Where is the defensive discipline?

[SCyclone]

It seemed to me like the Cyclones lost all their defensive discipline during the 3-point barrage. Obviously CFH wanted them to sag, both to keep Baylor's bigs from scoring, and to help with the rebounding. But it looked like cats chasing a laser pointer, and Baylor made (it sure seemed like it, anyway) every one.

We all make fun of Drew for taking timeouts, and yet even though he was out of them with still more than 8 minutes to play, didn't it seem Baylor was in complete control after that? MM has to take command in these situations, on both ends of the floor. I know he's only a sophomore, but if this team has genuine designs on being in the Final Four, they've got to show a lot more grit.

On to KSU............

 

[Turn2]

It seemed to me like the Cyclones lost all their defensive discipline during the 3-point barrage...

Which part of the game WASN'T the 3-point barrage?

 

[CyHawk7]

Which part of the game WASN'T the 3-point barrage?

The first 12 minutes of the second half where we actually decided to play defense.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Our defense was obviously designed to help clog up the middle. It's been that way all year, so I'm assuming that the purpose is to make teams beat us with jump shots and to help keep everyone out of foul trouble. I would like to see some adjustments to that at times (my thought it to pressure out front and let the inside guys help stop penetration when we get beat). I suppose it would be equally as frustrating to have teams running lay up drills on us too. Either way, Fred's system is obviously more weighted toward loading the line up with shooters and scorers rather than defenders, so it's probably going to be this way to an extent. On the whole, it's hard to argue with his results.

 

[3TrueFans]

Whar defensive discipline?

 

[SCyclone]

Our defense was obviously designed to help clog up the middle. It's been that way all year, so I'm assuming that the purpose is to make teams beat us with jump shots and to help keep everyone out of foul trouble. I would like to see some adjustments to that at times (my thought it to pressure out front and let the inside guys help stop penetration when we get beat). I suppose it would be equally as frustrating to have teams running lay up drills on us too. Either way, Fred's system is obviously more weighted toward loading the line up with shooters and scorers rather than defenders, so it's probably going to be this way to an extent. On the whole, it's hard to argue with his results.

I get that. But 3-point defense was a topic of discussion recently with CFH and the team, and a point of emphasis against Texas Tech. The game in Norman was another example, it seems the perimeter is this team's weakness. If we are going to just outscore teams, fine.....but when the shots aren't falling, like they weren't last night, then you need a fallback position.

 

[Cincyclone]

Seemed like the players got ****** when they weren't making shots and let it affect their defensive effort for stretches of the game.

 

[Beyerball]

What I would like to have seen and have seen in other games like the tx home game when teams are on an unprecedented 3pt run is for the staff to switch to a zone for just a few possessions to just make the other team adjust and get them off their rythym. Not once all year have we tried this and I don't get it. Many other coaches will do this. I don't think we practice it. One other thing I'd like to see more of is for us to press some just to get our offense going more when we struggle and increase the tempo. We have the depth.

wts, I just want to clarify for Cyclonesince78 that I'm not freaking out and all will be ok.

 

[Erik4Cy]

If we are turning good defense into good offense we excel. When we try to turn exciting offensive plays to energize the defense we get what we saw last night.

 

[isufbcurt]

Our defense was obviously designed to help clog up the middle. It's been that way all since Hoiberg's been here, so I'm assuming that the purpose is to make teams beat us with jump shots and to help keep everyone out of foul trouble. I would like to see some adjustments to that at times (my thought it to pressure out front and let the inside guys help stop penetration when we get beat). I suppose it would be equally as frustrating to have teams running lay up drills on us too. Either way, Fred's system is obviously more weighted toward loading the line up with shooters and scorers rather than defenders, so it's probably going to be this way to an extent. On the whole, it's hard to argue with his results.

Fixed the bolded for you. Hoiberg like to play the percentages and try to take away the easy close baskets, thus we always try to clog the lane and leave three's open.

 

[CloneZone13]

It's at Southern Miss.

 

[Erik4Cy]

It's at Southern Miss.

If you're trying to say Eustachy he is in Fort Collins at Colorado State...

