Replay/Overturn @ 133

[SouthJerseyCy]

Just thought I'd start a separate thread about a real beef I've got with how replay is being executed this year.

In the Small match, initially, he was awarded 2 BP and wrestling was stopped with around :11 to go in the period. Todd had over a minute of riding time and a 7-4 lead. After the review, they took away the 2 BP (questionable, but whatever) but my bigger beef is that they reset the clock back to 1:07 in the period and took away all that riding time. Whether he got the 2 back or not had no bearing on the fact that he had control through that whole timeframe. If they restart at :11 seconds, Todd rides through the 2nd, with RT, it could have been a very different outcome.

Anyone else have a problem with this or care to explain why it was called this way? I can see certain instances where you would want to go back to the point in time (eg - TD being reversed), but this seemed to make no sense. I guess it's just a letter of the law type rule?

 

[BCClone]

Just thought I'd start a separate thread about a real beef I've got with how replay is being executed this year.

In the Small match, initially, he was awarded 2 BP and wrestling was stopped with around :11 to go in the period. Todd had over a minute of riding time and a 7-4 lead. After the review, they took away the 2 BP (questionable, but whatever) but my bigger beef is that they reset the clock back to 1:07 in the period and took away all that riding time. Whether he got the 2 back or not had no bearing on the fact that he had control through that whole timeframe. If they restart at :11 seconds, Todd rides through the 2nd, with RT, it could have been a very different outcome.

Anyone else have a problem with this or care to explain why it was called this way? I can see certain instances where you would want to go back to the point in time (eg - TD being reversed), but this seemed to make no sense. I guess it's just a letter of the law type rule?

I thought to myself at the time that the challenge hurt him even if he kept the pints because he had good control and had him flattened out. The restart put him in a lot better position to escape.

 

[buf87]

If the call gets overturned, it is like everything after that point did not happen.

But they will leave the sequence go until they find a good stopping point.

I did not realize it went that long. Someone behind me was saying that exact same thing. Maybe you sit behind me SouthJerseyCy!

I will have to rewatch the match later. Headed to the Farm Power Show today

 

[cy4state]

Watching the Iowa - Ohio State meet, there was a match where the brick was tossed but the refs waited until a whistle to review. That should have been the case, I thought, with Small who had control. The time shouldn't have been added back on as Small still had control, just take away the two points. I also had issues where Gremmel was being called for stalling but on an earlier match, OK State was fleeing the mat multiple times and nothing.

 

[buf87]

Watching the Iowa - Ohio State meet, there was a match where the brick was tossed but the refs waited until a whistle to review. That should have been the case, I thought, with Small who had control. The time shouldn't have been added back on as Small still had control, just take away the two points. I also had issues where Gremmel was being called for stalling but on an earlier match, OK State was fleeing the mat multiple times and nothing.

I was joking with Gannon at the social and told him, "If you weigh 50 pounds more than your opponent, you are not allowed to double underhooks and push him off the mat."

That was basically the same thing that happened when he wrestled the undersized guy when he got DQ'd

if that was Carter Isley, it doesn’t get called that way

 

[SouthJerseyCy]

If the call gets overturned, it is like everything after that point did not happen.

But they will leave the sequence go until they find a good stopping point.

I did not realize it went that long. Someone behind me was saying that exact same thing. Maybe you sit behind me SouthJerseyCy!

I will have to rewatch the match later. Headed to the Farm Power Show today

I wish I was behind you buf. As my moniker implies, I'm watching on Flo except when they make a trip East.

I just rewatched it again and am even more confused. Flo was having difficulty with their clock/scoreboard so it is a bit tough to tell, but right before the sequence happened, they had a restart at around the :35-:40 second mark. You can hear the bench and Kyven say "short time ride" and then it is confirmed when they are showing replay, OSU hit the throw about the :30 second mark. At WORST case, there should have been around :28 seconds on the clock and Small had 1:05 or so in RT.

Inexplicably, after the review, there is 1:07 on the clock and Small is :25 seconds RT. I was first complaining about the rule itself, but the more I look at it, this seems to be a blatant error.

 

[jkbuff98]

I thought to myself at the time that the challenge hurt him even if he kept the pints because he had good control and had him flattened out. The restart put him in a lot better position to escape.

