THE END IS NEAR! (LONG)

LutherClone

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Dec 15, 2008
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With all the talk and all the theories out there about the end of times conference realignment, I decided I’d try and wade through the realignment from the BCS conference perspective.

Everyone sees the Big Ten as the lynchpin to the entire realignment cycle. I don’t disagree. However, I do believe that it would be naïve to think that most schools don’t have a contingency plan in place or aren’t forming one right now.


So let’s start! I went of the idea that the Big Televen decides to expand to 16 teams. After trying hard to get Notre Dame, they say to Hell with them and go for Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse in a scr*w you move to the Irish:

Big 16 (old Big Televen)
West
Iowa
Mizzou
Nebby
Illinois

North
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Purdue

Central
Michigan St.
Indiana
Michigan
Pittsburgh

East
Ohio St.
Penn State
Rutgers
Syracuse

By selecting those teams, it gives the conference a nice balance east and west and creates some natural rivalries (IA/Mizzou/Nebby/Illinois would certainly be a passionate division… or a bunch of drunks… your choice.) It also gives the conference great breadth and allows them access to major eastern markets. Built for football, the conference would also field a nice men’s basketball set as well.

The Big Televen’s move starts to force the hands of the other conferences and puts contingency plans in motion. As has been reported, the SEC is looking at its options and a very plausible (to me anyway) scenario has been floated on here. Texas, Oklahoma, OK State and aTm are invited to the SEC. The last two are brought at the beheast of the respective states in order to get Texas and OU. The SEC would move to a sixteen team format just like the Big Televen, dominating the southern US and creating a fantastic football conference with solid basketball (men’s and women’s) with the keys to most major southern markets:

SEC
West
Texas
aTm
Oklahoma
OK State

Delta
Arkansas
LSU
Vandy
Tennessee

Deep South
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

East
Kentucky
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina

Again, the breakdown creates some natural rivalries in each division by grouping state schools together while keeping traditional powers as spread out as possible. Both the East and West divisions would be quite entertaining with OU/UT and Georgia/Florida battling for top dog.

With the departure of half of the Big 12, Colorado would quickly accept a life raft from the Pac 10 as they expand to the Pac 14:

Pac 14
Pacific
Washington
Wazzu
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Stanford
Southern Cal

Mountain
UCLA
UNLV
Arizona
Arizona State
Nevada
Boise State
Idaho

While not as flashy as the SEC and (now) Big 16, the Pac 14 expansion would allow for a championship game while bringing in the Las Vegas and Denver markets along with quality teams like Nevada (bball) and Boise State (football) (Idaho gets drug along because the options are limited and it doesn’t sound the like the Pac 10 is real interested in Utah/BYU). The poor stepsister of the conference becomes Idaho, but with time and proper revenue sharing, things could (and should) improve.

Seeing the epic destruction of the Big 12, former Big East schools start to sweat. South Florida would want no part of a juxtaposed conference that leaves in the isolated post of the conference. Instead, South Florida jumps ship to the ACC which would invite West Virginia as well (regional rival, great teams, etc). To keep up with its SEC and Big 16 neighbors, the ACC pulls up UCF and Southern Miss from mid major conferences to form a 16 team conference of its own (remember, the Big East did this the last time around by plucking C-USA to pieces):

ACC
West
Southern Miss
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson

Costal
NC State
Wake
North Carolina
Duke

Southern
Miami
Central Florida
South Florida
Boston College

Atlantic
Maryland
Va Tech
Virginia
West Virginia


With conference realignment coming hot and fast, certain schools are left in the cold. Most importantly, Notre Dame. After rebuffing the Big Televen and watching the SEC pluck the best of the Big 12 to fill its line up, Notre Dame finds itself in a less than desirable situation. Remaining independent is no longer a viable option with the Big 16 and Pac 14 filling in what had once been much of the Irish’s schedule. Observing the field, Notre Dame sees 5 former Big 12 schools, UCONN, Cincy and Louisville from the Big East and a boat load of mid major teams from conferences that are quickly finding themselves snacks for the “BCS.â€

