USL to Vote on Relegation

[WooBadger18]

All of the downsides of pro/rel come from the billionaire owner side. I really don't see any downsides for the everyday fan. More teams get a chance to move up in the world (and down making the ending of the season for the bottom tier teams much more exciting), the owners have a stake in the team performing well and the culture of every medium sized city having a team would be amazing. I would jump on a Des Moines based soccer team in a heart beat, it's long due that we have a professional team owned by Iowans, not the farm teams we have now that literally no one cares wins or loses.

I think you’re understating the risks a bit. Your club or league going under hurts the fans. Also, I’m not sure we know how effective things like a salary cap would be in a pro/rel league, so a small number of teams may dominate the league with no one else having a realistic chance. That’s not good for the fans.

I’ve already said I’d be excited for this to pass, so I think the risks of USL implementing it are worth it, but it’s not like there are no risks for the fans.

Edit: one other thing to keep in mind, sports leagues are a zero sum game. So I’m not sure you can really justify it by saying “bad owners get relegated” because even with everyone being perfect owners someone is getting relegated

Then why not just go to a 5th grade YMCA league game?

If folks really don't care, that says a lot about the league.

Because they still want to watch professional soccer. And pretty much everyone has their limit. My point is just that if you’re already willing to be a fan of a USL championship team (so a team not in the top league) you’re more likely going to be a fan if they are a USL league 1 team.

 

[cyfanbr]

I think you’re understating the risks a bit. Your club or league going under hurts the fans. Also, I’m not sure we know how effective things like a salary cap would be in a pro/rel league, so a small number of teams may dominate the league with no one else having a realistic chance. That’s not good for the fans.

I’ve already said I’d be excited for this to pass, so I think the risks of USL implementing it are worth it, but it’s not like there are no risks for the fans.

Edit: one other thing to keep in mind, sports leagues are a zero sum game. So I’m not sure you can really justify it by saying “bad owners get relegated” because even with everyone being perfect owners someone is getting relegated


Because they still want to watch professional soccer. And pretty much everyone has their limit. My point is just that if you’re already willing to be a fan of a USL championship team (so a team not in the top league) you’re more likely going to be a fan if they are a USL league 1 team.

Yea, I really think we are very apart on our takes. I think not having relegation is what hurts a league as half way through a season half of the teams and fans can stop caring about the games, because they have no chance of winning anything. Sure go ahead and tank, so that you can destroy the career prospects of whomever will be the #1 draft pick. At least in a relegation system everyone is playing for something. Every game matters.

 

[spk123]

Agree to disagree. There is a contingent of soccer fans that are obsessed with relegation but ultimately I think it's all negative. If I were an owner I'd never start a team in a league with relegation. I'd rather have a hard salary cap and keep teams on a level playing field there.

Relegation hasn't helped IMO leagues like Bundesliga and Ligue 1, where 1 team absolutely dominates. Those aren't competitive leagues either.

I take a small issue with calling the Bundesliga an uncompetitive league... I realize that's kind of a tough argument to make on its face given how many titles in a row Bayern have won, but Borussia Dortmund were a last day choke job away from winning the title this season. And clubs like Eintracht Frankfurt have seen recent European success, RB Leipzig (for all of their other issues) in the Pokal, even a relative minnow like Union Berlin qualifying for the UCL this season. The relegation fights are always pretty crazy, with huge, historical clubs like Schalke, HSV, Hertha, Stuttgart, Bremen all recently involved - for my money it might be the most entertaining big league top to bottom in Europe even despite Bayern's dominance!

A lot of that though has to do with the unique fan culture that has been established in Germany that is pretty different from England or Spain, for example. For me, it's hard to say that a league isn't healthy when it consistently has the highest attendance of any top European league (and the 2. Bundesliga gets great crowds for a second tier, and even some 3. Liga and Regionalliga clubs draw huge crowds too), cheap tickets and beer, majority member-owned clubs with no billionaire owners (obviously with some problematic loopholes for Leipzig/Hoffenheim, as well as Leverkusen/Wolfsburg to a lesser extent)... I actually think the Bundesliga should serve as a model for more leagues going forward.

