***Official Montgomery and Butler NFL Thread***

[jbindm]

I was looking through all of the Big XII results. Another person really stood out that I had not seen. Holy cow Ben Banogu from TCU!!!!

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Board/105475/Contents/NFL-Combine-Results-129739311/

He was tops in the League with a 40" Vertical Jump AND 134" Broad Jump (6" more than Butler). Between two WR's in the cone drill. AND he ran a 4.62 sec 40 yard dash all while measuring 250 lbs!...

There were some bonkers 40 times this year. Montez Sweat's 4.41 time was unbelievable. He's 6'6, 260. Human beings that large just shouldn't be able to move that fast.

 

[ArgentCy]

A DL leading the league in vertical jump and broad jump seems even more unbelievable. But, yeah, these guys are physical freaks. If only TCU had any offense last year...

 

[Dandy]

Updated Mock from NFL.com which Colin Cowherd said was the best he's seen...

No Butler in the 1st.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-2019-nfl-mock-draft-20-cards-go-kyler-murray

 

[Cyclonepride]

Updated Mock from NFL.com which Colin Cowherd said was the best he's seen...

No Butler in the 1st.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-2019-nfl-mock-draft-20-cards-go-kyler-murray

All that means is that Colin agreed with it.

 

[jbindm]

All that means is that Colin agreed with it.

And it's still too early for the mocks to have much weight to them anyway. It's still guesswork even right before the draft but with free agency coming up and pro days and player interviews there is a long way to go. Lots of team priorities could change between now and then.

 

[ArgentCy]

Kyler Murrary #1 and another QB pick. Lol @ Cardinals if they actually did that. At least trade that pick down.

That would not be anywhere close to my 1st round but I did only watch the first day of the combine. Two TE's from out east in the 1st round would make me puke.

 

[jbindm]

Kyler Murrary #1 and another QB pick. Lol @ Cardinals if they actually did that. At least trade that pick down.

What's really bad is the buzz around what they could get for Rosen if they decide Murray is their guy. They traded UP last year to get Rosen and based on league chatter they'd be lucky to get a third rounder for him now.

I don't know what to make of Rosen. Last year I think I had him third or fourth in the Mayfield/Allen/Jackson/Rosen/Darnold group. He looked bad last season but so did everyone else who played for Arizona. So is he a bust or was he just stuck in a bad spot? If I was running a team and had an established QB in place and a surplus of draft picks I'd throw a fourth rounder at the Cardinals for him. Nice buy-low developmental QB.

 

[Daserop]

And it's still too early for the mocks to have much weight to them anyway. It's still guesswork even right before the draft but with free agency coming up and pro days and player interviews there is a long way to go. Lots of team priorities could change between now and then.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Daserop]

I find it ridiculous how one players flaws have not effect on their draft status, yet for other's it's huge. There's so much hypocrisy.

For example D.K. Metcalf's game tape, and combine results, prove that he has big issues with change of direction, he's had two separate season ending injuries, and a high drop rate. Yet, he's an assumed 1st round pick. Yet with Hakeem, nope.

Also, note that this season he only played in the first 7 games.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/hakeem-butler?id=32194255-5416-1833-e211-34b9abca1909

 

[wheels686]

I found it interesting when the GM for the Packers was interviewed at the combine he said they already had their boards done but may do alittle tweaking after the combine. That means they use game tape and don't over react to what happends at the combine.

I'm curious how many teams boards fluctuate that much. As long as you don't perform horribly I don't think you would move that much.

 

[jbindm]

I found it interesting when the GM for the Packers was interviewed at the combine he said they already had their boards done but may do alittle tweaking after the combine. That means they use game tape and don't over react to what happends at the combine.

I'm curious how many teams boards fluctuate that much. As long as you don't perform horribly I don't think you would move that much.

I don't think any player moves up or down boards directly based off their combine numbers anyway. If a player exceeds or comes up short of how they're expected to perform in the drills then it'll prompt another look at the game tape to see if they missed something. But no team (at least not one with a competent front office) is going to take DK Metcalf or Montez Sweat solely because of their 40 times.

I don't entirely believe Gutekunst either when he says their board is more or less set. I don't see how that could be when they have yet to go through free agency or bring draft prospects in for workouts/interviews.

 

[isubeatle]

I was just watching some of Butlers highlights because they're so much fun to watch and he is just a freak and i have a question. How is he able to get out of tackles so often when he makes those huge contested catches?

There's highlight after highlight of him making a huge jumping catch and then 2-3 guys can't bring him down and he runs in for a TD. Shouldn't his height make him easy to knock down? his center of gravity is pretty high yup yet he has the the strength and grace to break free and not fall over.

 

[VeloClone]

I don't think any player moves up or down boards directly based off their combine numbers anyway. If a player exceeds or comes up short of how they're expected to perform in the drills then it'll prompt another look at the game tape to see if they missed something. But no team (at least not one with a competent front office) is going to take DK Metcalf or Montez Sweat solely because of their 40 times.

I don't entirely believe Gutekunst either when he says their board is more or less set. I don't see how that could be when they have yet to go through free agency or bring draft prospects in for workouts/interviews.