What forms from the ashes of the Big 12 and East is:

Old Big 12/ Big East (we’ll call it the National Conference for now)
North
UCONN
Cincinnati
Louisville
Iowa State
Notre Dame
Air Force
Memphis

South
KU
K State
Baylor
Texas Tech
Tulsa
Utah
BYU

By pulling in Memphis, Utah, Tulsa, and BYU, the “National Conference†(read: Notre Dame) makes the best of the situation. The conference is by no means the football powerhouse, Texas, BYU, Utah, Notre Dame are no football slouches. K State, ISU, Louisville and the rest are an obvious second tier but likely more competitive in such a conference. Very importantly, Notre Dame would likely be ok with the conference because it becomes the “driving†school. A conference football title (and the auto BCS slot) would not only be attainable for the Irish every year, but it would be expected. Where the Old Big 8 had both OU and Nebby, the new conference would likely see Notre Dame and Cincy rise to the top creating a stronger football north than south (shocking!). While I doubt that the revenue sharing would be great, beggars certainly can’t be choosers and the former Big 12 schools would happily go along with the plan. The conference would have a hefty regional footprint with East Coast, Rust Belt, Chicago, OKC, KC and Salt Lake markets plus Notre Dame and BYU’s national followings. A deal with the Pac 14 could still be formed to make an extremely powerful network that would dwarf the Big 16 in regional coverage.

While football would be less that desirable, a powerful basketball conference. UCONN, Cincy, Louisville, Notre Dame, Memphi, KU, Iowa State, Utah, and BYU all bring at least some basketball prowess to the court. Much like the current Big East, The “National Conference†would be built on a basketball foundation.



While it’s fun to make up scenario’s such as this Apocalypse Now idea, I doubt it will go down exactly like this. I do think this would benefit Iowa State, bumping them into the top half of a BCS conference rather than the bottom while maintaining regional rivalries against BCS schools (read: as little MWC as possible). This doesn’t address the fallout for the MWC, MAC, C-USA etc. There would be a mess at the bottom like all domino effects. I could see the non football Big East schools (Marquette, De Paul, Georgetown, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall, and Villinova) keeping the name and pulling in some A10 or CUSA schools to make their own all basketball conference. The fallout from this is endless!

Just my 2 cents. I’m sure I have some things way off, but it’s just an idea. Have fun!
 

DaddyMac

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
14,071
451
83
I didn't really read all that... just skimmed to ISU.

Isn't the geography of that a bit much?

UConn, Cinci, ISU, Air Force? That's spanning maybe 2000 miles?

Sure, football runs the show and has the coin. What about all the minor sports?
 

clonedude

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2006
31,056
26,335
113
With all the talk and all the theories out there about the end of times conference realignment, I decided I’d try and wade through the realignment from the BCS conference perspective.

Everyone sees the Big Ten as the lynchpin to the entire realignment cycle. I don’t disagree. However, I do believe that it would be naïve to think that most schools don’t have a contingency plan in place or aren’t forming one right now.

So let’s start! I went of the idea that the Big Televen decides to expand to 16 teams. After trying hard to get Notre Dame, they say to Hell with them and go for Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, Pitt and Syracuse in a scr*w you move to the Irish:

Big 16 (old Big Televen)
West
Iowa
Mizzou
Nebby
Illinois

North
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Purdue

Central
Michigan St.
Indiana
Michigan
Pittsburgh

East
Ohio St.
Penn State
Rutgers
Syracuse

By selecting those teams, it gives the conference a nice balance east and west and creates some natural rivalries (IA/Mizzou/Nebby/Illinois would certainly be a passionate division… or a bunch of drunks… your choice.) It also gives the conference great breadth and allows them access to major eastern markets. Built for football, the conference would also field a nice men’s basketball set as well.

