Some scouting on Virginia from a Hoo

Hoondog

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Sorry to make my first posting a new thread, but I spent some time writing this up, and none of the other threads seemed exactly right for it. This is some information on Virginia's basketball team. I'd love it if others on this board gave me some insights on your team, as well.

Cheers!

About the University of Virginia basketball team

I’ve read parts of some of the chatter on this board about UVA’s basketball team, and of course there are some that know more than others, but I haven’t seen a comprehensive approach, and there’s a lot of misinformation on this board. You’d expect that. You’ve had no reason to watch much Virginia basketball this year, as I’ve had little reason to watch Iowa State ball. I’ve seen parts of a few of your games, but that’s not enough to form much of a scouting report on you.

So, this is a fairly comprehensive look at the Virginia team. I hope it will help you enjoy the game more, knowing more about the tactics that are being used to play to strengths and exploit weaknesses.

Overview

You’ll hear us called the “Hoos†instead of the “Cavaliers†a lot. The informal name for all Virginia sports teams is the “Wahoos,†and we usually shorten this to just “Hoos.†The origin of the name isn’t very interesting, so I won’t go into that, here.

UVA fans have always been passionate about basketball. Though roughly 1/3 of UVA alumni are from out of state, those of us who grew up in Virginia lived and breathed ACC basketball as kids. Many of us played on outdoor, blacktop courts in the dead of winter, barely able to see by the light of street lamps or feel our fingers in the cold. For various reasons I won’t get into here, UVA didn’t field a good basketball team until the early 70s, then went to a couple of final fours in the early 80s, then had good-but-not-elite teams through most of the 90s, and fell upon hard times in the new millennium with a couple of not-so-great coaching hires. Tony Bennett has revived the program.

Dispelling Some Myths

1. Virginia slows it down: Actually, we rarely intentionally slow it down. We play intense, half-court defense on one end that tends to reduce possessions because it usually takes a bit longer than average for the opposing team to get a reasonable shot, and we work hard on the offensive end to get a good percentage shot, which usually takes time. But on a steal or long rebound, we’ll run. What you’ll rarely see us do on offense, though, is attempt to take it to the hoop when we don’t have numbers on a break. So, something that looks like a break will be pulled back out into a half-court offense if, in the ball-handler’s judgment, we don’t have a significant advantage that would lead to a high-percentage shot. Still, you’ll hear over and over from the analysts that we “slow it down.†If we do, it’s only in the interest of improving offensive efficiency. It’s a side effect of a different motive.

2. We get a lot of offensive rebounds: Don’t know why this has been floating around on this board, but we don’t, and we don’t try to. The UVA defense (more on that defense, below) is designed to hinder the ability to score easy baskets. When a shot goes up on offense, at least three, and often four, guys immediately run back to the defensive end, leaving only one or two Hoos to attempt an offensive rebound. Sometimes they succeed, but we’re not going to send three or four guys to the offensive glass and give up the transition bucket. Bennett trades offensive rebounds for stopping an opposing team’s transition offense (most times, anyway).

3. We get a lot of steals: There have been some games where this was true, but that’s not the focus of the defense. The Hoos give up the benefits of trying to jump passing lanes or make steals off the dribble in order to stay in position and either force sub-optimal shots, or bother shooters on good ones. This isn’t an absolute, of course. We’ll attempt to strip the ball when someone drives into a scrum in the lane, and we’ll take advantage of a really bad pass, but you won’t often see our players make an attempt and get out of position, allowing the opposing team to take advantage of a momentary five-on-four situation.

4. Virginia’s starters are good, but the bench is suspect: We go nine deep against most teams, and sometimes go ten deep as the need arises. Our bench is actually pretty decent and Hoo fans generally consider it a strength of this team. We don’t have a bunch of Burger Boys stashed there but, other than Duke and Kentucky most years, who does?

