Been watching non Big 12 basketball lately...

[Cyinthenorth]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

 

[Big_Sill]

Maybe you missed the memo: You are not allowed to think critically around here about the supremacy of big 12 basketball.

 

[JP4CY]

I'll go with teams I think can make a FF:

B12:
UH
ISU
Baylor
BYU
BE:
Uconn
Marquette
Creighton
B1G:
Purdue
IL
SEC:
TN
Bama
Auburn
ACC:
Carolina
Duke
P12:
Zona

I think the difference is I wouldn't be shocked to see KU, TT, TCU, or even TX in the Sweet 16.
Our next tier of teams is better than the other conferences.

 

[jsb]

I don't know enough about the other conferences.

But I will say that I don't like that the NCAA committee depends so much on metrics now and not on how teams actually look. I'm glad that it benefits the Big 12, but I can understand why other conferences don't like it.

 

[jctisu]

I'll go with teams I think can make a FF:

B12:
UH
ISU
Baylor
BYU
BE:
Uconn
Marquette
Creighton
B1G:
Purdue
IL
SEC:
TN
Bama
Auburn
ACC:
Carolina
Duke
P12:
Zona

I think the difference is I wouldn't be shocked to see KU, TT, TCU, or even TX in the Sweet 16.
Our next tier of teams is better than the other conferences.

Nothing “shocks” me in the tournament anymore, but imo it would be surprising to see Tech, TCU or especially Texas get out of the first weekend.

 

[dahliaclone]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

You can’t deny the Big 12 is the best overall conference. You just can’t. Top to bottom no other conference has the amount of very good and good teams and very few below average teams.

Now does the Big 12 have lots of final four teams? No. I see three of things go their way: Houston us and Baylor. But again I don’t see any other conference that has three or more legit contenders.

 

[Texbudman]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

Are you saying Iowa has legit playmakers or the Big 10 has legit playmakers?

 

[Clone9]

Maybe Iowa and Iowa State could play a game to see who is better? Oh wait.

 

[BigJCy]

You can’t deny the Big 12 is the best overall conference. You just can’t. Top to bottom no other conference has the amount of very good and good teams and very few below average teams.

Now does the Big 12 have lots of final four teams? No. I see three of things go their way: Houston us and Baylor. But again I don’t see any other conference that has three or more legit contenders.

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this board but unless an easier than expected path opens up for a Big 12 team the only one that I think can make it to a Final 4 is Houston. Even with them all it takes is a tightly called game and then they could have a major issue.

 

[twincyties]

SEC has some really good teams. I have same thoughts about Tennessee, Alabama, etc. They could give us problems. Teams like Auburn and Kentucky can beat anyone on a given night.

I don’t know that the top 3-4 of our conference is head and shoulders above best in the SEC. But the difference is our middle tier.

SEC drops off significantly after 4 teams. Big 10 drops off after 2-3.

Middle of the pack in the Big 12 is BYU, Tech, OU, TCU, Texas. That’s where the difference is. Even if you go down to UCF and Cincy you’re talking about a situation where bottom of our conference would be top half or top third in a conference like Big 10.

Agree with OPs point though about the length, athleticism and scoring of top SEC teams.

 

[ISUTex]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

Funny, whenever I watch Big 10 games all I notice is that nobody really plays defense. Iowa has more playmakers than ISU? Really? Have you not seen some of the plays Gilbert, Jones, Milan and Tre King have been making against elite defenses? Did you forget what ISU did to Iowa? It wasn't even close. Bob Jones and Tre King absolutely destroyed Iowa's post players. Dix couldn't even dribble the ball up the court against Gilbert. It was comical.

To answer your question in your last sentence.......you're crazy.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Are you saying Iowa has legit playmakers or the Big 10 has legit playmakers?

I admittedly haven't watched a lot of non Iowa Big 10 games, but objectively speaking if you were a fan of an opposing team, would you rather your team have to defend Iowa or Iowa State? It's Iowa State and not even close. Now you throw defense into the occasion and the answer definitely changes. I guess I just look around at other teams that have clear alphas on offense and I wonder why in year 3 of TJ we still don't have one. Even 15-13 NIT bound UCF had a couple players I'd trust more with the game on the line to get a bucket over any of our guys.

 

[cyatheart]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

I’m not sure I follow. We are better than Iowa but they have guys that score more?

I get it, we have challenges offensively. But to suggest Iowa is somehow on the same stratosphere, I don’t follow.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Funny, whenever I watch Big 10 games all I notice is that nobody really plays defense. Iowa has more playmakers than ISU? Really? Have you not seen some of the plays Gilbert, Jones, Milan and Tre King have been making against elite defenses? Did you forget what ISU did to Iowa? It wasn't even close. Bob Jones and Tre King absolutely destroyed Iowa's post players. Dix couldn't even dribble the ball up the court against Gilbert. It was comical.

To answer your question in your last sentence.......you're crazy.

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

 

[cyatheart]

I admittedly haven't watched a lot of non Iowa Big 10 games, but objectively speaking if you were a fan of an opposing team, would you rather your team have to defend Iowa or Iowa State? It's Iowa State and not even close. Now you throw defense into the occasion and the answer definitely changes. I guess I just look around at other teams that have clear alphas on offense and I wonder why in year 3 of TJ we still don't have one. Even 15-13 NIT bound UCF had a couple players I'd trust more with the game on the line to get a bucket over any of our guys.

No, that’s not right, you would much rather play Iowa. I don’t get the analysis. It isn’t a choice if defending ine team or another, you either play them or you don’t. This isn’t a game of 3 and out.

 

[CyCrazy]

The B12 is the best conference by far, but no that doesnt mean a team in the conference will win the title.

 

[cyatheart]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

I think you might not understand the game as well as you think.

 

[alarson]

I don't know enough about the other conferences.

But I will say that I don't like that the NCAA committee depends so much on metrics now and not on how teams actually look. I'm glad that it benefits the Big 12, but I can understand why other conferences don't like it.

Nah. The 'eye test' has always been garbage.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I’m not sure I follow. We are better than Iowa but they have guys that score more?

I get it, we have challenges offensively. But to suggest Iowa is somehow on the same stratosphere, I don’t follow.

We play better team ball than Iowa, yes, that part is clear. But Iowa has scorers and shot makers, still, on another level than we do, as has been the case every year so far under TJ. I'm not saying they're better than us.

I'm just saying it would be nice to have some more shot makers. Because our offense still bogs down horribly.

 

[mwitt]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

Are you looking at the 30 game sample of UCF, whose offense is ranked over 100 spots worse than us, but you trust their scorers more?