Time for a Real Discussion About Caitlin Clark

[Cyinthenorth]

I think it's pretty crazy that she played her last college basketball game less than a month ago and since that point she has gotten drafted, practiced with her team, and only played in 2 preseason games before the regular season. Leading scorer in her debut? Yeah, I think that's pretty solid.

The turn around these WNBA rookies have from their last college game to first pro game is pretty wild. NFL rookie get over 4 months prior to their first game. Same for NBA rookies drafted in late June and then don't play their first real NBA game until late October. Baseball is a little more similar to the WNBA in that players go straight from their last collegiate game to the draft and then to their minor league clubs season all probably within weeks, but they aren't playing on the biggest stage until much later obviously.

 

[Cloned4Life]

It is possible that Caitlin is just a really good offensive player with elite instincts, but not the g.o.a.t? Seems like that has been the case to me for awhile now. I spent more time watching her this year than in years past and it seems like there are other players in the women's game that might actually be better complete players. Better athletes, defenders etc. and can still score and pass the ball. Certainly better rebounders. I was not surprised to see she had 0 rebounds last night. Most of her rebounds in college seemed like chasing down shots that missed long and I don't think I've ever seen a player gather more rebounds without having to jump for the ball.

This has always been the case. Really, REALLY good offensive player with good instincts and great range. Volume shooter. Not an elite all-around “player” and never has attempted to be. And the GOAT stuff is mind-boggling, disingenuous, and a mountain of virtue signaling. Much of it fueled by the time in history we live in.

 

[cyclone13]

Rarely do you see a rookie in any sport receive so much defensive attention.

You could see Connecticut chase her all over the court. Tells you how good they think she is.

Well, this is a true test: good as advertised or media-hyped.
She is a very good player but WNBA is a beast. I posted couple of times that she can't continue doing her chicken wings and not getting called by the ref and/or keep on complaining for calls or Taurasi, Sophie Chambers, Kelsey Plum, etc will eat her alive.

 

[cyclone13]

She's not going to carry a bad team to a championship, players will just guard her 30 ft from the basket, she will need other players that can score and contribute.

In every level before now it's just easier because most of the players she played against just aren't that good, in the WNBA everyone is good. Kelsey Plum was an elite scorer in college and it took her years to become an All-Star.

Clark just can't turn it over 10 times a game on the way to whatever she becomes, she needs to be on the court to do it and she'll get benched eventually if she's just a turnover machine.

Yup, I posted in another post that Bill Laimbeer molded her to be an excellent defensive player. She is much more than a shooter now: an complete elite player.

 

[Saul_T]

Yeah that's a good point, I don't think she's in danger of getting benched in the short term by any means. It's also been one game, like @Saul_T said it's been a whirlwind from college to pro debut in hardly any time at all, it'll be interesting to see where it shakes out in like 10 games.

It's taken Sabrina Ionescu 4-5 seasons to really establish herself and it wouldn't surprise me if there's an adjustment period for Caitlin Clark as well.

 

[Jer]

The "out of sight" comment...I wish! Living in the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City corridor right now the topic is hard to avoid...she is talked about constantly!

Yeah, I still see every other headline on the KCCI apps about her but keep scrolling right past it.

 

[Saul_T]

the GOAT stuff is mind-boggling

Why?
She is the greatest college scorer of all time.
She is the greatest college passer of all time.
She is the greatest 3 point college shooter of all time.

Those are real, tangible statistics. You may not like her or her style of play, but her greatness is undeniable.

 

[Cyhig]

Why?
She is the greatest college scorer of all time.
She is the greatest college passer of all time.
She is the greatest 3 point college shooter of all time.

Those are real, tangible statistics. You may not like her or her style of play, but her greatness is undeniable.

She also is the collegiate leader in turnovers (and set the record for most turnovers in a wnba debut) and is a defensive liability. A "GOAT" is strong in all aspects of the game, not just certain parts of the game. Also, a "GOAT" is given to a person with a long track record at the professional level of sustained success and dominance. Nobody should be calling CC the "GOAT" right now

 

[cytor]

She also is the collegiate leader in turnovers (and set the record for most turnovers in a wnba debut) and is a defensive liability. A "GOAT" is strong in all aspects of the game, not just certain parts of the game. Also, a "GOAT" is given to a person with a long track record at the professional level of sustained success and dominance. Nobody should be calling CC the "GOAT" right now

You forgot to add in that CC played in the weak Big 10, stayed in the game late when they were ahead by 40, and led the league in shot attempts.

 

[3TrueFans]

She also is the collegiate leader in turnovers (and set the record for most turnovers in a wnba debut) and is a defensive liability. A "GOAT" is strong in all aspects of the game, not just certain parts of the game. Also, a "GOAT" is given to a person with a long track record at the professional level of sustained success and dominance. Nobody should be calling CC the "GOAT" right now

She does need to take better care of the ball, but If you look at the NBA leader in TOs for a given year you'll see some names of some all time greats.

 

[Saul_T]

She does need to take better care of the ball, but If you look at the NBA leader in TOs for a given year you'll see some names of some all time greats.

