling sweet 16? Maybe. But I guess I’m one that thinks that’s a great season. But it’s also a crapshoot once you hit the tourney regardless how your regular season went.

Disagree with me on this but in a one and done tournament we are still capable of doing damage. Yes we are also capable of being upset. That’s the nature of the tourney. There have been great regular season teams (not just Iowa state) that get upset all the time. And there are teams that struggled in regular season that hit a groove and go far.

We are in year four with TJ after going 2-22 before he arrived with a team that has been top ten all year and if we do make the sweet sixteen would be three sweet sixteens in his first four years. Given our history i can be nothing but thrilled given the circumstances.

Doesn’t mean I’m not frustrated. We are likely a 4 seed now and that sucks but it’s where we are. Can tell you this though. Any 1 seed that sees us as a 4 won’t be thrilled.

Get a team like ours in the tourney against teams that haven’t played us and we can make a run. Struggle like we have and we can be early exit. But like I said that’s the tourney regardless for any team.
I think you make a lot of valid points.

The bold part though is where, in my opinion, our fans are a bit overly misguided or optimistic.

IMHO, we are not a difficult scout. Teams like Miami, Pitt, Illinois - they pressure our guards, packed the lane, and that was that. Sure, if we shoot well, we can beat anyone. But I’m not seeing a ton of evidence lately that we can consistently get open looks. Arizona was the exception, and even then we of course had a terrible stretch in the second half where we went from up 24 to only up 9.

I think we do play “tough defense” for stretches. I don’t think this team plays tough defense for long enough stretches.

7-7 in our last 14 games. And even if it is because of injuries, the reality is - the losses have taken their toll.
 
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