Game plans

[CyFy]

Might get roasted for this but...

The game plan was awesome yesterday, but I am hearing way too much about how terrible the game plan at Texas was. Do people really think they just flipped a switch and all of a sudden they were able to make a great game plan for the #3 team on the road with the missing players?

The difference in the gameplans was the execution. One example in the Texas game was when park tried to throw 2 deep balls to lazard in a row. The passes were just way off. What people I guess didn't notice was we had Lazard on an island. That is a match up they will look for every time. Throwing jump balls when we have a 6'5 receiver going against a 5'11 DB is what produced 3 giant plays this week.

I guess I have seen plenty already just into season 2 that I have full belief in this coaching staff's ability to put a game plan together and get annoyed when everyone thinks they know more than the coach...rant over

 

[FinalFourCy]

Might get roasted for this but...

The game plan was awesome yesterday, but I am hearing way too much about how terrible the game plan at Texas was. Do people really think they just flipped a switch and all of a sudden they were able to make a great game plan for the #3 team on the road with the missing players?

The difference in the gameplans was the execution.

Yes, they did. That's how bad last week was. They almost had no where to go but up, particularly when facing Mike Stoops. Let me remind you of how little we used DM last week. Also, Lanning at QB is a weapon in certain situations.

The quality of a game plan is measured by execution. If the players can't consistently execute what you're calling for, it's not a good plan. Do you blame execution when using a hammer on a screw?

 

[CyFy]

Yes, they did. That's how bad last week was. They almost had no where to go but up, particularly when facing Mike Stoops. Let me remind you of how little we used DM last week. Also, Lanning at QB is a weapon in certain situations.

The quality of a game plan is measured by execution. If the players can't consistently execute what you're calling for, it's not a good plan. Do you blame execution when using a hammer on a screw?[/

Their gameplans have produced offense at a level ISU has never seen and you want to say this game they were trying to use a hammer for a screw...they know their players better than any poster on this site and there was a reason for the plan they had against texas

Even with 7 points against Texas we are averaging 34.5 points per game. Park even with that terrible game was on pace for records in passing yards and TDs. The coaches know what Park can do which is why they trusted him with the game plan they put together. Park had a terrible game and a lot of his decisions took away carries from DM.

And notice I didn't mention the defense because the game plan held them to 17 points. They scored 40 against KSU and 24 against a top 10 USC team.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Texas was a combination of game plan and execution. It happens. Luckily our players and staff move on faster than some of our fans.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Might get roasted for this but...

The game plan was awesome yesterday, but I am hearing way too much about how terrible the game plan at Texas was. Do people really think they just flipped a switch and all of a sudden they were able to make a great game plan for the #3 team on the road with the missing players?

Pretty much, yeah. When watching these two games I feel like in the Texas game the coaching staff's philosophy was "hey, this is a winnable game, and we're at home. DON'T **** THIS UP." And then they outsmarted themselves by trying to anticipate what the Texas defense was going to try to do to us instead of just making sure they got the ball into our playmakers' hands and then get the hell out of the way and let them do their thing.

In the game yesterday it was more of a philosophy of "we're massive underdogs, OU is probably going to be looking ahead to their Texas game, lets just throw it all out there, be aggressive, and see what happens." They got the ball to their playmakers, and the guys they can rely on (DM, Lanning and Lazard) and whaddya know? It worked.

 

[HouClone]

Let's be honest guys. It was a simple game plan. Swing passes, run up the middle with DM, and lob it up to our tall receivers. But that is fine. Good job by Manning on this plan and getting Lanning and DM more involved.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Pretty much, yeah. When watching these two games I feel like in the Texas game the coaching staff's philosophy was "hey, this is a winnable game, and we're at home. DON'T **** THIS UP." And then they outsmarted themselves by trying to anticipate what the Texas defense was going to try to do to us instead of just making sure they got the ball into our playmakers' hands and then get the hell out of the way and let them do their thing.

In the game yesterday it was more of a philosophy of "we're massive underdogs, OU is probably going to be looking ahead to their Texas game, lets just throw it all out there, be aggressive, and see what happens." They got the ball to their playmakers, and the guys they can rely on (DM, Lanning and Lazard) and whaddya know? It worked.

I disagree with the bolded. Yesterday we just executed "normal" football at a high level. We didn't run a bunch of trick plays, or fake punts or FGs. We just executed really well. The only "throw everything at them" play was the double pass run by OU.