The Big Televen’s move starts to force the hands of the other conferences and puts contingency plans in motion. As has been reported, the SEC is looking at its options and a very plausible (to me anyway) scenario has been floated on here. Texas, Oklahoma, OK State and aTm are invited to the SEC. The last two are brought at the beheast of the respective states in order to get Texas and OU. The SEC would move to a sixteen team format just like the Big Televen, dominating the southern US and creating a fantastic football conference with solid basketball (men’s and women’s) with the keys to most major southern markets:

SEC
West
Texas
aTm
Oklahoma
OK State

Delta
Arkansas
LSU
Vandy
Tennessee

Deep South
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

East
Kentucky
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina

Again, the breakdown creates some natural rivalries in each division by grouping state schools together while keeping traditional powers as spread out as possible. Both the East and West divisions would be quite entertaining with OU/UT and Georgia/Florida battling for top dog.

With the departure of half of the Big 12, Colorado would quickly accept a life raft from the Pac 10 as they expand to the Pac 14:

Pac 14
Pacific
Washington
Wazzu
Oregon
Oregon State
California
Stanford
Southern Cal

Mountain
UCLA
UNLV
Arizona
Arizona State
Nevada
Boise State
Idaho

While not as flashy as the SEC and (now) Big 16, the Pac 14 expansion would allow for a championship game while bringing in the Las Vegas and Denver markets along with quality teams like Nevada (bball) and Boise State (football) (Idaho gets drug along because the options are limited and it doesn’t sound the like the Pac 10 is real interested in Utah/BYU). The poor stepsister of the conference becomes Idaho, but with time and proper revenue sharing, things could (and should) improve.

Seeing the epic destruction of the Big 12, former Big East schools start to sweat. South Florida would want no part of a juxtaposed conference that leaves in the isolated post of the conference. Instead, South Florida jumps ship to the ACC which would invite West Virginia as well (regional rival, great teams, etc). To keep up with its SEC and Big 16 neighbors, the ACC pulls up UCF and Southern Miss from mid major conferences to form a 16 team conference of its own (remember, the Big East did this the last time around by plucking C-USA to pieces):

ACC
West
Southern Miss
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson

Costal
NC State
Wake
North Carolina
Duke

Southern
Miami
Central Florida
South Florida
Boston College

Atlantic
Maryland
Va Tech
Virginia
West Virginia


With conference realignment coming hot and fast, certain schools are left in the cold. Most importantly, Notre Dame. After rebuffing the Big Televen and watching the SEC pluck the best of the Big 12 to fill its line up, Notre Dame finds itself in a less than desirable situation. Remaining independent is no longer a viable option with the Big 16 and Pac 14 filling in what had once been much of the Irish’s schedule. Observing the field, Notre Dame sees 5 former Big 12 schools, UCONN, Cincy and Louisville from the Big East and a boat load of mid major teams from conferences that are quickly finding themselves snacks for the “BCS.â€

What forms from the ashes of the Big 12 and East is:

Old Big 12/ Big East (we’ll call it the National Conference for now)
North
UCONN
Cincinnati
Louisville
Iowa State
Notre Dame
Air Force
Memphis

South
KU
K State
Baylor
Texas Tech
Tulsa
Utah
BYU

By pulling in Memphis, Utah, Tulsa, and BYU, the “National Conference†(read: Notre Dame) makes the best of the situation. The conference is by no means the football powerhouse, Texas, BYU, Utah, Notre Dame are no football slouches. K State, ISU, Louisville and the rest are an obvious second tier but likely more competitive in such a conference. Very importantly, Notre Dame would likely be ok with the conference because it becomes the “driving†school. A conference football title (and the auto BCS slot) would not only be attainable for the Irish every year, but it would be expected. Where the Old Big 8 had both OU and Nebby, the new conference would likely see Notre Dame and Cincy rise to the top creating a stronger football north than south (shocking!). While I doubt that the revenue sharing would be great, beggars certainly can’t be choosers and the former Big 12 schools would happily go along with the plan. The conference would have a hefty regional footprint with East Coast, Rust Belt, Chicago, OKC, KC and Salt Lake markets plus Notre Dame and BYU’s national followings. A deal with the Pac 14 could still be formed to make an extremely powerful network that would dwarf the Big 16 in regional coverage.

