Retirement Targets

Cyched

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A hybrid Roth-Traditional strategy could help with taxes in the long run. It can also be a plan for future inheritance distributions.

I'm roughly 52% traditional. But the wildcard will always be future tax brackets.

We have an advisor through work. He was concerned about my aggressive style. 100% equities. After explaining that I'm buying shares on the dip and that I have a high risk tolerance he was cool with it.

Same with the hybrid traditional-roth. Who knows what things will look like. The important thing is committing to investing. Staying the course.

Just my humble opinion. It's OK to take some risks, but make sure to do something

Agree with diversifying the Trad/Roth contributions. For most young investors Trad 401k/Roth IRA is a good way to split your investments.

One thing to note with tax-deferred options: as you get closer to retirement you have options for Roth conversions and so on. With Roth you can’t put that genie back in the bottle, but being tax free money it’s less of an issue. There isn’t really a “wrong” option as long as you’re saving.
 

ISUCyclones2015

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.
 

cycloneman003

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.
Obviously don't know your specific situation, but if you max out your 401k in your 30's and contribute to a Roth IRA as well, you'd have a couple million in retirement accounts by 60 likely? Now if there are known health issues that unfortunately limit life expectancy (and you don't have kids, etc. to leave it all too) then I say live it up. Like any of us, I could drop dead tomorrow unexpectedly. That said, I'm not going to make my financial plan on the basis that I'm never going to see/enjoy retirement.
 
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FriendlySpartan

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.
It’s a valid thing to think about. So is the opposite which is outliving your retirement funds.

In your case you need a living will set up asap, as well as an end of life plan to have your directives very clearly spelled out for what type of care you wish to receive at the end of your time. Too often I see people who had a similar view/experience and then end up rotting away in a horrible facility due to lack of funds or placing an extreme burden on the next closest family. Not saying that’s you by any means but you should meet with a lawyer and get that all locked up as soon as possible if that’s going to be your path.

It’s honestly extremely good advance for everyone to have a death plan but with your (personally expected) circumstances it’s critical.
 

cyphoon

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Where do you all keep your emergency fund. I've looked into hysa, but using a vanguard money market settlement fund or similar seems popular too.

VUSXX treasury money market: Currently yielding 5.27% w/ some state tax benefits
Ladder of 12 month CDs : ~5.5%


Vanguard settlement == VMFXX : currently yielding 5.26%, so that is a solid choice as well. The treasury fund has slightly better tax breaks.

I used to have an Ally account, but the treasury money market funds are beating them by quite a bit now.

H
 

dmclone

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.
I agree with what your saying, and I recognize that you're not saying to not save for retirement. With that said, I have a sister has lived by that theory her whole life. Her whole life has been about "You can't take it with you, when you're dead" and "there is no way I'll live to retirement".

30 years later....She is 63 and her husband is in his mid 50's. He had health issues last year that forced him out of work and within 2 months they work looking at bankruptcy and looking to see if they could buy an RV to live in. Her husband had a 6 figure a year income and they live in a LCOL area. Their house, which they've lived in for at least a decade, has basically zero equity because they took a 2nd mortgage. They have zero saved. They do have 2 muscle cars, grown up kids that got a lot of dumb crap (e.g. $5k kids corvette), a lot of jewelry, and those priceless memories. I couldn't believe it when last year she called me crying and said "I may have to go back to work at 63!".

If you have a chronic issue, it makes sense. If you live a "hard" lifestyle and think this will cause an early death, you may want to slightly adjust your plans.
 
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cyphoon

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I am in the process of investing as much as I can as I have been lucky enough to have a really good last 4 years.

Are you self employed by chance (1099 instead of W-2)? If so, look into opening a solo 401k or sepira. The SEP is easier to open, but you can contribute more to a solo 401k. You can shield a huge chunk of money from taxation with both.

Otherwise, I agree with most of the others: 3-6 months of savings in a high yield account yielding at least 4%, look into opening an HSA if you can, and if you have cash left over, start saving into a taxable brokerage account. The vanguard total stark market index fund and ETF are both sneaky good at being tax efficient.

I also like to have a ladder of CDs, but they are not beating Vanguards money market funds by much right now.

If you still have money left over, consider investing in real estate, or get hitched to a fine lady. That is a sure fire way to rid yourself of excess funds.