 

[WooBadger18]

I take a small issue with calling the Bundesliga an uncompetitive league... I realize that's kind of a tough argument to make on its face given how many titles in a row Bayern have won, but Borussia Dortmund were a last day choke job away from winning the title this season. And clubs like Eintracht Frankfurt have seen recent European success, RB Leipzig (for all of their other issues) in the Pokal, even a relative minnow like Union Berlin qualifying for the UCL this season. The relegation fights are always pretty crazy, with huge, historical clubs like Schalke, HSV, Hertha, Stuttgart, Bremen all recently involved - for my money it might be the most entertaining big league top to bottom in Europe even despite Bayern's dominance!

A lot of that though has to do with the unique fan culture that has been established in Germany that is pretty different from England or Spain, for example. For me, it's hard to say that a league isn't healthy when it consistently has the highest attendance of any top European league (and the 2. Bundesliga gets great crowds for a second tier, and even some 3. Liga and Regionalliga clubs draw huge crowds too), cheap tickets and beer, majority member-owned clubs with no billionaire owners (obviously with some problematic loopholes for Leipzig/Hoffenheim, as well as Leverkusen/Wolfsburg to a lesser extent)... I actually think the Bundesliga should serve as a model for more leagues going forward.

Yeah, I follow the Bundesliga more than the EPL and think it can be really competitive and entertaining and I love the 50% + 1 rule. It just is difficult when Bayern is so dominant.

That being said, the EPL is heading that way with Man City, and even before Man City it wasn’t like very many teams had a realistic opportunity to win

 

[LivntheCyLife]

I can see the benefits for minor leagues.

And there's some positives with pro/rel in the top league but I think the negatives outweigh them. Getting sent down can be a real financial killer and I think you end up with too much of the up and down clubs with no chance to compete for the top clubs. Plus teams often seem more conservative in putting together a team just to survive relegation.

I've always wondered if it would work to have the non-playoff teams with the best record in the last third of the season have the best draft pick. Giving those teams more to play for and have them trying to build momentum for the next season.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Yeah, I follow the Bundesliga more than the EPL and think it can be really competitive and entertaining and I love the 50% + 1 rule. It just is difficult when Bayern is so dominant.

That being said, the EPL is heading that way with Man City, and even before Man City it wasn’t like very many teams had a realistic opportunity to win

I think the key is like with college sports different teams have different goals for a year. Some teams are focused on winning their league. Some might put more of their effort into a domestic cup. Others might focus on a continental competition. Then you have those fighting not to get relegated.

For example Iowa State basketball this season isn’t winning a National title in all likelihood. Our goal is winning the Big 12 and like a sweet sixteen. The season isn’t over once I realize we can’t win the National title.

 

[WooBadger18]

Yea, I really think we are very apart on our takes. I think not having relegation is what hurts a league as half way through a season half of the teams and fans can stop caring about the games, because they have no chance of winning anything. Sure go ahead and tank, so that you can destroy the career prospects of whomever will be the #1 draft pick. At least in a relegation system everyone is playing for something. Every game matters.

I agree that we are. I disagree that fans stop caring once they are eliminated from playoff contention. Also leagues with pro/eel still have “meaningless” games because there are teams who are safe from relegation but not in contention for the title/tournament places

I think the key is like with college sports different teams have different goals for a year. Some teams are focused on winning their league. Some might put more of their effort into a domestic cup. Others might focus on a continental competition. Then you have those fighting not to get relegated.

For example Iowa State basketball this season isn’t winning a National title in all likelihood. Our goal is winning the Big 12 and like a sweet sixteen. The season isn’t over once I realize we can’t win the National title.

Sure, I would just say that applies regardless of whether the league is closed or not.

And comparison between the Bundesliga and EPL had more to do with the EPL stans who love how “competitive” the EPL is and then trash the Bundesliga

 

[cyfanbr]

I agree that we are. I disagree that fans stop caring once they are eliminated from playoff contention. Also leagues with pro/eel still have “meaningless” games because there are teams who are safe from relegation but not in contention for the title/tournament places

In most leagues teams are still competing for spots on their continental cups if they are safe from relegation, but have no change of winning the league. So, the meaningless games are few, but yes they do happen late in the season.