Harkin v. Limbaugh

[herbiedoobie]

I'm a member of several military forums, and am wondering if this is as big an issue back in Iowa, as it is here.

First, Harkin is on record as claiming to have Vietnam Combat Experience. Second, this is a lie. Harkin was a maintenance pilot, who flew F4s from Japan to the Phillipines. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Limbaugh (I don't think about him at all) how do Iowans justify repeatedly voting for a pathalogical Liar like Harkin? What kind of mental illness makes someone with a normally laudable service record (flying sick aircraft over the ocean is NOT for whimps) lie in public, about a subject that is so easily exposed as a lie.

It's bad enough that he is a proven liar, lying about military service, especially combat experience is the third rail within the military, so folks here just cannot understand why Iowans keep voting for the guy. I try to tell them about Iowa Schitty and Des Moines, as well as various tax gouges this guy brings to the state, but folks in the military take this stuff kinda personal, and do not understand the mindset that would cause people to pull the ballot box lever for him.


Is there someone here who is a Harkin "fan" that can 'splain some of this to me?

 

[wesley_w]

My only explanation is that the average voter is uninformed and does not vote on the issues, or maybe votes on one hot issue that is important to them personally.
To your question specifically, I think most people, if made aware of the discrepancy in Harkin's service record, are not going to change their vote just because of that. I'm not saying it's right, but it's just the way people are.

 

[Cyclonepride]

My only explanation for Harkin is a combination of far left voters and people who vote strictly for name recognition.

 

[Jerry1982]

Harkin is truly one to be wary of. But that aside, I've never understood how we can elect Harkin (Hard Left) and then Grassley (not quite as hard but still hard Right) What goes through the minds of voting Iowans?

 

[Kyle]

We love our incumbents. It gives us a lot of power in the Senate.

 

[cycloneworld]

This whole Rush vs. the Democrats thing is pretty dumb. Rush said something that was taken out of context and now the "political game" is being played.

Maybe senators should be worrying about securing our border, health care costs, balancing the budget, etc instead of a political sparring match with Rush Limbaugh. But I guess that wouldn't make the news. :realmad:

 

[cybsball20]

Harkin is a Cyclone... nuff said :wink:

 

[iceclone]

I'm a member of several military forums, and am wondering if this is as big an issue back in Iowa, as it is here.

First, Harkin is on record as claiming to have Vietnam Combat Experience. Second, this is a lie. Harkin was a maintenance pilot, who flew F4s from Japan to the Phillipines. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Limbaugh (I don't think about him at all) how do Iowans justify repeatedly voting for a pathalogical Liar like Harkin? What kind of mental illness makes someone with a normally laudable service record (flying sick aircraft over the ocean is NOT for whimps) lie in public, about a subject that is so easily exposed as a lie.

It's bad enough that he is a proven liar, lying about military service, especially combat experience is the third rail within the military, so folks here just cannot understand why Iowans keep voting for the guy. I try to tell them about Iowa Schitty and Des Moines, as well as various tax gouges this guy brings to the state, but folks in the military take this stuff kinda personal, and do not understand the mindset that would cause people to pull the ballot box lever for him.


Is there someone here who is a Harkin "fan" that can 'splain some of this to me?

(1) The trick is to get elected once, since incumbents win most of the time. This is true everywhere, but even more so in Iowa. Iowans do not like change. (2) People assume that politicians exaggerate their military experience and hence shrug it off. It seems that most political ads involving military records are at best misleading and at worst lies. We have very low expectations from our politicians.

 

[Kyle]

This whole Rush vs. the Democrats thing is pretty dumb. Rush said something that was taken out of context and now the "political game" is being played.

Maybe senators should be worrying about securing our border, health care costs, balancing the budget, etc instead of a political sparring match with Rush Limbaugh. But I guess that wouldn't make the news. :realmad:

I agree with you. However, I should point out that both sides are guilty of such crap. There was no point in the Petreyus/Betray-us debate either.

 

[bawbie]

This whole Rush vs. the Democrats thing is pretty dumb. Rush said something that was taken out of context and now the "political game" is being played.

Maybe senators should be worrying about securing our border, health care costs, balancing the budget, etc instead of a political sparring match with Rush Limbaugh. But I guess that wouldn't make the news. :realmad:

This is fallout from the MoveOn/Petreaus battle. Some Dems are pissed that the Right Wing in the Congress forced through the condemnation of MoveOn for a silly advertisement, and are retaliating against Limbaugh.

I've lived in Iowa almost my whole life and been an astute political observer for 10+ years and this is the first time I've ever even heard that accusation against Harkin, so that would probably explain why it hasn't affected his election record.

 

[cycloneworld]

I agree with you. However, I should point out that both sides are guilty of such crap. There was no point in the Petreyus/Betray-us debate either.