She was picking up her dribble as soon as she got covered last night and a lot of her turnovers were from making stupid passes to get out of the trap. I'm not sure if it was nerves, getting to know her teammates and the system, getting used to the speed of the game or what was going on. I'm not sure how many teams are going to double her as soon as she crosses half court because the Fever should have an offensive fix for that before their next game.

 

[Cyhig]

She does need to take better care of the ball, but If you look at the NBA leader in TOs for a given year you'll see some names of some all time greats.

We've been over this. The all time NBA leaders in turnovers are there largely because of their longevity. One will rack up a lot more turnovers when they play 20+ years in the league. A better measuring point is turnovers per game or even assist/turnover. Last time I checked, 10 turnovers/game and a 0.30 assist to turnover ratio is no where near any of those "all time greats". Obviously we only have one game for a data point, and these stats will get better. But one simply can't look at total number of turnovers over a career. That's a poor metric to try to use to validate any point as it only proves the player had longevity

 

[Saul_T]

She also is the collegiate leader in turnovers (and set the record for most turnovers in a wnba debut) and is a defensive liability.

Here are the leading all time interception throwers:
Favre
Blanda
Tarkenton
Manning
Marino

All time NBA turnover leaders:
Lebron James
Russell Westbrook
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Kobe Bryant

Your argument is ****.

 

[Gonzo]

We've been over this. The all time NBA leaders in turnovers are there largely because of their longevity. One will rack up a lot more turnovers when they play 20+ years in the league. A better measuring point is turnovers per game or even assist/turnover. Last time I checked, 10 turnovers/game and a 0.30 assist to turnover ratio is no where near any of those "all time greats". Obviously we only have one game for a data point, and these stats will get better. But one simply can't look at total number of turnovers over a career. That's a poor metric to try to use to validate any point as it only proves the player had longevity

He said "for a given year" not "over a career." Lol.

In 2023 the top-10 in turnovers for the season included names like Doncic, Wemby, Giannis, Lebron, Durant...

 

[Cyinthenorth]

She was picking up her dribble as soon as she got covered last night and a lot of her turnovers were from making stupid passes to get out of the trap. I'm not sure if it was nerves, getting to know her teammates and the system, getting used to the speed of the game or what was going on. I'm not sure how many teams are going to double her as soon as she crosses half court because the Fever should have an offensive fix for that before their next game.

I am guessing too, that some of her teammates may have similar opinions of her that some of these stronger personalities of the women's game have. And then there's the race thing that's always been a bit weird to me, despite the fact I am not a fan nor advocate of CC. There could be some locker room toxicity if one or two of her teammates happen to not be fond of her or are otherwise jealous of the attention she has garnered.

 

[3TrueFans]

We've been over this. The all time NBA leaders in turnovers are there largely because of their longevity. One will rack up a lot more turnovers when they play 20+ years in the league. A better measuring point is turnovers per game or even assist/turnover. Last time I checked, 10 turnovers/game and a 0.30 assist to turnover ratio is no where near any of those "all time greats". Obviously we only have one game for a data point, and these stats will get better. But one simply can't look at total number of turnovers over a career. That's a poor metric to try to use to validate any point as it only proves the player had longevity

I said in a given year.

 

[nfrine]

It is possible that Caitlin is just a really good offensive player with elite instincts, but not the g.o.a.t? Seems like that has been the case to me for awhile now. I spent more time watching her this year than in years past and it seems like there are other players in the women's game that might actually be better complete players. Better athletes, defenders etc. and can still score and pass the ball. Certainly better rebounders. I was not surprised to see she had 0 rebounds last night. Most of her rebounds in college seemed like chasing down shots that missed long and I don't think I've ever seen a player gather more rebounds without having to jump for the ball.

Keith Murphy would like a word with you...

 

[ClubCy]

Nothing says “I don’t care about CC” more than nitpicking every single stat line in every single one of her games.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Why?
She is the greatest college scorer of all time.
She is the greatest college passer of all time.
She is the greatest 3 point college shooter of all time.

Those are real, tangible statistics. You may not like her or her style of play, but her greatness is undeniable.

Need to add that she is great at f-bombs, not telling the truth, faking injuries, and the most times a parent told her to shut up.

 

[bozclone]

The Fever are in an interesting predicament. I am not sure they could afford to bench her no matter how out of control she plays or inefficiently she gets her buckets. Fans are still lining up and tuning in (not me, but I assume this is the case) to watch her. They don't care about the Aaliyeah Boston or the Fever as a whole, they want to watch CC. She would have to underperform over an extended stretch - 7 or 8 games probably - for the buzz to go down any.

I watched parts of the game. I watched before the Pacers started and when the Pacers went to commercial breaks. CC didn't look like a non starter. She struggled some, but the Fever did not look like a very good team overall. She was as good as any Fever player in my opinion. The Fever should have talent given the high draft picks they have had over the last three years, but they did not look good last night. The WNBA is going to lose some momentum if the Fever are a bad team this year. The game was not fun to watch at all in my opinion.