NBA: Should LeBron James be compared to Michael Jordan?

[Clones85']

The Sonics team in 96 was a great team. And I would say it could match up against any of three the teams the Heat have played in the finals.

That Sonics team couldn't beat the Spurs or last year OKC team IMO. I'd even take the Mavs over them but that's a close series. Ah maybe I'd take the Sonics. That's a good debate. I'm just very high on Nowtizki and Chandler being very underrated down low.

 

[Clones85']

Who said Wade was hurt the entire year?

Wade in the playoffs:

14 ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 44% shooting.

Was he one of 4 players to do that as well?

It's not just his offense that has taken a hit either.

Him being hurt doesn't mean the roster now stinks. All in all, the Heat are the healthiest team in the playoffs this year of the contenders. OKC, Chicago, GS, Indiana all had key injuries to studs. Parker is just as hurt as Wade.

 

[HFCS]

Who said Wade was hurt the entire year?

Wade in the playoffs:

14 ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 44% shooting.

Was he one of 4 players to do that as well?

It's not just his offense that has taken a hit either.

The Wade 'playing bad' this playoffs argument does absolutely nothing to explain LeBron's statistically historic choke two years ago though. Wade's stats that finals were better than any Pippen ever had playing with Jordan.

2011 Finals Wade: 26.5 points, 7 assists, 5.2 boards, 54.6% from the field, great defense

I get conflicted when people use Bosh and Wade as an excuse for why LeBron isn't as dominant as Jordan was. LeBron voluntarily packaged himself with these two max guys and somewhat connected his fate to theirs. The Clippers and Bulls among others were complete rosters ready to dominate by adding LeBron and had cap space to add LeBron and even more talent. A few other teams too. These three chose to be some sort of player/GM hybrid.

 

[Gravy79]

The road to the finals through the East was ridiculously tougher than this year's Milwaukee-Chicago 3rd/4th string-Indiana youngbloods pretty much every season. With the exception of the two Jazz teams the finals competition in the West wasn't as good as Dirk's prime year or a Spurs Finals team though. If the Bulls had ever matched up against the two Rockets finals teams I'd say the overall competition was tougher and the Finals competition was even.

You are smokin something. The spurs team was very good but the Mavs team wasn't any better than the Sonics or the Lakers.

 

[Jordanj6502]

Jordan led the league in steals 3 times, won DPOY as a SG, only player to twice have 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, only Scottie and Hakeem have done it once.

 

[Gravy79]

That Sonics team couldn't beat the Spurs or last year OKC team IMO. I'd even take the Mavs over them but that's a close series. Ah maybe I'd take the Sonics. That's a good debate. I'm just very high on Nowtizki and Chandler being very underrated down low.

The Sonics team featured Payton and Kemp in their prime and another all star in Schrempf. They would have beat a young OKC team.

 

[Clark]

The Wade 'playing bad' this playoffs argument does absolutely nothing to explain LeBron's statistically historic choke two years ago though. Wade's stats that finals were better than any Pippen ever had playing with Jordan.

2011 Finals Wade: 26.5 points, 7 assists, 5.2 boards, 54.6% from the field, great defense

I get conflicted when people use Bosh and Wade as an excuse for why LeBron isn't as dominant as Jordan was. LeBron voluntarily packaged himself with these two max guys and somewhat connected his fate to theirs. The Clippers and Bulls among others were complete rosters ready to dominate by adding LeBron and had cap space to add LeBron and even more talent. A few other teams too. These three chose to be some sort of player/GM hybrid.

What does Lebron's 2011 finals performance have to do with Wade's 2013 playoffs performance? Where in my post did I bring up LeBron at all? How did you refute in any way the point I made in that post?