5. Once you get past the three main scorers, the rest of the team isn’t much of a threat: This is true of most teams in the nation, of course, but it’s a bit misleading in Virginia’s case. Generally, the team takes what you give them. If an opposing team is dead set on shutting down one of our players, as has happened several times this season, another player usually gets opportunities. So, I suspect that the standard deviation in scoring for our non-marquee players is higher than for most teams. We have some guys who don’t score much except in those situations when they have mismatches because of an opposing team’s focus, elsewhere. They’re usually pretty capable of exploiting that. More on individual players, below.

The Defense

This is what the pundits will talk about ad nauseum, so I might as well start here. As you probably know, Virginia plays the pack-line defense, which was invented by **** Bennett, Tony Bennett’s dad. The pack-line has been described a number of ways, but I think the best description is that it’s a help-out, man-to-man defense that sometimes takes on characteristics of a zone. The basics are pretty well known. Defenders try to stay within an imaginary line about 17’ or so from the basket unless they are guarding the man with the ball. It’s sort of like an amoeba, with the body of the amoeba being inside that line and a pod shot out to guard the ball. The idea is to limit the other team’s ability to drive and kick out and get points in the paint. The trade-off is that this sometimes opens up the deep three, since it takes a hair longer to close out on a catch-and-shoot player.

There are two wrinkles you might want to look for: the hedge and the double-team in the post.
On the hedge, a big man sets a screen in the direction the ball-handler is moving, usually off a ball screen by the offensive team. This double-teams the ball-handler for a short period of time, and sometimes the hedger will move quite a ways with the ball handler before running back to his defensive assignment. When this happens, the other three Hoos will move into passing lanes to deny the pass to an open man for an easy bucket. When the hedger run back off the hedge, the pack-line will adjust to its base concept.

On the double-team in the post, the two bigs will get up close and personal with the big man with the ball, setting a wall with the baseline being an additional defender. The other Hoos will adjust their assignments, leaving an open man on the off-ball side at the wing. So, the big being double-teamed has an opportunity to pass over the two defenders to the wing for an open shot, but that’s very hard to do. Another opportunity for the offensive team is to send someone diving to the bucket, getting a bounce pass from the big with the ball. That worked for some teams early in the season, but when the pack-line is being played well, that option generally isn’t available. And our defense has improved throughout the year.

The Offense

We set a lot of screens. And I mean “a lot.†We use a modified blocker-mover offense with the blockers moving to the hoop on pick and rolls. The idea is to both get open shots and to wear out defenders by making them fight through screen after screen all night long. Coupled with defensive intensity, this approach has worn out a lot of teams this year, making them susceptible to a Virginia run from the mid-to-late part of the second half. Teams that have done well against us are generally deep and have coaches who manage their rotations to make sure key guys have plenty of gas at the end of the game.

We also have some slashers and are physical in the blocks. We tend to get in the paint a fair amount, which usually leads to a fairly easy bucket of some sort.
We shoot a bit better than 40% from three, but that’s a bit misleading because we don’t shoot all that many threes. The high percentage is because the ones we do shoot are generally good, open shots.

Bennett believes in recruiting combo guards, so there will be times when we’ll have three guys on the floor who are all legitimate point guards, and have played that position for us from time to time, even if it’s not their primary role.

The Hoos will concentrate on blocking out on the defensive boards, which is one of the reasons we don’t run all that much. It’s hard to get a lot of offensive rebounds against us. Most of the ones opponents do get are when players leave their feet to block a shot in the paint, or when long rebounds go over our heads.

The Players (Starters)

Malcolm Brogdon: Might as well start with him, since he’ll get all the hype. As you’ll hear over and over again (undoubtedly), he’s the ACC player of the year as well as the ACC defensive player of the year and, of course, first team all-ACC as well as a finalist for a number of national awards. He’s the first to receive both the ACC MVP and defensive player of the year awards in the same year. He’s quiet. There’s not any flash. He shoots around 40% from three and drives the basket well. He also has a fall-away, mid-range shot and a floater that are pretty accurate. He plays a smart game, positions himself well, knows how to use screens, is a very good passer, is 6’ 5†and very strong. He can and does post up smaller guards, and has done an excellent job defending larger players this year when called upon to do so. I’d tell you about his weaknesses, but he really doesn’t have any.

