Been watching non Big 12 basketball lately...

[twincyties]

Pretty much this.

But in all seriousness, this thread's intention has more to do with stacking ISU up against the more long and athletic teams that score in droves versus stacking us up against Iowa. The only thing that frustrates me with regards to Iowa is that they have competent scorers, and I look around the country and so many teams do have an alpha or two that can be relied on to get buckets when it's crunch time. UCF even had one in Jaylin Sellers that I would kill to have that type of player on this ISU team. Just straight bucket getters that can put up 15+ ppg. First team all conference types. ISU still is lacking that, and I think is what is causing a bit of a feeling of uneasiness for me heading into the climax of the college basketball season.

Who are these great scorers from Iowa that you speak of?

Also, Sellers is averaging 16 points on 42% FG and 30% from theee. He averages more turnovers than assists.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Who are these great scorers from Iowa that you speak of?

Also, Sellers is averaging 16 points on 42% FG and 30% from theee. He averages more turnovers than assists.

He is a high usage player on a bad team. No way is he that inefficient on an Iowa State, Houston, or Baylor

 

[Cyinthenorth]

And not a lot of ISU games. Apparently our playmaker type guys aren't even on the same level as Iowa’s.

I don't know how many times I have to come back and say I didn't create this thread to make it a pissing match between Iowa and Iowa State, but nevertheless you and a few other posters keep dragging it that direction.

My whole point in creating this thread was to express concern that not having an all American or even all conference type of player on our roster gives me reason for pause and concern heading into the most pivotal moments of our season where we are going to start facing exclusively teams that have players like that. And yes, even Iowa is closer to having those type of players albeit in their crappy conference than we are. Still not claiming that I believe Iowa is a better team than us, just stating that I'd feel more comfortable heading into the stretch run if we had a go to all conference type of player to pick up the offense when they bog down, and that sentiment is becoming more and more prevalent with each passing game where it appears our offense is still just as susceptible to bogging down like it has been the last couple years.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

That's a very successful program over that period, but i wouldnt call it a blue blood.

To me a blue blood is a program that has success across multiple eras/coaching regimes. It signifies something inherent to the school gives it success, and not just making one good hire. And though winning a title is hard and random to a degree, i'd also expect a lot of elite 8 appearances for a blue blood. Like, Purdue has 5 E8s all time. The 5 blue bloods all have at least 20.

I agree with your definition of blue blood. I am not even sure I would quantify Michigan State as a blue blood, yet I would consider them a tier above Purdue

 

[madguy30]

I don't know how many times I have to come back and say I didn't create this thread to make it a pissing match between Iowa and Iowa State, but nevertheless you and a few other posters keep dragging it that direction.

My whole point in creating this thread was to express concern that not having an all American or even all conference type of player on our roster gives me reason for pause and concern heading into the most pivotal moments of our season where we are going to start facing exclusively teams that have players like that. And yes, even Iowa is closer to having those type of players albeit in their crappy conference than we are. Still not claiming that I believe Iowa is a better team than us, just stating that I'd feel more comfortable heading into the stretch run if we had a go to all conference type of player to pick up the offense when they bog down, and that sentiment is becoming more and more prevalent with each passing game where it appears our offense is still just as susceptible to bogging down like it has been the last couple years.

So it's not about Iowa but let's talk about their great players?

Who qualifies as being close to an All American for them?

 

[Cyinthenorth]

So it's not about Iowa but let's talk about their great players?

Who qualifies as being close to an All American for them?

They have probably a first team all conference guy and a couple 2nd team all conference guys. If we really must go there.

 

[NoCreativity]

They have probably a first team all conference guy and a couple 2nd team all conference guys. If we really must go there.

Yeah, having Garza and Keegan Murray really helped then get deep into the tournament. It's almost like this is a team sport.

 

[NoCreativity]

You seem to have watched a lot of Iowa basketball.

C'mon man, there's a certain segment on here that's given me crap for years anytime I mention Iowa, when it's blatantly obvious you guys watch alot more of them than I do.

I've also noticed you've already started your annual "don't get your hopes up, we are likely to be disappointed in our tournament run".

What's the point of being a fan if all you can do is worry about when we'll lose?

 

[bosco]

Poster: Here are things that I see that might be of concern or there are legitimate points of fact that may distort your rosy picture you may have in side your head.

CF: Poster sucks he hates ISU. This is an outrage, poster is the dumbest person alive they should be burned at the stake.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[NWICY]

I can't say I blame other teams when they call out our non con scheduling but it turns out a lot of teams had the same idea, it's definitely not a Big 12 problem. I guess it's helped us in the long run for now but it seems like we're being dinged on this 2/3 line debate because of our non-con. I hope they schedule better games in the future, who knows maybe we don't lose to BYU and Oklahoma early in the season if we played better teams in the non-con. Plus for entertainment value it'd be nice if we had a couple more non-con games that are competitive.

LOL, the 2 or 3 seed debate is a 1st world problem. Go back to the beginning of the season, some people didn't think we would make the tourney. Next yr our non con is tough (I think that is Maui Classic yr) when you are rebuilding rosters every yr and the conference we are in no harm in scheduling soft and giving the team a chance to grow and gain confidence.
It's good we can all have our own opinions.