Agree and I thought he actually was starting to turn him again when they stopped the action . Makes no sense to take away the riding time and reset the clock just because back points were called off.

 

[csteve]

I don't know for sure about the clock in this match nor do I recall stoppage. When a brick is thrown and challenge ensues, the clock is reset to the time of the situation in question as long as it is a reversed call. It is similar to "bad time", which is time that is wrestled when wrestlers start in wrong position, wrong wrestler given choice, or choice not given after 2nd injury timeout. It's also like football rules when a call is challenged where the time on the clock will be adjusted if call is overturned.

I agree that if the challenge is for no nearfall, they should wait for a stoppage to review. Then the clock should not be changed as the nearfall situation had no impact and did not cause "bad" time. That would be a good rules review for NCAA!

 

[JM4CY]

Can someone explain to me exactly what happened in that sequence? I am still confused as to why all that happened in the first place. I was there at the time and turned to the guy behind me and said man it would nice to actually be watching that to hear Kyven said to explain what went down and why they ruled it the way they did

 

[SouthJerseyCy]

Can someone explain to me exactly what happened in that sequence? I am still confused as to why all that happened in the first place. I was there at the time and turned to the guy behind me and said man it would nice to actually be watching that to hear Kyven said to explain what went down and why they ruled it the way they did

Kyven was actually thinking at first that the challenge would backfire and they could award 4 BP. He was shocked when it was overturned and then was also confused about the clock, though they didn't dwell on it. As I said above, I've rewatched it several times now and it appears to be a blatant error in officiating, even with the current rules.

If you have a Flo subscription you can watch it here. Start watching around the 7:00 mark. There is no clock, but Kyven makes a comment that Small has :52 seconds RT on the restart. How on earth did it go back to :25 seconds after review? https://www.flowrestling.org/events...a-state-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6675042

 

[VeloClone]

The only rationale I can think of why you would need to always go back to the time of the error is because strategy may be different. If a wrestler is awarded 2 back points and he now has a one point lead he may work very hard to keep his opponent from escaping or he may not shoot as aggressively if they are in a neutral position. If it is then reviewed with 10 seconds left on the clock and those two points taken away he has missed out on all the intervening time to let the opponent escape and work for a takedown in the first instance or be more aggressive and take more risks for a TD in the second instance.

 

[SouthJerseyCy]

The only rationale I can think of why you would need to always go back to the time of the error is because strategy may be different. If a wrestler is awarded 2 back points and he now has a one point lead he may work very hard to keep his opponent from escaping or he may not shoot as aggressively if they are in a neutral position. If it is then reviewed with 10 seconds left on the clock and those two points taken away he has missed out on all the intervening time to let the opponent escape and work for a takedown in the first instance or be more aggressive and take more risks for a TD in the second instance.

I guess I can kind of see that in a normal situation. As I've said above, here they rewound the clock to even before the last restart. Almost a minute before the challenge block was even thrown.

 

[VeloClone]

I guess I can kind of see that in a normal situation. As I've said above, here they rewound the clock to even before the last restart. Almost a minute before the challenge block was even thrown.

Yeah, that is a major screw up. But questions were being asked about why go back to the moment of a possible blown call. That is what I was addressing.

 

[Boxer007]

Has replayed improved any sport? With the exception of calling HRs in baseball I haven’t seen it. Games slow down and feel disjointed. Things happen so fast and now we go frame by frame to see if someone’s hand brushed someones face or if there was a millisecond of locked hands.

I don’t like it!

 

[csteve]

Has replayed improved any sport? With the exception of calling HRs in baseball I haven’t seen it. Games slow down and feel disjointed. Things happen so fast and now we go frame by frame to see if someone’s hand brushed someones face or if there was a millisecond of locked hands.

I don’t like it!

I like it for football and wrestling. Football reviews have at least allowed the officials to get many more calls correct. For all sports, I believe there should be a replay official that determines the call. I think it is wrong to have the wrestling officials review their own calls. There should be a replay official at every table that can discuss the replay with the acting official, yet have authority to make the final ruling. I think this would change the outcome dramatically. Along with this replay official, I would like to see them add to the challenge rule. If a coach throws the brick and the call is upheld, I believe stalling should be called on their wrestler. If the rule is overturned, then no stalling. This would possibly make the coaches think twice about throwing it. I think it would only work with a replay official that has final ruling.