While football would be less that desirable, a powerful basketball conference. UCONN, Cincy, Louisville, Notre Dame, Memphi, KU, Iowa State, Utah, and BYU all bring at least some basketball prowess to the court. Much like the current Big East, The “National Conference†would be built on a basketball foundation.



While it’s fun to make up scenario’s such as this Apocalypse Now idea, I doubt it will go down exactly like this. I do think this would benefit Iowa State, bumping them into the top half of a BCS conference rather than the bottom while maintaining regional rivalries against BCS schools (read: as little MWC as possible). This doesn’t address the fallout for the MWC, MAC, C-USA etc. There would be a mess at the bottom like all domino effects. I could see the non football Big East schools (Marquette, De Paul, Georgetown, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall, and Villinova) keeping the name and pulling in some A10 or CUSA schools to make their own all basketball conference. The fallout from this is endless!

Just my 2 cents. I’m sure I have some things way off, but it’s just an idea. Have fun!

That's pretty interesting, until you get to the last conference. No way ND ends up in a horrible conference like that IMO.

And I think the Big 10 would take UCONN over Syracuse.
 

ia8manfan

Active Member
Apr 12, 2006
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Again we are forgetting about the academics of it all. No Big 12 team, especially aTm and UT, will ever go to the SEC because of the academic standards there.
 

Al_4_State

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I didn't really read all that... just skimmed to ISU.

Isn't the geography of that a bit much?

UConn, Cinci, ISU, Air Force? That's spanning maybe 2000 miles?

Sure, football runs the show and has the coin. What about all the minor sports?

Some of the current ideas surrounding the Big 10 are just as geographically ridiculous.

Lincoln to Piscataway isn't much worse than Colo Springs to Hartford.
 

clonedude

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2006
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Your new National Conference would HAVE to go with East and West divisions instead of North and South. Put ND, UCONN ( or Syracuse ), Cincy, Louisville, etc out east, and ISU and others out west.
 

LutherClone

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2008
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Phoenix, AZ
Your new National Conference would HAVE to go with East and West divisions instead of North and South. Put ND, UCONN ( or Syracuse ), Cincy, Louisville, etc out east, and ISU and others out west.

That's good rationale. I was trying to balance the football teams out a little bit ,but that works just as well.
 

isuno1fan

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2006
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Clive, Iowa
Here you go:

ND to B10/11 ---> Done
Utah to P10 ---> Done
B12 no changes
SEC no changes
ACC no changes
Big East loses ND in non FB sports and doesn't pick up a replacement

Now stop all this nonsense about 16 team mega conferences, ISU being on an island, yada yada yada...not happening people.
 

cyguytillidie

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Feb 9, 2010
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Des Moines
I think the ACC would take UCONN over Southern Miss. Also for the ACC, BC is in Boston so I doubt they would like being in the Southern Division. We would probably take TCU before Tulsa or Air Force or as a replacement for UCONN. Switch it to East/ West in the Big 12. Pac-10 I think would take Gonzaga (not sure if they have a football team) before Idaho. Other than that I'd say you just about nailed it.
If the Big 12 turns out the way you just explained, we would get raped in basketball. Having to play Memphis, Louisville, ND, and Cincy twice a year would really f us. Not to mention we would still have to play KU, KSU, BYU, and Baylor. I think it would be safe to say we would no longer be a basketball school.
 
Last edited:

LutherClone

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2008
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Phoenix, AZ
Here you go:

ND to B10/11 ---> Done
Utah to P10 ---> Done
B12 no changes
SEC no changes
ACC no changes
Big East loses ND in non FB sports and doesn't pick up a replacement

Now stop all this nonsense about 16 team mega conferences, ISU being on an island, yada yada yada...not happening people.

