****(Official-ish) ISU vs OSU Big 12 Tourney ****

NYCy

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Feb 15, 2010
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What a gut-wrenching day to be a Cyclone. wow.

I really dislike watching the OSU women more than any other Big 12 team. I wonder what kind of offense they'll run when they don't have the master flopper taking 44 shots and falling down constantly to get touch fouls. Horrible. I hope they lose in the semis by 40 points.
 

Wesley

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Apr 12, 2006
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Riley was the Queen of Ball Hog, Usually you cannot win that way. Proved wrong tonight.
 

Royalclone

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Jun 22, 2008
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I couldn't figure out why they didn't jump the screen either. Lots of times it seem like all Anna had to do was get her hand up to contest Riley's jumper in the middle. Guess she is just so quick she leaves you flat-footed.
 

legi

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Oct 31, 2008
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You live and you learn. Didn't work against Stanford...maybe it would against OSU. Don't know if you don't try and we didn't try. Completely different team than Stanford.

Was ridiculously frustrating to watch. If that were the Men's team, people would be going ballistic at the defense.

I do agree with this part, but at the same time BF has a lot of credit to waste before we should go off on him like McD.
Again, our problem was offense, not defense.
 

Oldgeezer

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Mar 18, 2006
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Riley was 16 of 44 FG. That's 36% That's good enough. 18 turnovers and 14 ??? points off turnovers is what lost the game. Don't blame Fennelly, and don't blame Stuckey.
 

isuno1fan

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Mar 30, 2006
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Riley was 16 of 44 FG. That's 36% That's good enough. 18 turnovers and 14 ??? points off turnovers is what lost the game. Don't blame Fennelly, and don't blame Stuckey.

The team came out very uninspired and then we gave up open shot after open shot to the leading scorer in B12 history. Who's shoulders should that fall upon?

Sure she shot 36%...maybe she would have shot 30% if we would have made an adjustment and guess what, that would have won the game.

Bottom line...you can't give up wide open looks 44 times a game to one of the best players all time in the B12 and expect to win.
 

Royalclone

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Jun 22, 2008
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The team came out very uninspired and then we gave up open shot after open shot to the leading scorer in B12 history. Who's shoulders should that fall upon?

Sure she shot 36%...maybe she would have shot 30% if we would have made an adjustment and guess what, that would have won the game.

Bottom line...you can't give up wide open looks 44 times a game to one of the best players all time in the B12 and expect to win.

To be fair, she is so quick off the dribble and has such a quick release that she is hard to stop. I think all you can do is try to keep her and the team off their game a little bit. BF is still right, our lack of offense hurt more than our defense.

With Bolte our only real threat outside, she was getting face-guarded, and anytime she came across the middle, someone made sure she they chipped her with a body.
 

ISU_REV

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Apr 21, 2006
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I was really expecting to see Lacey come in for that last possession. She could have been a decoy to help get Bolte open. If they sagged off of Lacey she could have shot a 3 for the tie.
 

chrishull14

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Jan 31, 2007
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The team came out very uninspired and then we gave up open shot after open shot to the leading scorer in B12 history. Who's shoulders should that fall upon?

Sure she shot 36%...maybe she would have shot 30% if we would have made an adjustment and guess what, that would have won the game.

Bottom line...you can't give up wide open looks 44 times a game to one of the best players all time in the B12 and expect to win.



It doesn't matter who took the shot each time. The Cyclone defense held Ok St. to 35.3% fg shooting for the game. The Cyclone defense did a good enough job to win the game. The problem was on the offensive end. No one stepped up to fiil the void left by Lacey. Leadership, Ball control, Playmaking, Shooting all were lacking on the offensive end. That is where the game was lost.
 

Tornado man

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Sep 16, 2007
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The problem was on the offensive end. No one stepped up to fiil the void left by Lacey. Leadership, Ball control, Playmaking, Shooting all were lacking on the offensive end. That is where the game was lost.

I think Okla State's defense had something to do with that. Our inside people had nowhere to go, and Riley and co. dominated our guards.
 

jbhtexas

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Oct 20, 2006
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The team came out very uninspired and then we gave up open shot after open shot to the leading scorer in B12 history. Who's shoulders should that fall upon?

Sure she shot 36%...maybe she would have shot 30% if we would have made an adjustment and guess what, that would have won the game.