 

[Clark]

Him being hurt doesn't mean the roster now stinks. All in all, the Heat are the healthiest team in the playoffs this year of the contenders. OKC, Chicago, GS, Indiana all had key injuries to studs. Parker is just as hurt as Wade.

lol ok. Parker is averaging more points, with the same number of assists and rebounds as he did during the regular season but sure what the heck, we'll go with your analysis that he's just as hurt as Wade. It's not like I can disprove it.

 

[klamath632]

LeBron is already 28. He has probably 4 more solid years in him til he starts slowing down. When MJ got old he could rely on his sweet jump shot and fade away. LeBron does NOT have that and won't have that when he gets older and slower.

Actually I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. For evidence, Karl Malone. When he first came into the league, he was a banger who couldn't do anything outside of six feet. He regularly ran over people on his way to the basket, he was a bull in a china shop.

He developed his jump shot and became deadly with it late in his career. He also raised his FT% from around 55% as a rookie to 75%. If you watched him his rookie year, you had no clue that you were watching a future Top 50 and Hall of Famer.

I'll bet LBJ doesn't have Karl Malone's work ethic (because face it, who does?) but I know he has the ability to improve his jump shot every year.

 

[Cy$]

here's the deal.

LeBron has never had a man in his life to guide him. His mother had to take care of him.

Michael Jordan always had great support throughout his life, had Dean Smith even at North Carolina to guide him through his college years.

The Greats have something in common, they all had great coaches.Magic, Kareem were under Riley's tutelage. Bird was under Auerbach. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant and Scottie Pippen played under Phil Jackson. Duncan and Robinson under Poppovich. The list goes on and on.

Who have been LeBron's coaches? Well, you got Mike Brown, who got fired from the Lakers and Cavs. You got Spoelstra, who when he didn't have LeBron, was a loser and couldn't get Wade past the first round.

It's obvious what the common denominator is in LeBron not quite reaching GOAT status, it's that he's never had a coach to lead him to his true potential and to break out of his mental shell.

Can you guys imagine LeBron with Poppovich, Jackson, or even Pat Riley (you can debate whether he's actually coaching the team currently, but that's for another time).

Until LeBron realizes Spoelstra is holding him back, he won't come close to Jordan. If Jordan was coached by such coaching legends as Spoelstra or Mike Brown, who knows if he's even close to making the GOAT list. I bet he wouldn't.

I see nobody wants to fake debate this. Must be too awesome of a post.

 

[Clark]

Actually I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. For evidence, Karl Malone. When he first came into the league, he was a banger who couldn't do anything outside of six feet. He regularly ran over people on his way to the basket, he was a bull in a china shop.

He developed his jump shot and became deadly with it late in his career. He also raised his FT% from around 55% as a rookie to 75%. If you watched him his rookie year, you had no clue that you were watching a future Top 50 and Hall of Famer.

I'll bet LBJ doesn't have Karl Malone's work ethic (because fact it, who does?) but I know he has the ability to improve his jump shot every year.

James shot over 40 % from three and just under 50% from long two's this year (thanks Zack Lowe).

Yet another reason to disregard anything 21 posts.

 

[Clark]

I see nobody wants to fake debate this. Must be too awesome of a post.

It's a pretty valid argument, and that's coming from someone who doesn't think that Spo is a terrible coach.

 

[Clones85']

lol ok. Parker is averaging more points, with the same number of assists and rebounds as he did during the regular season but sure what the heck, we'll go with your analysis that he's just as hurt as Wade. It's not like I can disprove it.

Parker has missed more games than Wade. He's been hampered by the hamstring off and on for months now.

Parker in the finals so far. 13.3 ppg, 6.3 assists, 1.7 rebounds, 0.3 steals in 33 minutes
Wade in the finals so far. 14.3 ppg, 4.3 assists, 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 steals in 34 minutes

Parker is the Spurs best player and Wade is the Heats 2nd best player....but yeah Lebron doesn't have a good supporting cast around him. His roster is soooo weak.

 

[klamath632]

It's a pretty valid argument, and that's coming from someone who doesn't think that Spo is a terrible coach.

