Talen Horton-Tucker
- Thread starter AppleCornCy
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I imagine some NBA fans will snap at me for this, but I get the impression that NBA teams are basically ******* around and playing a glorified pickup game until it gets to the playoffs (or near to the playoffs for the teams that are actually trying to earn themselves a bid to the postseason).
I get why -- the season is really long. Guys want to avoid fatigue and injury. Higher seeds are not much of an advantage in the NBA (the "swing" is only one home/road game in a best-of-seven series) in comparison to say the NFL (with the #1 seed bye and home field advantage being huge).
The NBA playoffs are the sport at its highest level. Before that, though... meh.
CW and BB have been consistent in reporting that THT wasn't a "problem" during his one year in Ames. I think I remember CW saying Talen was "fine" and "well-liked" in the locker room.
Wigginton however... had more than a little Terrell Owens and Barry Bonds in him. Seemed to lose his mind when he lost his starting spot and worked on bringing the whole team down with him.
There are some guys I remember fondly during the 2018 and 2019 era, though...
Donovan Jackson (if only for the shot heard 'round the world in Lawrence, and watching him play so soon with a heavy heart after his father's death was gut-wrenching as a fan)
Marial Shayok (a great player, a one-year wonder up there with Kane and Brockington)
Nick (a good player who gave it everything he had and played through some painful injuries)
SoYo (similar to Nick... did his best in a bad situation, went through a lot of pain for us)
And, of course, we found Haliburton during that era. He's an all-timer, and I'm sad we only got to enjoy him in Ames for two seasons. But having an all-NBA guy be an ISU guy is awesome.
It seemed like LW and THT both had one foot out the door their whole time.
He started, but his minutes did drop off towards the end. He only played 15 minutes in the NCAA tournament game against Ohio State.
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand basketball to the level I understand football, but I don’t know how many times I’ve seen a defender let a guy go right past him for an uncontested layup or dunk in the NBA. Sometimes I could swear I must have missed a whistle because the defense just stops, but nope, the basket counts and play continues.
The Jazz wanted and tried to make him the starting PG at the beginning of the year, but it wasn’t successful. I think when that failed, the Jazz brass kind of threw their hands up and said “we don’t have a role for this guy”.
He is definite trade bait. All Jazz insiders have him being traded at or before the deadline.
He is definite trade bait. All Jazz insiders have him being traded at or before the deadline.
Famine THT showed up with a whole bunch of other trends.
That group was actually weirder than 14-15.
How many of you commenting have actually watch THT play in the NBA?
The Lakers used him differently than the Jazz. The games I have watch with him on the Jazz, they have used him primarily as a PG with the second unit. This seems like a misuse of his talents to me. He is a creative passer as a SG, but he is not a floor general that I would want as a primary PG. For his sake I hope he gets traded. He is a talented scorer that can be a mismatch with his arm length. I don't know what kind of relationship he has with Haliburton, but I think he could have a spot with the second unit on the Pacers.
The Lakers used him differently than the Jazz. The games I have watch with him on the Jazz, they have used him primarily as a PG with the second unit. This seems like a misuse of his talents to me. He is a creative passer as a SG, but he is not a floor general that I would want as a primary PG. For his sake I hope he gets traded. He is a talented scorer that can be a mismatch with his arm length. I don't know what kind of relationship he has with Haliburton, but I think he could have a spot with the second unit on the Pacers.
Exactly the sort of effort that gets you benched in the NCAA unless (1.) you're playing for a bad coach who doesn't know how instill discipline on and off the court and (2.) maybe you could excuse it if you're in foul trouble and just conceding the points to avoid any risk of an early third or fourth foul that day. There's occasional moments where that's the smart strategic play, like Niang not contesting shots at the basket.
That doesn't seem to be what's going on in the NBA, though.
If you can’t contest without fouling sometimes it is better to concede the basket because a.) you don’t want foul trouble, b.) you don’t want to give up an and1, c.) you don’t want to give up an uncontested 3.
The NBA is a lot different than college. If you don’t watch the NBA watch like 3 games this week or so. The guys are really, really skilled. It’s night and day compared to college. They all have the ability to finish through contact and will shoot at a much higher 3 pt% than college players would. Defenders also have a lot more ground to cover because the 3 pt line and player ranger is further back than college. Plus there is defensive 3 seconds in the paint.
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I'm fully aware just how freakish NBA players are. The combination of size, speed, strength, and skill even the median NBA player has is terrifying compared to most college players. The last guy on every NBA bench is likely an all-Big 12 guy if not the easy favorite for CPOTY if they were playing in college.
So yes, it is a different game, but it is impossible not to notice the difference in intensity between most regular-season games and games for teams trying to make the playoffs or in the playoffs. Guys who just go "olé" because it isn't worth the fight over 82 games all the sudden are locking down everything.
They do stand out a bit as guys that never really connected with the fans as much as others. Some of it was the era and teams they were on, who they were surrounded by, and their personalities. They are certainly sons of Iowa State and have done nothing to diminish the tie, but I agree they don't have the same connection as so many others of the era (Naz, Monte, Haliburton, Ejim, Kane, Royce, etc).
Good take!
I think I would change my opinion if I saw them wear any ISU gear or tweet positive stuff about ISU. Maybe they both do both of these things, I just haven't seen any of it.
Good take!
I think I would change my opinion if I saw them wear any ISU gear or tweet positive stuff about ISU. Maybe they both do both of these things, I just haven't seen any of it.
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I generally agree with you. I think the biggest problem with THT playing off ball as a SG in the NBA is that’s he’s never been a solid spot up 3 pt shooter. In the modern NBA that makes it darn near impossible to earn a rotation spot as an off ball guard. To me his best comp might be a poor man’s Westbrook, and that seems kind of what the Jazz were hoping for with him as a PG.
If he could develop a solid spot up 3 I think he’d be a legit NBA starter talent, but without it he’s struggling to find a consistent role.
The only active guys we have in the NBA for 2024 are...
Haliburton
Horton-Tucker
Morris (still on a roster but hasn't played this season with injuries)
Niang
Wigginton
We're spoiled that 3/5 of those guys are Cyclones for life.
I definitely agree the intensity for regular season games isn’t equivalent to that of the playoffs, or even a college game.
The NBA regular season is around 2.5x as many games as a college team will play. Also each NBA team averages between 100-106 possessions per game. Kennessaw State leads the NCAA with 77 possessions per game right now. It’s harder for NBA players to maintain defensive intensity compared to college since they play more games, more possessions, more minutes, against better quality players.
Also worth pointing out. The style of D ISU plays would not work in the NBA. NBA refs would whistle every hand check, every body on a trap, etc. Perimeter D is harder in the NBA because the NBA values freedom of movement a lot more than college.
That said, there are poor defensive teams and guys who half ass D in the NBA. College has that too though.
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Oh it is more than that...
31 * 40 = 1,240 possible minutes
82 * 48 = 3,936 possible minutes
3.17x
Average NCAA game = ~70 possessions
Average NBA game = ~100 possessions
NCAA = 1.75 possessions per minute
NBA = 2.08 possessions per minute
NCAA = 1,240 * 1.75 = 2,170 possessions
NBA = 3,939 * 2.08 = 8,200 possessions
3.78x
And then you have to factor in an NBA team with six postseason wins is halfway through the second round and might have played more games than that while an NCAA team is a national champion.
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Who will go on from the current roster? Omaha and Milan? Watson seems to have the athletic ability, and I know he's very smart.