Bottom line...you can't give up wide open looks 44 times a game to one of the best players all time in the B12 and expect to win.

ISU could have also won the game by shooting better and making fewer turnovers. You shouldn't expect to win any Big 12 games shooting 33% from the field and making 18 turnovers on top of the bad shooting, as ISU did last night.

Riley is the leading Big 12 scorer simply by virtue of the number of shots she takes. She's not an awsome shooter % wise. The problem was that ISU as team had only 7 more shot attempts than Riley did, largely due to the 18 TO. The team stats link isn't working right now on the Big 12 website, but I'd love to see how many shot attempts Riley has compared to Griffin of NU, who is the second leading scorer in the Big 12.
 

gregniowa

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Oct 11, 2008
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Why the opposition to employing the double team when it is called for?

At what point should a coach conclude that what they are doing to cover a play is not working? Time and time again OSU used that high screen play with Denae being the only player covering and the rest in zone. This provided a 2 on 1 opportunity for OSU resulting in an entirely open look at the basket for Riley. It is obvious that Fennely had decided to give her a jump shot at the basket rather than forcing her to take it inside.

But not ordering the underneath players to come out to at least put pressure on the shot was a bad coaching decision. Watching the players underneath stand there and watch Riley come around her screen and not move up to put an hand up when there was planty of time to do so was an excruciating exercise as a fan.

Regardless of how bad our offensive output was, a legitimate fault must be lodged against this coaching decision to allow her open shots. Prins could have easily shifted higher whenever the screen player moved out - at least when Riley moved around to execute that play, but apparently no one was told to do that. And considerg the fact that there was two players on the play against one ISU defender, it would not be a "double team" it would in fact be single coverage. ISU decided to allow an offensive double team to be executed time and time again - a bad coaching decision.

That having been said, Prins had a good night relative to others, but it was't all great, she still missed some very simple, and vital, under the basket scores which would have likely won the game, as did other players - shots that should be 98% shots. Failure on basic fundamentals on ball movement, simple shooting and layup form and "scoring without the ball" was ISU's real undoing - not that the OSU defense was so smothering.

If Riley had not gone through that cold streak where she was missing those open shots given to her by the ISU defense, and instead had simply gone lukewarm, it could have been a humiliating loss.

Bottom line is that without Lacey, the rest of the team seems to gets mentally pressured and do not play up to their potential. A previous poster was correct in saying that off season point guard college would do our guard players well as the difficulties we are encountering seem more mental and intellectual than physical. Its more about what to do with their movement when they don't have the ball on offense than shooting ability and more about keping their mind on the principles of proper form when making layups and the like than even getting opportunities to make them.

It wasn't the Sister's best game, but I am proud of how they have grown this year and the heart with which they play. Really, its all a fan could ask for. They certainly are a greatly improved team in the overall since the beginning of the season with still a lot of youth and inexperience in key positions - players which did not give up even being down a dozen in the first half.

With the re-addition of Lacey's experience and skill back into the lineup, they should be a contender aginst any but the elite teams. (UConn, Stanford and Tennessee for example, would slice and dice an offensively single faceted team like OSU, IMO. And I think ISU would have beat OSU fairly handily with Lacey and all cylinders firing.)

But since ISU is not made up of a raft of elite recruits (no offense meant to the hard working team we love and support) the loss of any player key to the success equation is felt all that much more. But even with my dissapointment with some of the things related to the OSU loss, the fact remains that the ISU women's team has been a great success this year considering the "rebuilding" makeup of the lineup (starting lineup freshmen and sophmores) and this is a great testimony to the program - both players and coaching staff alike.
 

Tornado man

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ISU could have also won the game by shooting better and making fewer turnovers. You shouldn't expect to win any Big 12 games shooting 33% from the field and making 18 turnovers on top of the bad shooting, as ISU did last night.

This gets lost, but you have to give OSU's defense some credit for our offensive woes. The defense of Toni Young and Teagan Cunningham, for example, made Prins and Poppens non-factors. They owned them.
 

jbhtexas

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Oct 20, 2006
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Re: Why the opposition to employing the double team when it is called for?

But not ordering the underneath players to come out to at least put pressure on the shot was a bad coaching decision. Watching the players underneath stand there and watch Riley come around her screen and not move up to put an hand up when there was planty of time to do so was an excruciating exercise as a fan.