That's what has me excited right now. There weren't any flukes like 8 turnovers, or OU playing significantly worse than normal, or crazy 5 lateral on the last play stuff. We just beat them. We are getting much better despite any QB issues or losing to Iowa/UT.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

I disagree with the bolded. Yesterday we just executed "normal" football at a high level. We didn't run a bunch of trick plays, or fake punts or FGs. We just executed really well. The only "throw everything at them" play was the double pass run by OU.

That's what has me excited right now. There weren't any flukes like 8 turnovers, or OU playing significantly worse than normal, or crazy 5 lateral on the last play stuff. We just beat them. We are getting much better despite any QB issues or losing to Iowa/UT.

Yeah, I should have clarified on that.....I wasn't referring to trick plays (like OU felt they needed to run on us....maybe they DID need them after all), because it feels like I haven't even seen a trick play run by Campbell's staff. I can't remember one but maybe it's happened during a game while I wasn't paying attention. What I was trying to get at is that they were free-wheeling it some, reacting some to what the defense was giving but also taking deep shots when needed.

 

[GuyMcPerson]

Texas: 48 passes + 5 sacks = 53 pass plays vs 10 handoffs to the RB
Oklahoma: 27 pass attempts + 1 sack = 28 pass plays vs 31 rushing plays

Absolutely, we came out on the right side of hitting some deep balls. But look at the situations where we dialed those up: at the very end of the 2nd quarter when we had nothing to lose cause OU wasn't getting it back, on a 3rd & long when we were in FG range and had a favorable look to get it to Lazard vs what I think was a single high safety...worst case scenario we have to settle for 3, and once pinned deep following a turnover. Vs Texas, Park just started throwing bombs into cover 2. Where were the short routes? Where is Park using his legs when he has 20 yards of open grass? We were in so many 3rd & 10's. You need to set yourself up in 2nd & 3rd and shorts to move the ball downfield.

 

[dinger]

I was getting tired of the rush 3 drop 8 defense and giving up so many 3rd down conversions during the Texas game, until it ended and we had only given up 17 points. Even with the offense not sustaining drives and keeping the ball away from them. So I figured I would see what we came out with defense this week. Then in the 1st quarter yesterday I said out loud to my wife "continuing to give up these 3rd down conversions because we drop 8 and the qb has all day to find someone is getting old." Then for a second time in a row the game ends and I have to check myself. Perhaps couch coaching wasn't for me afterall.

[I understand there is more to a game plan than this, like punting from the 33, but this is just a defense observation.]

 

[dualthreat]

How about Oklahoma? A week after Texas writes the book on how to stop our offense and Mike Stoops lets Kempt throw for 350 and 3 TD? Not to mention he had no answer to our offense once we got rolling. I'm confident we would have continued to score had the game gone longer.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I was getting tired of the rush 3 drop 8 defense and giving up so many 3rd down conversions during the Texas game, until it ended and we had only given up 17 points. Even with the offense not sustaining drives and keeping the ball away from them. So I figured I would see what we came out with defense this week. Then in the 1st quarter yesterday I said out loud to my wife "continuing to give up these 3rd down conversions because we drop 8 and the qb has all day to find someone is getting old." Then for a second time in a row the game ends and I have to check myself. Perhaps couch coaching wasn't for me afterall.

[I understand there is more to a game plan than this, like punting from the 33, but this is just a defense observation.]

The fact that we could play three linemen against UT and OU and not just have them run wild on us is a huge statement for our front seven (or six).

 

[GuyMcPerson]

Their gameplans have produced offense at a level ISU has never seen and you want to say this game they were trying to use a hammer for a screw...they know their players better than any poster on this site and there was a reason for the plan they had against texas

Even with 7 points against Texas we are averaging 34.5 points per game. Park even with that terrible game was on pace for records in passing yards and TDs. The coaches know what Park can do which is why they trusted him with the game plan they put together. Park had a terrible game and a lot of his decisions took away carries from DM.

And notice I didn't mention the defense because the game plan held them to 17 points. They scored 40 against KSU and 24 against a top 10 USC team.

Not looking to get into a leaking match with you, but pretty much all these stats you are using have a ton of context behind them.

Texas scored 27 at home in Austin in regulation vs Kstate (40 in double OT) with Ehlinger compared to 17 on the road in Ames with Buechele. That said, defense did a helluva job for us. They did their part.

If you take away the 2 pick 6s vs UNI and the OT FG vs Iowa, then before yesterday ISU was averaging 28.5 ppg vs the #19, #45, #76 teams in defensive efficiency as well as UNI. Before the game we were around 45th in the country in offensive efficiency, but have now skyrocketed to 22nd.