You are 100% correct. Each side is equally as guilty.

Part of me wants some real change in our government and part of me wants to just become apathetic and ignore everything. The problem is that real change won't happen because people are too apathetic to do anything about it. And the politicians know it.

 

[4VR4CY]

It is sad that most of the US expects politicians to lie. I think those two words are actually synonyms now.

Another reason why we have to get rid of the "my vote doesn't count" attitude. We, as voters, need to step up and show the world that we are tired of what is going on in politics!

 

[cycloneworld]

Another reason why we have to get rid of the "my vote doesn't count" attitude. We, as voters, need to step up and show the world that we are tired of what is going on in politics!

We really need someone outside of the political world with big-time $$$ to run. 1, that money will give him/her a legitimate shot. And 2, it will give people an option to get away from the "typical politician".

This is one reason I'm for Fred Thompson. Although he still has ties to politics, he is not embedded in it.

 

[benjay]

I'm a member of several military forums, and am wondering if this is as big an issue back in Iowa, as it is here.

First, Harkin is on record as claiming to have Vietnam Combat Experience. Second, this is a lie. Harkin was a maintenance pilot, who flew F4s from Japan to the Phillipines. Regardless of what anyone thinks about Limbaugh (I don't think about him at all) how do Iowans justify repeatedly voting for a pathalogical Liar like Harkin? What kind of mental illness makes someone with a normally laudable service record (flying sick aircraft over the ocean is NOT for whimps) lie in public, about a subject that is so easily exposed as a lie.

It's bad enough that he is a proven liar, lying about military service, especially combat experience is the third rail within the military, so folks here just cannot understand why Iowans keep voting for the guy. I try to tell them about Iowa Schitty and Des Moines, as well as various tax gouges this guy brings to the state, but folks in the military take this stuff kinda personal, and do not understand the mindset that would cause people to pull the ballot box lever for him.


Is there someone here who is a Harkin "fan" that can 'splain some of this to me?

probably because A.) nobody's ever heard of this, and B.) it doesn't really matter anyway.

And "folks in the military" tend to lean right, so they probably can't understand voting for Harkin in the first place.

 

[herbiedoobie]

First of all Harkin is not a Cyclone. Please, bite your tongue. And Harkin's claims of flying combat missions over Vietnam was not an "exaggeration". He's "corrected" his public military record twice, each time retreating from a discovered (and only when his lie is exposed by an independent third party) and concrete lie.

I attended ISU from 1982-87, but I don't claim to have started for the football team. To claim that I was a top-notch student is an exaggeration. To claim to have started for the football team would be a lie.

One of the most interesting aspects of the Petraeus/Betray Us ad is the extremely deep discount the NYT gave to MoveOn.Org in order to run it.

I've been following closely the proliferation of "phoney soldiers" that the opponents of the Iraq War have been using to support their "case." I find it instructive that it is a continuation of the Dan Rather "The facts may be a lie, but the story is true" mantra....

There are STILL people who believe that military poseurs have good points, and speak the truth, despite being poseurs. :wacko: The good news is, it is now a crime to pose as being a "war hero" under certain circumstances.

 

[jbell71464]

I have posted this on another thread, but the real answer is taking back the government for the people. The way to dismantle the big political machines like Harkin (Grassley too) is to instate term limits for the house and senate. Being a senator or a representative should not be a power building career, it is supposed to be public service and then you return to private life. I believe there should be a limit of 2 terms for Senators (12 years) and 3 terms for Representatives (6 years). This would accomplish three very important things: First, the politician would now have to focus on serving their constituients(sp?) rathter than buiding their re-election politcal machine, and second the voters will be forced to look at new people and issues every so often rather than slick ads and just settling for the status quo. This would also weaken lobbyists and special interest groups because they can't have "their guy" in there for 30 years voting their way. I cant imagine congress voting themselves out of a job and passing term limits, but I believe its the only way.

 

[bawbie]

We really need someone outside of the political world with big-time $$$ to run. 1, that money will give him/her a legitimate shot. And 2, it will give people an option to get away from the "typical politician".

This is one reason I'm for Fred Thompson. Although he still has ties to politics, he is not embedded in it.

oh come on! He spent almost thirty years as a lobbyist, lawyer and senator in Washington. Fred Thompson is as embedded in politics as anyone running, regardless of how he sounds.

 

[goldmember]

I wouldn't trust Harkin as far as I can throw him....I'm amazed how he manages to get re-elected.

 

[Incyte]

I would love to see term limits also.

 

[DaddyMac]

A beef between Tom Harkin and Rush Limbaugh?

Wow - that's just wasted time no matter how you look at it. Both of those individuals are using oxygen we might need someday.

Let's just lump in Ted Kennedy and Sean Hannity - then hope lightning strikes.