Regardless of how bad our offensive output was, a legitimate fault must be lodged against this coaching decision to allow her open shots. Prins could have easily shifted higher whenever the screen player moved out - at least when Riley moved around to execute that play, but apparently no one was told to do that. And considerg the fact that there was two players on the play against one ISU defender, it would not be a "double team" it would in fact be single coverage. ISU decided to allow an offensive double team to be executed time and time again - a bad coaching decision.

Riley is not a good % shooter, and it doesn't deter her. She shoots and shoots. When you pull a player out of the post to defend as you are suggesting, you give up a rebounder. It exposes your posts to fouls as they are defending a much quicker player. It also creates confusion about rebounding assignments and leaves the defenders vulnerable to giving up offensive reoubnds. Is it wise to give up C/PF rebounding position in order to guard a player who misses most of the time? There is alot of energy expended by posts when they have to do this. I might do it once in a while for someone like Riley, but not on a consistent basis. If she starts hitting 50%, then yes, I would make an adjustment. But she wasn't shooting well.

If Riley had not gone through that cold streak where she was missing those open shots given to her by the ISU defense, and instead had simply gone lukewarm, it could have been a humiliating loss.

Yeah, but she did go through that cold streak, as she often does. Had OSU not scored 16 points off of ISU TOs, it would have been a humiliating loss for them.

I really don't understand why people are fixating so much on how Riley was guarded. Giving up 35% team FG and 36% FG to the leading scorer is the Big 12 is not a bad thing. If ISU cuts out just 8 TO and shoots just 40%, they win comfortably, without their best player Lacey.

TornadoMan, I understand your point about the good OSU defense, but a good part of ISU's woes did come from poor execution.
 
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Tornado man

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Re: Why the opposition to employing the double team when it is called for?

Is it wise to give up C/PF rebounding position in order to guard a player who misses most of the time? There is alot of energy expended by posts when they have to do this. I might do it once in a while for someone like Riley, but not on a consistent basis. If she starts hitting 50%, then yes, I would make an adjustment. But she wasn't shooting well.

Our game is tied with a little over 5 min to go - Riley hits four clutch shots from then on, including that huge layup over 6'6" Prins with about 45 sec. left.
I think your dismissing of her as a great player is an injustice - she dominated the game last night - especially when it counted.
BTW - I would take Riley over Griffin every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
 

jbhtexas

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Oct 20, 2006
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Re: Why the opposition to employing the double team when it is called for?

I think your dismissing of her as a great player is an injusticee.

She shot 36% for the game...it is what it is. The game was close because of ISU's ineptness on the offensive end, not because Riley played great.
 

gregniowa

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Oct 11, 2008
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Riley is not a good % shooter, and it doesn't deter her. She shoots and shoots. When you pull a player out of the post to defend as you are suggesting, you give up a rebounder. It exposes your posts to fouls as they are defending a much quicker player. It also creates confusion about rebounding assignments and leaves the defenders vulnerable to giving up offensive reoubnds. Is it wise to give up C/PF rebounding position in order to guard a player who misses most of the time?

This actually would not have been my choice if I were coaching, I would have used another asset other than the post to put some pressure on the shot. The far side guard repositoned to high paint center when the screen player shifted high left would provide the ability to both come out and challenge the shot by Riley as she had perviously made it or add to protection on the drive if that happened. But assuming that you didn't want to change up the positioning of your players on the field, the post was the player closest to the shot, which was made from almost exactly the same place evey time. Let's face it, give a decent player enough times shooting from the same spot in a game, anyone can adjust their shot to make decent percentages. That Riley is not simply a "decent" player makes the decision to let her have exactly the same shot so many times without any pressure on her unwise IMO. Moderate movement towards the shot could have been enough to disrupt her shot, making one less completion, which would have made the difference in this game. This level of challenge would not have gave up a rebounder as she was shooting from 2-3 feet inside the arc. While ideal rebounding position might have been compromised, allowing a top player to make shots unchallenged from the same spot inside the arc repeatedly is a policy I would not advocate in high school ball, even less in Divison 1 NCAA. It's not like they did not know exactly what they were going to do.

But your comment on the turnovers is well taken. If other aspects of the game offensively had been decent, the shooting percentages of Riley would have been very inadequate. But then again, if thing had been better on ISU's front, Riley might have stepped up more and her percentages might have improved, as many top players do. She did have good percentages in the clutch at the end.
 
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