NBA: Should LeBron James be compared to Michael Jordan?

[Clones85']

Loaded with names. Haslem, Miller and Anderson have been the guys who have helped win game. Wade has barely been a factor and when he is, it's easy buckets off LeBron. Bosh has had, what, one game where he scored much? Anderson has had that. LeBron can't play poorly and win. He has to play great. Yes, that's on him but he has no room for error. You can judge the roster on their names and how they played previously to the playoffs but they have, in large, sucked in the playoffs. I guess I'm just talking about Bosh, Wade and Allen. Those are the guys that are supposed to be helping and they are not.

Tell me how Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker have played the last 2 games. Role players have to step up anymore to help you win games. Role players are so much better in todays game.

If you don't judge a roster off it's names and their career results, what do you? To say he doesn't have any help when he left Cleveland for Miami to play with a top 3 SG and a top 3 PF is wrong. If those guys are struggling right now, it doesn't take away from the fact that Lebron has a stacked roster around him. It doesn't change day by day. 3 weeks ago you could have said, "Miami has one of the best rosters we have ever seen."

The Lakers once lost with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton. Did Kobe/Shaq need more talent around them? Was that a bad roster? No, the roster was great, they simply underperformed and didn't gel together at all. That doesn't mean that Kobe didn't have any talent around him like you are suggesting with Lebron.

 

[Rabbuk]

So Jordan's team of Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr, and Ron Harper was less talented than Kobe's team of Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, and Trevor Ariza?

You gotta take into account the relative strength of other NBA teams. NBA was stronger during the 90s.

 

[Clark]

You gotta take into account the relative strength of other NBA teams. NBA was stronger during the 90s.

As compared to now? yeah, not so sure about that. Especially if you take into account the rules changes as some of those teams couldn't play in todays NBA.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

The worst part of LeBron's game is the defense (something MJ was amazing at as well). LBJ's defensive is flopping.

 

[Clones85']

You gotta take into account the relative strength of other NBA teams. NBA was stronger during the 90s.

I disagree.

NBA is better today. 90's had better big men but that's it. Guards are better and role players are better. IMO of course

 

[Clark]

Tell me how Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker have played the last 2 games. Role players have to step up anymore to help you win games. Role players are so much better in todays game.

If you don't judge a roster off it's names and their career results, what do you? To say he doesn't have any help when he left Cleveland for Miami to play with a top 3 SG and a top 3 PF is wrong. If those guys are struggling right now, it doesn't take away from the fact that Lebron has a stacked roster around him. It doesn't change day by day. 3 weeks ago you could have said, "Miami has one of the best rosters we have ever seen."

The Lakers once lost with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton. Did Kobe/Shaq need more talent around them? Was that a bad roster? No, the roster was great, they simply underperformed and didn't gel together at all. That doesn't mean that Kobe didn't have any talent around him like you are suggesting with Lebron.

the flaw in your argument is you're acting like Wade is healthy and just underperforming. The guy is playing on one leg yet you keep throwing his name out there like it's the 2006 finals. Frankly, if Spo had any balls he'd sit Wade on the bench and play him as a reserve instead of a starter.

 

[HFCS]

So Jordan's team of Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr, and Ron Harper was less talented than Kobe's team of Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, and Trevor Ariza?

My take on Bulls rosters is that Jordan's first three the roster really weren't that great (minus MJ of course) compared to most other title teams. Pippen was good by then but not as dominant as many of these players we're talking about. The 3rd best player on those first three teams had never made an all star team and by the end of those titles Pippen had two All Star appearances. I can't see how someone can say Jordan had more help in those three championships than LeBron has right now with a straight face. If they're saying that, they're probably just too young to know. More help than LeBron in Cleveland? Clearly.

The second 3peat teams were truly loaded though. Pippen was now in his prime, Rodman was a great defensive specialist. People forget that Harper was a very solid player and an elite defender in the league as well. The perimeter defense of Harper-Jordan-Pippen is easily better than anything else I've ever seen, zero weakness. Harper-Jordan-Pippen-Rodman-18 7 footer fouls at center is the best defensive lineup of all time in the playoffs when it mattered. You had freakish strength, athleticism, length, instincts and size at 4 of the five positions. It's not a coincidence they had the winningest season ever with this lineup.

This link may help a youngster here better understand the actual lineups:
Michael Jordan Teammates in the Championship Years

 

[cyclonespiker33]

Tell me how Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker have played the last 2 games. Role players have to step up anymore to help you win games. Role players are so much better in todays game.

If you don't judge a roster off it's names and their career results, what do you? To say he doesn't have any help when he left Cleveland for Miami to play with a top 3 SG and a top 3 PF is wrong. If those guys are struggling right now, it doesn't take away from the fact that Lebron has a stacked roster around him. It doesn't change day by day. 3 weeks ago you could have said, "Miami has one of the best rosters we have ever seen."

The Lakers once lost with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton. Did Kobe/Shaq need more talent around them? Was that a bad roster? No, the roster was great, they simply underperformed and didn't gel together at all. That doesn't mean that Kobe didn't have any talent around him like you are suggesting with Lebron.

Two starters for the Heat failed to scored a single point last night. Show me any of MJ's teams that did that in the finals (hell, ever).

 

[cyclonespiker33]

My take on Bulls rosters is that Jordan's first three the roster really weren't that great (minus MJ of course) compared to most other title teams. Pippen was good by then but not as dominant as many of these players we're talking about. The 3rd best player on those first three teams had never made an all star team and by the end of those titles Pippen had two All Star appearances. I can't see how someone can say Jordan had more help in those three championships than LeBron has right now with a straight face. If they're saying that, they're probably just too young to know. More help than LeBron in Cleveland? Clearly.