On the other hand, he doesn’t really have a go-to strength, either. If he were a tennis player, he’d be that guy who gets to every shot, plays the angles beautifully, rarely makes an unforced error, is good at every shot, and beats almost everyone without having a superb “weapon†in his arsenal.

Anthony Gill: He’s 6’ 8â€, very strong, loves contact, and finishes well around the basket with a soft shot. He can shoot out to about 8’ or so, and has hit some shots from around the foul line this year, but that’s not his forte. He’s a very good, but not elite, defender, and good on the free throw line. He has a high motor. If you can push him out a ways from the basket, he will often shoot from a bit beyond his range which reduces his offensive efficiency. Third team all-ACC.

London Perrantes: He’s our starting point guard. Once again, he’s not flashy, but he has a really good floor sense, a very good assist-to-turnover ratio, and is a great floor general. He’s shooting around 50% from three, this year, but doesn’t take that many shots, and only rarely hunts his shot. He can drive the bucket, but at only 6’2â€, he’s at a disadvantage when doing that, most times. He’s a good defender but not elite, and he often gives up height in the ACC to other guards. He’s not as quick as some elite point guards, but the pack-line gives plenty of help to reduce penetration by opposing guards. He’s had a disturbing tendency this year (and not in past years) to throw lazy passes that turn into pick sixes. Honorable mention all-ACC.

Isaiah Wilkins: 6’7, which is a bit undersized for the 4. He has a very, very high motor, is very athletic and strong, and can finish around the basket or out to around 18’, though his sweet spot for a jumper is about 15’. He’s deadly from that range, and often gets an open shot when our guards touch the paint and the defense collapses. He’s quick to loose balls and is an excellent passer, and is especially good against a 2-3 zone, so he’s a Syracuse killer. No real weaknesses except his height, perhaps, but he’s a role player at this stage of his career (he’s a soph), so you’re not likely to hear his name called all that much.

Devon Hall: 6’5†converted point guard. He’s a redshirt soph because he left his class to start at UVA early because we were in desperate need of a point guard. No one knew, at that time, that London Perrantes was coming or that he would be as good as his is right from his freshman year. So, Devon redshirted and is now in his third year with the program. He’s athletic, can drive the basket, has a decent three-point shot when he’s open, and passes … well … like a point guard. He has had some games where he was instrumental in getting the win, but he has a tendency to force some shots – at least it’s seemed this way in our tourney games this year. He’s quick, strong, and a good defender. (BTW, almost all of our players are very strong. That’s by design, both in recruiting and in training.)

(The Bench)

Mike Tobey:
7’0â€. He’s our true 5. He’s very skilled, offensively. His best game this year was on senior night against Louisville, where he pulled down 20 rebounds and scored 15 points. He’s capable of taking over a game or of disappearing, which is hard to do for a 7-footer. He’s at a defensive disadvantage against smaller, quicker bigs, and he’s had a tendency to get into foul trouble, often by committing dumb fouls. He has seemed to improve his consistency and smarts since senior night, though. He will spell Anthony Gill, and will probably enter the game fairly early.
Marial Shayock: 6’5â€. Canadian. He’s a great athlete and has some serious offensive skills, including from both three and driving to the bucket. His defense is improving a lot, recently. He can really hurt opponents, and is one of those guys they’ll force to beat them by trying to shut down Brogdon and/or Perrantes. Often, he has responded well to that challenge. He has a tendency to dribble the ball too far from his body, or turn his body and head away from a defender, allowing the defender to get a steal.

Evan Nolte: 6’8†senior. Nolte is one of the few Hoos who just hasn’t improved all that much since he was a freshman. He had a lot of potential, at the time, but it just hasn’t been realized. He’s a stretch 4 with an inconsistent shot from three, though his percentage has improved of late. He’s a smart player who thoroughly understands the pack-line, but he’s a bit slow when he plays quicker players, and not quite strong enough to bang with the really strong bigs. Still, he has been instrumental in a few wins, and you never know when he’ll knock down a couple-or-three threes in a row.