Maybe I don't understand it correctly but I have been able to see an old NBA board and it was more comprehensive than just the draft. It included players that they might be interested in through free agency and players who they would be interested in trading for and their relative values. A lot more happens on draft day than just picking players from those outside the league. Obviously as a need is satisfied through FA or a trade it will mean comparable players moving in the draft (and other) sections. These things might happen before the draft or they might happen during the draft. Again, this was an NBA board, but I have to imagine that the NFL organizations do something similar. The more prepared you are for every eventuality, the more successful you are likely to be.

 

[ArgentCy]

I find it ridiculous how one players flaws have not effect on their draft status, yet for other's it's huge. There's so much hypocrisy.

For example D.K. Metcalf's game tape, and combine results, prove that he has big issues with change of direction, he's had two separate season ending injuries, and a high drop rate. Yet, he's an assumed 1st round pick. Yet with Hakeem, nope.

Also, note that this season he only played in the first 7 games.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/hakeem-butler?id=32194255-5416-1833-e211-34b9abca1909

It's hard for people to give up their bias. Especially when you are talking about the $EC.

 

[jbindm]

Maybe I don't understand it correctly but I have been able to see an old NBA board and it was more comprehensive than just the draft. It included players that they might be interested in through free agency and players who they would be interested in trading for and their relative values. A lot more happens on draft day than just picking players from those outside the league. Obviously as a need is satisfied through FA or a trade it will mean comparable players moving in the draft (and other) sections. These things might happen before the draft or they might happen during the draft. Again, this was an NBA board, but I have to imagine that the NFL organizations do something similar. The more prepared you are for every eventuality, the more successful you are likely to be.

Right. I find it hard to believe that the day after the combine a team's board is "done". Some pretty big dominoes are going to fall in free agency and it's going to impact a team's strategy come draft day. Suppose Antonio Brown or LeVeon Bell land in the NFC North? Now all of a sudden you maybe have a more urgent need in the secondary or front seven to account for that. And what if a player on your board shows up for an interview and can't diagnose a play or retain a playbook to save his life? I'm sure a board exists for every team by now, but I would also expect that said board will be in some flux for the next couple months.

 

[I-stateTheTruth]

Kyler Murrary #1 and another QB pick. Lol @ Cardinals if they actually did that. At least trade that pick down.

That would not be anywhere close to my 1st round but I did only watch the first day of the combine. Two TE's from out east in the 1st round would make me puke.

Those two TE's are showing up in a lot of 1st and 2nd round mock drafts. I don't know enough of the history but one school having 2 TE's in the 1st must be extremely rare.

I'm not seeing Hakeem in the 1st in the mocks I've seen. Based on what I've read - not what I claim to know - DM and HB seem to be 2nd-to-4th types, as of now.

 

[VeloClone]

Right. I find it hard to believe that the day after the combine a team's board is "done". Some pretty big dominoes are going to fall in free agency and it's going to impact a team's strategy come draft day. Suppose Antonio Brown or LeVeon Bell land in the NFC North? Now all of a sudden you maybe have a more urgent need in the secondary or front seven to account for that. And what if a player on your board shows up for an interview and can't diagnose a play or retain a playbook to save his life? I'm sure a board exists for every team by now, but I would also expect that said board will be in some flux for the next couple months.

I think you are taking his use of the word "done" a bit too literally. A board is a guide not a script of plays. As things change actions are dictated by the board of priorities and what the new realities are of the moment. A board my have Joe Smith as the team's first running back. If they bring him in and he is dumber than a box of hammers they might drop him off their board but backs 2 through x remain on the board and likely in the same order. If Smith is instead drafted by another team backs 2 through x remain on the board and likely in the same order.

I would say that a draft board is never totally done until just after the last pick is made in the draft. It is constantly changing. But by "done" at this point I would think it means that the board is fully created, fully populated and ready to be used and adjusted as new information is acquired and/or different opportunities present themselves.

 

[Dandy]

I find it ridiculous how one players flaws have not effect on their draft status, yet for other's it's huge. There's so much hypocrisy.

For example D.K. Metcalf's game tape, and combine results, prove that he has big issues with change of direction, he's had two separate season ending injuries, and a high drop rate. Yet, he's an assumed 1st round pick. Yet with Hakeem, nope.

Also, note that this season he only played in the first 7 games.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/d.k.-metcalf?id=32194d45-5436-3377-5806-d2746f1b94aa
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/hakeem-butler?id=32194255-5416-1833-e211-34b9abca1909

Scouts and GMs get boners over ridiculous 40 times. John Ross went 9th overall in 2017 because he ran the fastest 40 ever. And the Bengals are trying to trade him this spring.

DK Metcalf is jacked out of his mind but he had a cone drill time slower than his 40 which is RARE in a bad way. Yet he's projected like top ten in recent drafts.

 

[Daserop]

Scouts and GMs get boners over ridiculous 40 times. John Ross went 9th overall in 2017 because he ran the fastest 40 ever. And the Bengals are trying to trade him this spring.

DK Metcalf is jacked out of his mind but he had a cone drill time slower than his 40 which is RARE in a bad way. Yet he's projected like top ten in recent drafts.

I'll take half of what they are paid and sounds like I'd do a better job at wading through all the ********.

 

[dfwcy]

Those two TE's are showing up in a lot of 1st and 2nd round mock drafts. I don't know enough of the history but one school having 2 TE's in the 1st must be extremely rare.

I'm not seeing Hakeem in the 1st in the mocks I've seen. Based on what I've read - not what I claim to know - DM and HB seem to be 2nd-to-4th types, as of now.

Pretty sure it has never happened before.