Park had a sub-140 passer rating last year, and is still sub-140 so far this year. That's ok, but his ability isn't nearly what everyone is making it into. He was basically tied with Lannings passer numbers from last year, and I will be the 1st to say Lanning doesn't have a good arm.

Park setting ISU net passing yardage records is meaningless given ISU's history of terrible football, the number of times we have had 3 QBs splitting snaps, and how much the game has changed in the concussion era (Elway, Marino, etc had passer ratings that would be bottom 1/3rd of the league now days when it was so much harder to pass to defenseless WR's).

I think too many people are turning Jacob Park into Sage Rosenfels when he is probably closer to Austen Arnaud, but without the running ability. Or if he does what he did vs Texas - Steele Jantz. There is so much more to QB than arm strength.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Their gameplans have produced offense at a level ISU has never seen and you want to say this game they were trying to use a hammer for a screw...they know their players better than any poster on this site and there was a reason for the plan they had against texas

Even with 7 points against Texas we are averaging 34.5 points per game. Park even with that terrible game was on pace for records in passing yards and TDs. The coaches know what Park can do which is why they trusted him with the game plan they put together. Park had a terrible game and a lot of his decisions took away carries from DM.
.

Sorry, but decent production in other games compared to previous failed regimes doesn't mean the UT game plan wasn't horrible. Acknowledging that doesn't mean one is bearish on the staff. The coaches also know what failure looks like, which is why we won't see them ignore DM and the mid-routes again. A painful lesson to be learned in a winnable game for a program trying to get established, but not fatal.

 

[norcalcy]

That's what has me excited right now. There weren't any flukes like 8 turnovers, or OU playing significantly worse than normal, or crazy 5 lateral on the last play stuff. We just beat them. We are getting much better despite any QB issues or losing to Iowa/UT.

Agree. If this O line can start run blocking, this can be a really good offense. The only "disappointing" thing about yesterday was being held under 100 yards rushing as a team.

 

[GuyMcPerson]

Agree. If this O line can start run blocking, this can be a really good offense. The only "disappointing" thing about yesterday was being held under 100 yards rushing as a team.

Agree wholeheartedly here. If you have 5 NFL caliber road pavers, you can run pretty much whatever the hell you want. But one of the tradeoffs we have when we do mesh point RPO stuff with Park is you have to zone block and can't pull a guard. Look at Joeldozer when we send a pull guard, RB, and h-back to clear a path through the hole. Granted yesterday we were doing it from 4 wide with trips to 1 side and I believe Lazard 1 on 1 on the other. Lanning didn't pop any, but he was pretty close to on 2 of them. If we KU tries to shut down the screen and swing passes on the edge, I'd look for Lanning to go hog wild.

 

[norcalcy]

Agree wholeheartedly here. If you have 5 NFL caliber road pavers, you can run pretty much whatever the hell you want. But one of the tradeoffs we have when we do mesh point RPO stuff with Park is you have to zone block and can't pull a guard. Look at Joeldozer when we send a pull guard, RB, and h-back to clear a path through the hole. Granted yesterday we were doing it from 4 wide with trips to 1 side and I believe Lazard 1 on 1 on the other. Lanning didn't pop any, but he was pretty close to on 2 of them. If we KU tries to shut down the screen and swing passes on the edge, I'd look for Lanning to go hog wild.

Good points. If I am not mistaken, ISU is occasionally pulling the center and Montgomery is having some pretty luck behind him on wide runs. I see some yards in the run game in coming weeks.

 

[GuyMcPerson]

Good points. If I am not mistaken, ISU is occasionally pulling the center and Montgomery is having some pretty luck behind him on wide runs. I see some yards in the run game in coming weeks.

Yep we pull on designed runs. Just not on RPOs.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Texas was a combination of game plan and execution. It happens. Luckily our players and staff move on faster than some of our fans.

This is a message board.
Do you think the staff doesn't critique the heck out of every game? Luckily they are not head in the sand types like some of our fans.

 

[tolfbfan]

Good points. If I am not mistaken, ISU is occasionally pulling the center and Montgomery is having some pretty luck behind him on wide runs. I see some yards in the run game in coming weeks.

Houston has a Toledo Center who made a living pulling at Toledo. I'm slowly seeing more and more looks that I became used too while my kid was Hback at Toledo. As the lines get better, you will see more and more heavy packages that force one on one coverage with 6'5" receivers. Next series, 4 wide and slots running wild on routes, It's being built.