Darius Thompson: 6’4†transfer soph. Thompson transferred to us from Tennessee, where he played well. He’s a natural point guard, and probably the best at getting steals on the team, though Wilkins might be. He’s not a great shooter, but is one of our best players on the break, infrequent as our fast breaks are. He is a very adequate guy to come in and rest our guards.
Jarred Reuter: 6’7, freshman. You’re unlikely to see Reuter. He has potential, and he saved our bacon in one game this year, but unless there’s substantial foul trouble, he’ll probably remain on the bench. If he does come in, he’s an adequate, if somewhat foul-prone, defender and has some good moves around the basket. He’s a good player. He just can’t quite crack this rotation.

Matchups and Tactics Against Iowa State

Sorry, I simply don’t know enough about your team to do a good job with this section. Everyone is familiar with Niang, though, and his type of player presents difficulties for almost everyone, but perhaps especially for the pack-line because of the pick-and-pop possibilities off ball screens. The big question for the Hoos is how to defend Niang. Since he’s big and can shoot from three, as well as drive to the bucket, there are very few college players who can defend that adequately. The pack-line can make defense even a bit harder because the defender is generally playing off him a bit on the pick to help out should the ball-handler drive the basket or should the screener roll. In the past, we’ve had the guy guarding the screener play a step closer to the screener to guard the pop, but that opens up the lane to the basket, as well as the roll to the basket, so it’s a pick-your-poison kind of thing. I suspect Brogdon will be put on Niang at some point, and that should be an interesting matchup.

A word about pushing the pace against Virginia: Most teams that have played us a lot don’t try it, because it tends to work poorly. The teams that we beat by double digits are often good teams that try to push the pace. Like WVU. The reason is usually because those teams end up taking bad shots in an attempt to shoot quickly. But the Hoos’ defense is usually already set, so the advantages of pushing the pace are gone. UNC and Duke, both of whom often have multiple Burger Boys, love to push the pace, and even they do it against us only when the opportunity from a steal or long rebound presents itself. The rest of the time, they set up their half-court offense, playing our game against us.

The best way to beat us is to get in the half court and move the ball around very quickly. Since we’re playing off our man-to-man assignments on the perimeter a step or so more than the average MTM team, that can lead to open threes. If our opponents can knock those down, we’ll play a bit closer to them, which spreads us out and makes us more vulnerable to the dribble-drive. In the past, we’ve had great rim protectors, so the dribble-drive to the bucket didn’t hurt us all that much, but not this year.

Teams that spread us out can drive for layups and/or kick out for threes, and that’s one way teams beat us. Duke understands how this works, very well, and they have the kind of shooters and athletes to make that strategy work. They can put four guys who are excellent three-point shooters and drivers on the perimeter, and that’s tough for anyone to deal with. Most teams don’t have Duke’s personnel, though, so that’s not a strategy everyone can execute well.
Hope this is helpful.

If you have questions, I’ll try to answer.
 

cyclonenation5

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Not sure who could have any questions after that novel.

I'm kidding. Thanks for the in-depth post, and welcome to CF.

I know you have a lot of weapons, but Brogdon and Gill really worry me.
 

MNCyGuy

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Haven't read the whole post yet, but I think the fear of giving up offensive rebounds has more to do with a persistent weakness ISU has had this year than anything to do with Virginia. They've looked better on that front these past two games though, against admittedly smaller teams.
 

jsb

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West Virginia is a much different team than us. Their offense doesn't work unless they are getting turnovers. Our offense does. In addition, we are more efficient on offense when we slow it down a bit.
 

1Nation

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But is this guy aware that Georges Niang played high school ball with Nerlens Noel???!!
 