The second 3peat teams were truly loaded though. Pippen was now in his prime, Rodman was a great defensive specialist. People forget that Harper was a very solid player and an elite defender in the league as well. The perimeter defense of Harper-Jordan-Pippen is easily better than anything else I've ever seen, zero weakness. Harper-Jordan-Pippen-Rodman-18 7 footer fouls at center is the best defensive lineup of all time in the playoffs when it mattered. You had freakish strength, athleticism, length, instincts and size at 4 of the five positions. It's not a coincidence they had the winningest season ever with this lineup.

This link may help a youngster here better understand the actual lineups:
Michael Jordan Teammates in the Championship Years

The teams he beat weren't exactly world-beaters either

 

[HFCS]

The teams he beat weren't exactly world-beaters either

The road to the finals through the East was ridiculously tougher than this year's Milwaukee-Chicago 3rd/4th string-Indiana youngbloods pretty much every season. With the exception of the two Jazz teams the finals competition in the West wasn't as good as Dirk's prime year or a Spurs Finals team though. If the Bulls had ever matched up against the two Rockets finals teams I'd say the overall competition was tougher and the Finals competition was even.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

The road to the finals through the East was ridiculously tougher than this year's Milwaukee-Chicago 3rd/4th string-Indiana youngbloods pretty much every season. With the exception of the two Jazz teams the finals competition in the West wasn't as good as Dirk's prime year or a Spurs Finals team though. If the Bulls had ever matched up against the two Rockets finals teams I'd say the overall competition was tougher and the Finals competition was even.

Why are we only talking about how amazing he was in the finals then?

 

[Clones85']

the flaw in your argument is you're acting like Wade is healthy and just underperforming. The guy is playing on one leg yet you keep throwing his name out there like it's the 2006 finals. Frankly, if Spo had any balls he'd sit Wade on the bench and play him as a reserve instead of a starter.

Dwayne Wade was one of 4 players that averaged 20+ points, 5+ rebounds, 5 + assists in the NBA this year (Lebron, Kobe, Westbrook are the others). He shot the highest FG% in his career this year and averaged 2 steals a game

He very well may be hurt, but that doesn't change the ridiculous argument that Lebron is playing with a weak roster. That's not true. His roster is the best in the NBA. Name a better roster.

Parker is playing and has been with a bad hamstring. Duncan is 94 years old. Ginobli has been awful.

 

[HFCS]

Why are we only talking about how amazing he was in the finals then?

I'm fine comparing the two in just playoffs or just finals...it's not a question either way. I do think he had more help in the second three titles, but not in the first three. He never went down in flames deferring as LeBron did two years ago and last night.

Also, I've been more talking about how LeBron had the biggest statistical finals choke ever. That's compared to all elite players ever, if you want to compare that choke directly to Jordan's finals numbers then it's your funeral.

 

[Clones85']

Two starters for the Heat failed to scored a single point last night. Show me any of MJ's teams that did that in the finals (hell, ever).

Utah Jazz at Chicago Bulls Box Score, June 13, 1997 | Basketball-Reference.com

Rodman 1 point
Harper 2 points
Longley 0 points

It's 1 game, it happens. It's happened before. People like to remember the Bulls sweeping through the playoffs and winning championships by 50 and never breaking a sweat. That's not the case. They had some growing pains too and some tough losses

 

[Gravy79]

This isn't even a discussion. Look at finals stats. It's clear.
Look at Finals MVPs. Look at the number of rings and Jordan retired for almost two years in his prime

 

[HFCS]

This isn't even a discussion. Look at finals stats. It's clear.
Look at Finals MVPs. Look at the number of rings and Jordan retired for almost two years in his prime

It's a discussion for two reasons:

1. Young people.
2. My least favorite form of faux intellectualism...contrarianism

 

[JohnnyFive]

MJ in finals 6 for 6, 6 MVPS! That pretty much says it all.

"Thats the only argument I need, Sean!!"

 

[Jordanj6502]

The road to the finals through the East was ridiculously tougher than this year's Milwaukee-Chicago 3rd/4th string-Indiana youngbloods pretty much every season. With the exception of the two Jazz teams the finals competition in the West wasn't as good as Dirk's prime year or a Spurs Finals team though. If the Bulls had ever matched up against the two Rockets finals teams I'd say the overall competition was tougher and the Finals competition was even.

The Sonics team in 96 was a great team. And I would say it could match up against any of three the teams the Heat have played in the finals.

 

[Clark]

Dwayne Wade was one of 4 players that averaged 20+ points, 5+ rebounds, 5 + assists in the NBA this year (Lebron, Kobe, Westbrook are the others). He shot the highest FG% in his career this year and averaged 2 steals a game

He very well may be hurt, but that doesn't change the ridiculous argument that Lebron is playing with a weak roster. That's not true. His roster is the best in the NBA. Name a better roster.

Parker is playing and has been with a bad hamstring. Duncan is 94 years old. Ginobli has been awful.

Who said Wade was hurt the entire year?

Wade in the playoffs:

14 ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 44% shooting.

Was he one of 4 players to do that as well?

It's not just his offense that has taken a hit either.

 

[Clark]

It's a discussion for two reasons:

1. Young people.
2. My least favorite form of faux intellectualism...contrarianism

yet the "vets" like you just ignore Wilt, Russell, and Kareem.

Jordan may indeed be the best basketball player ever, but it's far from an easy pick and certainly not the "I can't even believe we're discussing this" level of animosity that some of you freakin Chicago fans are throwing around.