I'll accept the argument as a possible explanation. It seems to me that LBJ has never had anybody to tell him "No." MJ dealt with strong authority figures throughout his career. It could have spurred him to greater heights than he otherwise would have. It's possible.

 

[Clones85']

I'll accept the argument as a possible explanation. It seems to me that LBJ has never had anybody to tell him "No." MJ dealt with strong authority figures throughout his career. It could have spurred him to greater heights than he otherwise would have. It's possible.

Lebron never failed at anything in his life until he was 23 or so, and even than he made it to the NBA finals and could use his poor supporting cast to fall back on.

Jordan failed at an early age and was able to get a chip on his shoulder b/c of it.

Failing is key to succeeding.

 

[Cyclonesince78]

yet the "vets" like you just ignore Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

Jordan may indeed be the best basketball player ever, but it's far from an easy pick and certainly not the "I can't even believe we're discussing this" level of animosity that some of you freakin Chicago fans are throwing around.

It can't be that tough of a pick, just look at MJ's bio on nba.com.

Legends profile: Michael Jordan | NBA.com

"By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time."

I've never heard of any other sport making having a statement like that about any of their players. So what is a "far from an easy pick" for you, isn't necessarily the case if the official homepage of the NBA will put that in his bio.

 

[HFCS]

You are smokin something. The spurs team was very good but the Mavs team wasn't any better than the Sonics or the Lakers.

I'm trying to throw a bone here or there to show I'm not some blind homer

I have a feeling we're arguing with people who didn't even see what we're arguing about. Probably makes as much sense as listening to them argue that a rhino is stronger than a T rex.

 

[HFCS]

What does Lebron's 2011 finals performance have to do with Wade's 2013 playoffs performance? Where in my post did I bring up LeBron at all? How did you refute in any way the point I made in that post?

So you want to argue that LeBron is GOAT...what the whole thread is about...and then ignore his most disastrous flop?

 

[Clark]

Parker has missed more games than Wade. He's been hampered by the hamstring off and on for months now.

Parker in the finals so far. 13.3 ppg, 6.3 assists, 1.7 rebounds, 0.3 steals in 33 minutes
Wade in the finals so far. 14.3 ppg, 4.3 assists, 1.3 rebounds, 1.7 steals in 34 minutes

Parker is the Spurs best player and Wade is the Heats 2nd best player....but yeah Lebron doesn't have a good supporting cast around him. His roster is soooo weak.

I don't believe I've said that his roster is weak, just pointed out that without a healthy Wade, it probably isn't the best roster in the league. Teams are literally playing off him like he was Tony Allen.

And the Spurs can overcome Paker having an off game when two role players combine for 50 points and a crazy shooting night. I don't care how well James, Wade, or anyone else plays if Green and Neal continue to make 13 out of 19 threes a game it isn't going to matter.

 

[HFCS]

yet the "vets" like you just ignore Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

Jordan may indeed be the best basketball player ever, but it's far from an easy pick and certainly not the "I can't even believe we're discussing this" level of animosity that some of you freakin Chicago fans are throwing around.

I don't ignore them, in the "greatest" thread I had Russel, Wilt and Oscar Robertson in my top five along with Jordan and Duncan. If LeBron wins this title I said I'd bump Roberston for him but I still don't consider him remotely in the discussion for being better than MJ, not even close.

This is not a discussion...because it's not, in going 6-0 in finals:
31-7-11
36-5-7
41-9-6
27-5-4
32-7-6
34-4-2

LeBron's 2011 Finals stats with his most talented team were the biggest drop off by any player ever. Through three games this year:
17-12-9, again an 8 point point scoring dropoff from his ho-hum regular season game

GOAT's do not drastically decrease their scoring when it matters most multiple times in different NBA finals. Pick that you're a contrarian, Heat fan, or too young to have watched MJ. Those are the only three that make sense.