MNCyGuy

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The best way to beat us is to get in the half court and move the ball around very quickly. Since we’re playing off our man-to-man assignments on the perimeter a step or so more than the average MTM team, that can lead to open threes. If our opponents can knock those down, we’ll play a bit closer to them, which spreads us out and makes us more vulnerable to the dribble-drive. In the past, we’ve had great rim protectors, so the dribble-drive to the bucket didn’t hurt us all that much, but not this year.

That definitely sounds encouraging based on the way the team has been playing the last couple days. I'm sure Bennett will cook up something to try and deny Niang the ball, though.
 

digZ

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Fantastic first post, good insight into your teams strategies, strengths, and weaknesses.

A common misconception about our team is that we like to push the pace via transition, but much like Virginia, only when we have an opportunity to do so. The Cyclones of past years have lived off of transition buckets, but this year's Clone team is much better at running half court sets, and getting lots of 2 point buckets in the paint area.

One thing I found interesting is that you mention Duke as a model for beating Virginia, well ISU happens to run a starting 5 with 4 people who can be hitting 3 pointers, or driving with the ball on any given night. Lately we've also been very adept at moving the ball side to side in the half court. I like this matchup if ISU can hit outside shots early and stay out of foul trouble. I worry about Gill getting our bigs in foul trouble and forcing Niang, McKay, or Nader to sit for extended periods of time.

Good luck, I have a feeling this is going to be a very contested game between two great teams!
 
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Wesley

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Fantastic first post, good insight into your teams strategies, strengths, and weaknesses. A common misconception about our team is that we like to push the pace via transition, but much like Virginia, only when we have an opportunity to do so. The Cyclones of past years have lived off of transition buckets, but this year's Clone team is much better at running half court sets, and getting lots of 2 point buckets in the paint area. One thing I found interesting is that you mention Duke as a model for beating Virginia, well ISU happens to run a starting 5 with 4 people who can be hitting 3 pointers on any given night. Lately we've also been very adept at moving the ball side to side in the half court. I like this matchup if ISU can hit outside shots early and stay out of foul trouble. I worry about Gill getting our bigs in foul trouble and forcing Niang, McKay, or Nader to sit for extended periods of time. Good luck, I have a feeling this is going to be a very contested game between two great teams!
Let's see how well Gill bounces off Deonte Burton.
 

HornacekFan1414

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Great post. This is a lesson on how to come to a rivals fan site and add value and knowledge. Welcome and good luck. I think both fan bases are worried about the matchup, whether they admit it or not.
 

CYCLNST8

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Many of us played on outdoor, blacktop courts in the dead of winter, barely able to see by the light of street lamps or feel our fingers in the cold.

Wow. That's rough. Guess we Iowans have it easy with our gymnasiums and electricity.
 

EarthIsMan

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2. We get a lot of offensive rebounds: Don’t know why this has been floating around on this board, but we don’t, and we don’t try to. The UVA defense (more on that defense, below) is designed to hinder the ability to score easy baskets. When a shot goes up on offense, at least three, and often four, guys immediately run back to the defensive end, leaving only one or two Hoos to attempt an offensive rebound. Sometimes they succeed, but we’re not going to send three or four guys to the offensive glass and give up the transition bucket. Bennett trades offensive rebounds for stopping an opposing team’s transition offense (most times, anyway).
A word about pushing the pace against Virginia: Most teams that have played us a lot don’t try it, because it tends to work poorly. The teams that we beat by double digits are often good teams that try to push the pace. Like WVU. The reason is usually because those teams end up taking bad shots in an attempt to shoot quickly. But the Hoos’ defense is usually already set, so the advantages of pushing the pace are gone. UNC and Duke, both of whom often have multiple Burger Boys, love to push the pace, and even they do it against us only when the opportunity from a steal or long rebound presents itself. The rest of the time, they set up their half-court offense, playing our game against us.

Thank you. Offensive rebounds and controlling tempo are what I have been trying to dispel all along:

http://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216376&page=7&p=5162041#post5162041

http://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216376&page=14&p=5162642#post5162642
 
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Farnsworth

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Great first post, very informative.