H
 

cyphoon

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So, I’ve just opened a vanguard account. I have been seeing varying investing strategies on here since I posted. Are ETFs a good option?

Most Vanguard ETFs have an equivalent mutual fund with nearly identical expenses. Doesn't matter much whether you pick the ETF or the fund. Funds may have initial minimums to get started, whereas the ETFs usually dont, but the ETFs tend to trade as shares vs dollar amounts, which can be a bit awkward. I use mutual funds.

Their Total Stock Market index, S&P 500 index, and Growth index are all good choices to get started.

H
 
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cyphoon

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Agree with diversifying the Trad/Roth contributions. For most young investors Trad 401k/Roth IRA is a good way to split your investments.

My preference is to invest in a traditional 401k in an effort to punch my way down out of the 22% tax bracket, and then invest in a Roth IRA. This way, the roth contribution is taxed at the next bracket down (12%). I live in Iowa, which is kind of a high tax state, so this shields me a bit there as well.

Note that I am 52, so the compounding power of the Roth is a bit diminished. I might care less about roth contribution taxes if I was 32. But when I was 32, I didn't earn jack.

H
 

Kinch

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I'm 32, wife is 30. One kid (4) and second on the way this fall. I've not spent much time at all to be extremely knowledgeable in the investing world, so we've kept it simple with some input from an advisor who manages a few accounts for us (roth IRAs and some old employer 401k/403b accounts that we rolled over into traditional IRAs).
  • No debts outside of mortgage
  • Both maxed out 401k contributions (all Roth now)
  • Contribute full state tax deductible amount to 529 plan for kid
  • Contributed max to Roth IRA annually until we passed the income limits
  • Next up is sorting out what to do around backdoor/mega backdoor roth
I'm sure the costs of two little ones will hold us steady in this state for a few years, but then onto getting some money into taxable accounts (either learning on my own, or using our advisor). It's very hands off and simple for us and don't watch the market constantly.

Our income situation obviously helps, but the biggest thing for us was starting straight out of college contributing really significantly to employer retirement plans. Like every college kid, I was dead broke when I graduated and started my first job. I started contributing 10% to 401k immediately and but when you start out like that, you never miss the money. Then every raise over the years I would up the contribution percentage by half of the raise (4% raise, increase contribution by 2%) until I was maxed out. Again, never missed the money because I never saw that "new" salary. I just saw the small increase that ulimately came through. Probably "better" ways to do it, but for simplicity sake it was a great way to get a jump start on things.
Good job. Investing in your 20s is the quickest way to financial security.
 
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ISUCyclones2015

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Obviously don't know your specific situation, but if you max out your 401k in your 30's and contribute to a Roth IRA as well, you'd have a couple million in retirement accounts by 60 likely? Now if there are known health issues that unfortunately limit life expectancy (and you don't have kids, etc. to leave it all too) then I say live it up. Like any of us, I could drop dead tomorrow unexpectedly. That said, I'm not going to make my financial plan on the basis that I'm never going to see/enjoy retirement.

I do live it up a lot and it's interesting discussing with my colleagues when we go out for beers.

I am the youngest by a lot on my entire team and in general we're all high earners compared to the average of the country. But I am also the one least concerned about retirement.

If I live long enough, Fidelity (my company's 401k provider) claims I will have millions based on whatever future formula they have. Plus my life insurance is 15x salary, so in general whatever debts I rack up (I don't really) I am not concerned.
 

ISUCyclones2015

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It’s a valid thing to think about. So is the opposite which is outliving your retirement funds.

In your case you need a living will set up asap, as well as an end of life plan to have your directives very clearly spelled out for what type of care you wish to receive at the end of your time. Too often I see people who had a similar view/experience and then end up rotting away in a horrible facility due to lack of funds or placing an extreme burden on the next closest family. Not saying that’s you by any means but you should meet with a lawyer and get that all locked up as soon as possible if that’s going to be your path.

It’s honestly extremely good advance for everyone to have a death plan but with your (personally expected) circumstances it’s critical.
One of my company's benefits is legal "insurance".

So I have a will, living will, and trying to figure out the assisted death legalities in Illinois currently (apparently if you're single it's a lot harder) but have set aside funds within my estate to go to Switzerland if all else fails.
 
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3TrueFans

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One of my company's benefits is legal "insurance".