Utah to Pac 10 does nothing to help them form a playoff in football. They would need another.

And Notre Dame will not join a conference unless they have to. The only way they have to is if conferences align them out of usefulness and they only way conferences start to realign is if the Big Televen starts the business. I just don't see the Irish playing ball with the boys in Chicago. They want the driver's seat.
 

isuno1fan

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2006
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Clive, Iowa
Utah to Pac 10 does nothing to help them form a playoff in football. They would need another.

And Notre Dame will not join a conference unless they have to. The only way they have to is if conferences align them out of usefulness and they only way conferences start to realign is if the Big Televen starts the business. I just don't see the Irish playing ball with the boys in Chicago. They want the driver's seat.

My bad on the Pac 10...throw BYU or Boise in there then.

Also, Big East is telling ND all in or out. ND will need a conference for all the non-FB sports and they won't join the Big East for FB so B10 it is.

There...simple enough?
 

LutherClone

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,169
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Phoenix, AZ
My bad on the Pac 10...throw BYU or Boise in there then.

Also, Big East is telling ND all in or out. ND will need a conference for all the non-FB sports and they won't join the Big East for FB so B10 it is.

There...simple enough?

The Big East hasn't told ND that... a few coaches have asked the conference to do so, but that's far from actually telling ND to get in or out.
 

Tedcyclone

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2009
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Here you go:

ND to B10/11 ---> Done
Utah to P10 ---> Done
B12 no changes
SEC no changes
ACC no changes
Big East loses ND in non FB sports and doesn't pick up a replacement

Now stop all this nonsense about 16 team mega conferences, ISU being on an island, yada yada yada...not happening people.

werent you the one that said no way fred hoiberg would be hired or was it that mcdermot wouldnt get the bluejay job? i know it was one or the other... so
 

Clonefan94

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Oct 18, 2006
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One thing I read, and it's killing me that I can't find it now. IT was a piece done by a local guy here in Chicago. He was dismissing a lot of the expansion to 16 teams as nonsense as well. Basically because you have to buy your way in. It's not a "Here you go, welcome to our pile of cash, please take some." He was saying that the conference as it is now are basically the Executive board, with all the shares. You don't just come in and are handed a pile of cash. From what he was saying, you'd have to put up a lot of cash to get in. To appease those teams already sitting on the pile of cash.

I don't know how true it is, what he was saying, but it made sense to some extent. And I could easily see UT and Nebby getting an IOU since they already have a nice pile of cash for themselves. What they put in would be more beneficial then if they didn't have them. Now a team like Mizzou, I'm not so sure.

In the end, it's all speculation, let's not forget that people. I hear about this stuff pretty regularly here and from what I gather, it's still more of a looking into expansion than a "We want a power conference, let's fill it now."

I have to admit though, I'm still a little baffled by the Big XII's lack of foresight here on any issue pertaining to a Big XII network or even revenue sharing. What's sad, is the teams that we helped out in the forming of the big XII will probably be the ones screwing us in the end of this if this deal goes through.
 

isuno1fan

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2006
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Clive, Iowa
Listen folks...all I'm saying is there aren't going to be dozens of teams moving all over the place and giant 16 team mega conferences. Won't happen. The schools won't vote in favor of it...too much tradition at stake. WILL NOT HAPPEN. Reasonable people understand this. You are just buying into the media hype as they want you to.

The B10/11 covets ND. They will get ND IMO. Even if they don't there isn't going to be mass movement of schools. All the speculation/analysis, this and that is ridiculous.
 

isuno1fan

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2006
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Clive, Iowa
werent you the one that said no way fred hoiberg would be hired or was it that mcdermot wouldnt get the bluejay job? i know it was one or the other... so

It was neither. I said HB would be a Cyclone and I was wrong.

I did say no way in heck LE or Gillespie would get the BB job nor would JP even consider them.