I'm now more curious about all the stuff he said he wouldn't get into, like the origin of 'hoo's'.
 

oldman

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Of our starting 5, 4 can shoot the 3-ball, and the first two off the bench can shoot it as well. We play a spread offense, and pass the ball around well. Our defense has improved to so-so -- McKay is a decent rim protector and Thomas usually gets the tough assignment. Although, this last game was Morris's guy, who he held to 8 pts after a 31 pt performance against Purdue.

We like to run, but have a good half-court game too. Any one of our first 6 can score 20+ on a given night -- you can't leave any of them alone. We've played most of the season with a 7-man rotation, but do have Ashton off the bench as an 8th, that doesn't hurt us when he's in.
 

Hoondog

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Great first post, very informative.

I'm now more curious about all the stuff he said he wouldn't get into, like the origin of 'hoo's'.

Like I said, it's not all that interesting. There are a few apocryphal stories, but the real one is that, in the 1890s, we had a baseball game against Washington and Lee in which the opposing side called us "wahoos" or "rowdy wahoos." We adopted the name as our own, and have been Wahoos/Hoos ever since.

See, like I said, not all that interesting.
 

andymhallman

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The Big 12 has figured out that the only sure-fire way to beat Niang is to get him in foul trouble. By halftime of the Little Rock game, Niang had zero fouls, which is astonishing. I don't think the Little Rock coach read a scouting report on our team before the game. If Niang is not in the game against Virginia, I don't know how we'll keep it close.

A few years ago, ISU became known as a three-point shooting team for taking the most threes in the nation. We still have that reputation despite the fact that our three-point attempts have dropped since 2013, although I feel this ISU team is the best three-point shooting team that we've ever had.

We are not a physical team at all since we have almost no bench to speak of, and consequently are afraid of fouling. Our sixth man, Deonte Burton, is a capable three-point shooter and slasher. Our seventh man, Hallice Cooke, can hit threes but doesn't play much, and our eighth man, Jordan Ashton, has not scored in a long time and is not a threat on either end of the floor. Our thin bench affects every aspect of our game from how we rebound to how we play defense.

One thing to keep in mind for Friday's matchup is that it will feel a lot more like a road game for Virginia than for ISU because we'll have so many fans there.

Thanks for the post!
 

CycloneBBFan

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Thanks for the post. That's a lot more than I could ever expect from the UVA basketball board......with all due respect sucks. Looking forward to seeing what Brogdon is all about but let it be know we've played against better aka OU Buddy Heild and have learned how to contain, or at least limit, such beasts. I do however find it rather amusing to read UVA's comments that Georges Niang can't drive against your bigs. Hope they keep thinking that. The good news is all the pundits think we will loose this game but they said the same last two games. If ISU shooters are firing on all cylinders watch out......... double team Georges all you want. Good luck.
 

Hoondog

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The Big 12 has figured out that the only sure-fire way to beat Niang is to get him in foul trouble. By halftime of the Little Rock game, Niang had zero fouls, which is astonishing. I don't think the Little Rock coach read a scouting report on our team before the game. If Niang is not in the game against Virginia, I don't know how we'll keep it close.

A few years ago, ISU became known as a three-point shooting team for taking the most threes in the nation. We still have that reputation despite the fact that our three-point attempts have dropped since 2013, although I feel this ISU team is the best three-point shooting team that we've ever had.

We are not a physical team at all since we have almost no bench to speak of, and consequently are afraid of fouling. Our sixth man, Deonte Burton, is a capable three-point shooter and slasher. Our seventh man, Hallice Cooke, can hit threes but doesn't play much, and our eighth man, Jordan Ashton, has not scored in a long time and is not a threat on either end of the floor. Our thin bench affects every aspect of our game from how we rebound to how we play defense.

One thing to keep in mind for Friday's matchup is that it will feel a lot more like a road game for Virginia than for ISU because we'll have so many fans there.

Thanks for the post!

Thanks. Very useful stuff to know.
 

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