 

[NWICY]

I know what the metrics say, and for sure they say Big 12 is best. I just don't know if the metrics are going to tell the whole story this year. I am thinking they won't. These sometimes offensively challenged Big 12 teams and another that lacks critical depth (KU) may be just as susceptible to these types of upsets. In my opinion anyway. The Pitt game from last year is just too fresh on my memory right now, watching our Cyclones struggle to put points on the board as of late.

Yeah our offense is just like last yr.
We have multiple people this yr that can help with the scoring, not like TJs 1st 2 teams that relied on D and hoped for points.

 

[Texbudman]

Poster: Here are things that I see that might be of concern or there are legitimate points of fact that may distort your rosy picture you may have in side your head.

CF: Poster sucks he hates ISU. This is an outrage, poster is the dumbest person alive they should be burned at the stake.

Rinse and repeat.

We’ve all seen our offense struggle lately but it’s against good defenses. When we play poor defenses our offense is fine. I think it’s that the original poster keeps bringing up Iowa and claiming they have better playmakers which just isn't true

 

[madguy30]

C'mon man, there's a certain segment on here that's given me crap for years anytime I mention Iowa, when it's blatantly obvious you guys watch alot more of them than I do.

I've also noticed you've already started your annual "don't get your hopes up, we are likely to be disappointed in our tournament run".

What's the point of being a fan if all you can do is worry about when we'll lose?

I've seen Iowa maybe two-three times. I'd hate for ISU to get beat by Iowa in that engrained 'grew up around Haydenism' kind of way. I'm not the one who cheers for them.

Aren't you the one who's melted down because ISU doesn't win conference titles because they aren't good enough? And you don't watch because it's too stressful? You're also one who questioned my ambitions in life because I understand that ISU can get beat. That was a doozy. Imagine living with that kind of hyperboleic mindset.

Can you point to a specific time when I've said said we are due for disappointment?
Making the tourney checks the box, everything else is gravy. Should I just expect a Final Four?

 

[madguy30]

They have probably a first team all conference guy and a couple 2nd team all conference guys. If we really must go there.

Who? Are they winning the B1G?

 

[NoCreativity]

I've seen Iowa maybe two-three times. I'd hate for ISU to get beat by Iowa in that engrained 'grew up around Haydenism' kind of way. I'm not the one who cheers for them.

The odds of us playing them are extremely low. They have alot of work to do to even make the tournament. They also have to win their first round game, something they haven't done the last 2 times with much better teams.

 

[IlliniCy]

This thread has been a great debate. I guess we'll just have to wait and find out in 2 weeks which conference is king.

Oh, and f*** Iowa.

 

[twincyties]

They have probably a first team all conference guy and a couple 2nd team all conference guys. If we really must go there.

You don’t think we’ll have all conference guys? I doubt either of us will have first team. Name more than one guy on Iowas roster that would see significant minutes for us.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

We’ve all seen our offense struggle lately but it’s against good defenses. When we play poor defenses our offense is fine. I think it’s that the original poster keeps bringing up Iowa and claiming they have better playmakers which just isn't true

A) I am not the one that keeps bringing up Iowa
B) It's all relative. Iowa does have players performing better offensively in the defense optional Big 10 than we do in the offense sometimes optional Big 12.
C) I do not believe B has any bearing on whether Iowa can win more than one NCAA Tournament game for the first time in 26 years, assuming they even punch their ticket to get in. And that is because yes, I do realize their offensive numbers and stats are inflated from playing in the Big 10.

and D) I certainly do not believe B makes Iowa a better team than Iowa State.

My whole point, as I have previously stated several times now, is that Iowa State does not have the type of player, that DOG, that can put a team on his back and get tough buckets in crunch time of an NCAA Tournament. A first team all-conference type, and they may not even have a 2nd team all conference type. We play GREAT TEAM BALL, and that is great, it has gotten us very far and we are enjoying our best season in over 20 years, I am simply pointing out a flaw that may trip us up and send us home early from the Big Dance in a few weeks. I hope I am wrong. Enough people have called me crazy now and want to make this about Iowa versus ISU, so I will just shut up now and move on to other threads. Mods, feel free to close this one.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

You don’t think we’ll have all conference guys? I doubt either of us will have first team. Name more than one guy on Iowas roster that would see significant minutes for us.

I would take the older Sandfort on this ISU team, bug eyes and all. That is where I'd draw the line though.

 

[Halincandenza]

I don't know how many times I have to come back and say I didn't create this thread to make it a pissing match between Iowa and Iowa State, but nevertheless you and a few other posters keep dragging it that direction.

My whole point in creating this thread was to express concern that not having an all American or even all conference type of player on our roster gives me reason for pause and concern heading into the most pivotal moments of our season where we are going to start facing exclusively teams that have players like that. And yes, even Iowa is closer to having those type of players albeit in their crappy conference than we are. Still not claiming that I believe Iowa is a better team than us, just stating that I'd feel more comfortable heading into the stretch run if we had a go to all conference type of player to pick up the offense when they bog down, and that sentiment is becoming more and more prevalent with each passing game where it appears our offense is still just as susceptible to bogging down like it has been the last couple years.

I do agree with that, that usually to advance past the sweet 16 you typically need at least one stud on offense who can take over. And very very difficult to make it to a Final Four without that.