 

[Cyclonestate78]

If you're trying to say Eustachy he is in Fort Collins at Colorado State...

Doc Sadler.

 

[Psiclone]

Our defense was obviously designed to help clog up the middle. It's been that way all year, so I'm assuming that the purpose is to make teams beat us with jump shots and to help keep everyone out of foul trouble. I would like to see some adjustments to that at times (my thought it to pressure out front and let the inside guys help stop penetration when we get beat). I suppose it would be equally as frustrating to have teams running lay up drills on us too. Either way, Fred's system is obviously more weighted toward loading the line up with shooters and scorers rather than defenders, so it's probably going to be this way to an extent. On the whole, it's hard to argue with his results.

Well, it's not like good offensive players are incapable of playing good defense. You can play good defense through effort, communication, and focus, and we had done that in the three previous games. For some reason, the team believes they are better than they are when we're in the Top 10, think we're going to win the conference outright, etc. That's when we've consistently under performed. If we win the next two, I hope the team is not made aware of the OK/KU game score before we play TCU. I think they'll play better either way, i.e., if KU wins or loses vs. OK.

 

[Wesley]

Whar defensive discipline?

Missing. Missing. MIA. Not enough hustle on defense at perimeter. Matt and McKay played well. Not sure if the others had their best performance

 

[Amesboy]

I think you said it, we had to sag more out high to help out down low. Your defensive trade-off is shot %'s and Baylor was on fire from outside. We just couldn't back out in time to solidly get a hand up and pressure the ball more then we did. It was a good game and Baylor played well. We play and win with this same type strategy Baylor used on us last night.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I think you said it, we had to sag more out high to help out down low. Your defensive trade-off is shot %'s and Baylor was on fire from outside. We just couldn't back out in time to solidly get a hand up and pressure the ball more then we did. It was a good game and Baylor played well. We play and win with this same type strategy Baylor used on us last night.

Just a thought... when the other team is on fire from deep maybe we should adjust the defense? It reminded me of the Kansas game in Lawrence. Wayne Selden sat out on the 3 point line and hit wide open 3 after wide open 3. No adjustment was ever made so Selden ends up with a career game and ISU ends up with a loss.

 

[CYKOFAN]

I think you said it, we had to sag more out high to help out down low. Your defensive trade-off is shot %'s and Baylor was on fire from outside. We just couldn't back out in time to solidly get a hand up and pressure the ball more then we did. It was a good game and Baylor played well. We play and win with this same type strategy Baylor used on us last night.

Well said. Sometimes you just have to give the other team credit, they were hot and we weren't. Scott Drew said it best when asked the key to the win and he said "shoot 14-26 from 3". That rarely happens, not even on open 3's, and not all of them were open. They had 5 different guys hit 3's and 7 in a row is unbelievable. They are a very talented team that could make a very deep NCAA run.

 

[cyclones500]

Well, it's not like good offensive players are incapable of playing good defense. You can play good defense through effort, communication, and focus, and we had done that in the three previous games.

This part, yes. Solid D (imperfect at times) were huge for the wins at OSU and UT.

I hate that opponents can scorch us from 3 so often, that's a huge concern. But it's a combination of things, and not just defensively. This team is extremely difficult to beat if (1) multiple players shoot well from 3 (2) opponent doesn't light it up from 3 (3) opponent's inside game is neutralized (offensive rebounds are infrequent, and ISU keeps points in the paint low) (4) stick to good ball-movement in half-court.

 

[heitclone]

I think you said it, we had to sag more out high to help out down low. Your defensive trade-off is shot %'s and Baylor was on fire from outside. We just couldn't back out in time to solidly get a hand up and pressure the ball more then we did. It was a good game and Baylor played well. We play and win with this same type strategy Baylor used on us last night.

the only issue with this is, when Gathers was out, there was not reason to sag to help out. Their entire offense was perimeter oriented. We played right into it.

That said, the offensive production or lack of from Naz, Hogue and even Georges had more to do with this loss than how we played them defensively. Georges had a great game but at times tried a little too hard to be the versatile Georges that the media creams over rather than the guy who can flat out take a game over. A lot had to do with him taking what the zone d gave but at some point, we'l need him to take games over again.