So I have a will, living will, and trying to figure out the assisted death legalities in Illinois currently (apparently if you're single it's a lot harder) but have set aside funds within my estate to go to Switzerland if all else fails.
Your cats are going to be set for life.
 
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JustAnotherTimeline

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.

This is a great call out.

A 18 year old male in the US has a life expectancy of getting to roughly 74 years. If you assume your last couple years are clouded with declining health, you are looking at 7 years of bliss if you quit working at 65. That doesn't really move the needle for me to obsess over retirement as many seem to do.

Frankly, many high income people that I know that are able to pour into retirement accounts tend to have incredibly poor work/life balance. Or, at least had to sacrifice time during many of their peak life years to get where they are.

Discretionary time to spend with family, friends, and hobbies, during your peak life years is the real currency of value imo.

I have saved at a level that most retirements calculators say I am "on target". I don't have funds to max everything out (not even close), but I also have enjoyed a 3 day weekend and worked less than 40 hours a week for the last decade.

Just my two cents.
 

CascadeClone

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This is a great call out.

A 18 year old male in the US has a life expectancy of getting to roughly 74 years. If you assume your last couple years are clouded with declining health, you are looking at 7 years of bliss if you quit working at 65. That doesn't really move the needle for me to obsess over retirement as many seem to do.

Frankly, many high income people that I know that are able to pour into retirement accounts tend to have incredibly poor work/life balance. Or, at least had to sacrifice time during many of their peak life years to get where they are.

Discretionary time to spend with family, friends, and hobbies, during your peak life years is the real currency of value imo.

I have saved at a level that most retirements calculators say I am "on target". I don't have funds to max everything out (not even close), but I also have enjoyed a 3 day weekend and worked less than 40 hours a week for the last decade.

Just my two cents.
Financial advisor mentioned this book to me. I am not going to do this 100%, but it does make you think, especially if you are doing very well.

Better to retire at 55 with $X and enjoy it, or work 10 more years, have $2X, but then declining health and time to enjoy it?

<https://www.diewithzerobook.com/welcome>
 
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KnappShack

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My preference is to invest in a traditional 401k in an effort to punch my way down out of the 22% tax bracket, and then invest in a Roth IRA. This way, the roth contribution is taxed at the next bracket down (12%). I live in Iowa, which is kind of a high tax state, so this shields me a bit there as well.

Note that I am 52, so the compounding power of the Roth is a bit diminished. I might care less about roth contribution taxes if I was 32. But when I was 32, I didn't earn jack.

H

I also front load the 401k contribution. Traditional at 50% ish until I have enough to pull back to the company match.

My lower contributions are typically Roth at that point. This year I went more into Roth earlier as it looks like my tax brackets could be higher down the road....way down the road when required distributions kick in for the Mrs and me.
 

JK4ISU

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One thing not discussed in the thread is the assumption you’re never gonna make it to retirement.

Both my parents didn’t, I likely won’t based on health. So what’s the point besides a safety net? I max out my 401k and did the Roth while I was under the income limit.

But at the end of the day, it does feel like I could’ve used some of that money for something to do while alive.

I guess the Gerdin building will get a nice renovation or something.
Even if you think you won’t make it to retirement, you might. Not making it to retirement doesn’t necessarily mean you die in your sleep or drop dead of a heart attack one day. You might have a death that takes a long time. If this is the case, some disability insurance and money will come in handy. Which risk do you want to minimize, the risk of dying rich or the risk of living in poverty at the end of your life? They’re inversely related.
 

dmclone

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I've found that once you hit a certain age, it's really all about how you saved early. I'm 6 years away from retirement, and I max out my 401(k), but in reality it will have very little impact on my retirement balance. My main growth now is happening because of things I did early and mid career.
 

CascadeClone

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Oct 24, 2009
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I've found that once you hit a certain age, it's really all about how you saved early. I'm 6 years away from retirement, and I max out my 401(k), but in reality it will have very little impact on my retirement balance. My main growth now is happening because of things I did early and mid career.
At 8% annual rate, putting in the same amount every year-

after 10 years, interest is 31% of the total (or 44% of what you have put in)
after 20 years, interest is 56% of total (128% of your contribs)
after 30 years, interest is 74% of total (277% of your contribs)
after 40 years, interest is 85% of total (547% of your contribs)

Time wins.
 

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